Long Term Plan? (merged threads)

[LyricalRico]

I appreciate D-Macs great progress and would love to keep him were there enough slots, but given the tight roster and limited minutes, I'd like to see someone there with more offensive capabilities.[/b]

I don't see how anyone can look at this roster and say, "what we need is more offense." There's more than enough offense here that if D_Mac can contribute well in other areas, his sub-standard offense is more than excusable.

To be fair, he didn't say that he wanted to see "more offense". He said he wanted to see someone with "more offensive capabilities". If I'm interpreting that correctly, it doesn't mean we need another scorer. But we do need a guy who can't be left open while his guy doubles up on one of the Big Three. At least be a threat to make a shot. Even if you don't score, you can at least space out the defense so that the stars can shine. McGuire can't do that consistently (yet).

[dobrojim]

I think he has that capability now. If he's left alone, he can hit a shot.
If you make him try to create for himself, then I'll readily concede
it gets dicey in a hurry. But we're not asking for that. Leave him alone
and he'll step up and consistently hit the 20-22 fter.

What we _really_ want is that 3 pt shot to be reliable. And right
now I assume it's not given that he doesn't look to shoot it except
in desperation situations (where he's actually hit a few).

[fishercob]

Yep, this offseason is huge for McGuire. If he can add/build a reliable three point shot, he becomes a vital role player on this team.

[rl25g]

I was wondering what this board thought about Jamison as an elite 6th man rather than the starting PF especially since he already excelled in that role in Dallas

[pancakes3]

there's definitely hope. at the toronto game the announcers said that calderon was a 60-some percent FT shooter, and now he's hands down THE BEST FT shooter in the league. The question is, how many hrs does Dom want to put in?

I say that Hopla doesn't even think about any other players and works 1-on-1 with DMAC. i mean, who else could use the instruction? Maybe Mcgee, maybe Nick, but neither would affect next season than if DMac becomes a hulked out bruce bowen out there.

The "upside" of our season next year if we play our cards right: 4 all-stars and an all-defense 2nd teamer, ECF, 55 wins, and a SE divisional crown - in what will be the most competitive division in the NBA. Sounds like the pistons 5 years ago.

[hands11]

I was wondering what this board thought about Jamison as an elite 6th man rather than the starting PF especially since he already excelled in that role in Dallas

Most see it as good but not likely to happen next year unless.....

[hands11]

Where I think we have a log jam is at PF. Blatche, McGee, OP, DSong - They are all really PFs
If you add AJ, thats another. Even Etan is really a PF but he is strong enough to hold his own at Center. Kind of like DSong does. So while we have several players who can main the center behind
Haywood - AB, DSong, Etan, and McGee, what we are missing is a legit back up center. I can see McGee doing it in a couple years when he gets stronger, but he won't really be ready next year. I think he can transition to PF first easier then center. He is already a shot blocking force in the post and he has the 3rd hight AFG % on the team behind DSong and AJ.

On the other hand, we can probably combo our way out of the problem.
Example. Etan at center with taller, more mobile players next to him like AB or McGee at PF

I think DSong would work better with Haywood.

I also think we could see more AJ, AB and DSong at SF

Haywood/Etan
DSong/Blatche/McGee
AJ/DMac
CB/NY
GA/Crit

This would be a solid line up for the summer with AB being given the opportunity to show he deserves to start but he has to show more then game, he needs to show maturity and consistency. But as is, DSong would be the better starter next to Haywood. He plays smart, brings it every game, can drives the hoop, pass, and shot accurately out to 15ft. He has to high AFG % .530 on the team and he is a solid vet. He actually would be a better compliment at PF to the starting 4 then DMac at SG . He makes us tough in post in a way AJ doesn't. He adds that Etan toughness but he has a way better BB IQ and shot. If we draft Blake, we will have to figure out what to do until we clear some roster spaces. If your talking sending McGee to D League, that would need to be handled carefully. We can still do the DMac at SG. That is solid also but we won't be forced to do that next year and DMac has time on his side to get better. We can still play that line up when needed though. While DMac showed us a good things this year, he still has a ways to go before he is a seasoned vet like DSong. Maybe another year away.

I say our biggest whole is another accurate shooting SG/PG. Given who we have signed, I guess DS would be a 3 ball specialist who plays ok defense and handle some PG duties. But what we need more generally is more reliable shooting from the outside. Hoppla has his work cut out. Lots of players need to get better in this area.

It's almost a shame that this is the year we are getting a high pick. We really don't need another young player who it's going to take a min of 2 years to