A Vet PG?

[Krapinsky]

I'm not a fan of Deng here. It always seemed like most of his points came from running the break. Not going to happen in Minnesota. I think the $ is better suited elsewhere.

Why can't they play Rose/Salmons/Deng together 1/2/3? Isn't that better than Rose/Hinrich/Salmons as 1/2/3?

[Krapinsky]

Mike Conley.

He's not a vet but I didn't want to start another thread. He's beginning to turn the corner and becoming very intriguing. Any chance we could trade for him? I have a hard time judging his value. I've heard rumblings Memphis thinks Mayo is best suited to play the point long term. Any truth to that? If so, then there may be a scenario where they're at #5 and Harden/Evans/Derozan/Warren/Henderson are the best available. Maybe they would consider trading us Conley then. I wouldn't want to give up the #6 for him though. Foye plus one of Smith/Utah/Boston maybe?

(assuming Foye + Smith)

Conley/Telfair/Collison (BOS)
Evans (MIN)/Brewer
Miller/Gomes
Love/Williams
Jefferson/Mullens (MIA)

Memphs:

Mayo/Foye
Harden/Foye
Gay/Jaric
Smith/Arthur
Gasol/Milicic

[john2jer]

Since we're drafting Rubio with the #2 pick, how about trading Brian Cardinal, Ryan Gomes, and #18 for Luol Deng and #16. Or Cardinal, Cookie, and #18 for Deng and #16.

We move up two spots in the draft, and either way we consolidate some pieces for better quality. The first option means Smith is our back-up PF. The second option means Gomes gets more minutes at PF.

Chicago saves more money with the 2nd option and gets a low post scorer, but the first option gives them a more serviceable replacement for Deng. They also save money by moving down in the draft, considering whoever they take isn't going to get many minutes anyways.

C - Jefferson/Mullens
PF - Love/(Gomes or Smith)
SF - Deng/Miller
SG - Foye/Brewer
PG - Rubio/Telfair

Love, Deng, Foye, Brewer, and Rubio would all look good on the break, getting easy buckets. This allows Jefferson to conserve a little energy sitting back on the defensive end if they can score points off outlets by Love to Rubio for alley oops to Deng and Brewer. The move up in the draft guarantees us Mullens.

[karch34]

I still think Deng could be a very good player for us and I like john2jer's deals. I'd prefer to move Smith as I think Gomes has more value to our team and would still allow us to move Miller if the right deal presented itself. I do think we'd probably have to include a bit more like the Boston or Utah pick since we'd be moving up and getting the best player in the trade, but not sure how bad Chicago wants rid of Deng.

[shrink]

Good point. I agree with what Shrink is saying that help at PG is likely to be available at the MLE. The problem of course is if it comes down to us and another team (especially a contender) we probably lose out. Signing a PG for the MLE would bring one in at a better price than Hinrich, but our salary for the upcoming offseason would be more and more importantly we'd be crunched for roster spots if we keep our draft picks.

You may be right, but I think we're really going to have to wait and see. Here are a few factors that make me optimistic:

1. Only a handful of teams can offer more than the MLE in 2009.

2. In the last few years, fewer and fewer teams have been willing to use their full MLE on a player. In the past, they were tossed around like candy for any guy with some rotation potential, as MIN fans well know.

3. Team will be even less willing to use the MLE since it may cut into their 2010 plans.

Finally, I agree that trading for Hinrich vs using the MLE would reduce our finances for 2009. But in 2010, the $6 mil MLE deal would be cheaper than the $9 mil Hinrich's owed. Personally, if Al is out for the start of 2009-10 and we won't be a play-off contender, I'd be fine with bringing in a PG from the draft, and maximizing our 2010 cap space by not trading OR using the MLE. To me, it comes down to how much value we'd be able to squeeze out of using the MLE in 2009, when money is so scarce and players don't want to retire.

[the_bruce]

Deng has more upside than gomes, but isn't really more productive than him mostly due to injuries. Deng has a mega contract and has been injured a ton the past 2 years.

Deng fits more with Rose and an offense that gets points in transition, and gomes is actually more suited form mn with Big al as his range and jumper at the 3 range is reliable.

[karch34]

You may be right, but I think we're really going to have to wait and see. Here are a few factors that make me optimistic:

1. Only a handful of teams can offer more than the MLE in 2009.

2. In the last few years, fewer and fewer teams have been willing to use their full MLE on a player. In the past, they were tossed around like candy for any guy with some rotation potential, as MIN fans well know.

3. Team will be even less willing to use the MLE since it may cut into their 2010 plans.

Finally, I agree that trading for Hinrich vs using the MLE would reduce our finances for 2009. But in 2010, the $6 mil MLE deal would be cheaper than the $9 mil Hinrich's owed. Personally, if Al is out for the start of 2009-10 and we won't be a play-off contender, I'd be fine with bringing in a PG from the draft, and maximizing our 2010 cap space by not trading OR using the MLE. To me, it comes down to how much value we'd be able to squeeze out of using the MLE in 2009, when money is so scarce and players don't want to retire.

Very good analysis. I can't really disagree with any of it. What makes it all tough is we really have no idea what any team is going to do and how the new financial landscape will affect those moves. You're right that historically we might not have had a chance at certain MLE players, but we might have a chance now if we're one of a small group willing to spend.

[john2jer]

Deng has more upside than gomes, but isn't really more productive than him mostly due to injuries. Deng has a mega contract and has been injured a ton the past 2 years.

Deng fits more with Rose and an offense that gets points in transition, and gomes is actually more suited form mn with Big al as his range and jumper at the 3 range is reliable.

My Deng idea was simply based on if we got Rubio in the draft. Rubio can run a fast paced team. I'm sure coming back from an injury, Jefferson wouldn't mind playing the Shaq role a little while he gets his legs back under him. By Shaq role, I mean sitting back on defense while the offense gets a quick transition bucket.

[shrink]

What makes it all tough is we really have no idea what any team is going to do and how the new financial landscape will affect those moves. You're right that historically we might not have had a chance at certain MLE players, but we might have a chance now if we're one of a small group willing to spend.

I think you're exactly right.

My prediction is that we're going to gasp when we see a few big name free agents sign for the MLE this summer with a non-contender. Those guys won't be ready to retire, and after contractual musical chairs, some of them are only going to find these tiny deals available if they want to stay in the NBA. MIN is in a financial position to be one of those spots, and I think we'll just have to cross our fingers that we end up being one of those teams that gets one of those All Stars on the cheap.

[john2jer]

So what you're saying is Kobe might be available for the MLE? SWEET!

[TrentTuckerForever]

Deng has more upside than gomes, but isn't really more productive than him mostly due to injuries. Deng has a mega contract and has been injured a ton the past 2 years.

Deng fits more with Rose and an offense that gets points in transition, and gomes is actually more suited form mn with Big al as his range and jumper at the 3 range is reliable.[/quote]

My Deng idea was simply based on if we got Rubio in the draft. Rubio can run a fast paced team. I'm sure coming back from an injury, Jefferson wouldn't mind playing the Shaq role a little while he gets his legs back under him. By Shaq role, I mean sitting back on defense while the offense gets a quick transition bucket.

And as someone who's watched a little Bulls basketball... Deng doesn't fit with Rose. At least he didn't this year. Deng is an effective midpost player, very long against 3s or 4s (actually he looks a little like KG on offense.) Rose is most effective with the floor spread, which is why he's looked good with shooters like Gordon, Tim Thomas and Brad Miller around him along with finishers like Tyrus Thomas and Noah.

I'm not saying Deng couldn't learn to play with Rose, but he was a fish out of water this year. Combine that with the injuries and I think he's more likely to be moved than Hinrich.

I really like john2's scenarios as well - drafting Rubio and trading for Deng. Deng has a lot more talent than Gomes and along with Love on the frontline:

Deng
Love
Jefferson

... could play a Utah Jazz-style of beat-down offense in the paint, very similar to Kirilenko, Boozer and Okur. The Wolves wouldn't be an uptempo team necessarily, but I think Deng and Love could contribute enough in the halfcourt (especially if Love continues to develop as a shooter) to make that lineup work.

[Krapinsky]

If we could somehow keep our pick and Miller, I would be up for a Deng/Hinrich package deal. This would allow the Bulls to resign Gordon and go after Bosh in 2010. However, I wouldn't give up a lot to take on that much salary.

Deng/Hinrich for Cardinal/Gomes/Telfair/Madsen/Utah as a base.

Hinrich/Collison
Evans/Miller
Deng/Brewer
Love/Smith
Jefferson/Mullens

[john2jer]

Not that he matters, but you forgot about Foye. I'm sure he could serve as the combo/point guard behind Evans and Hinrich.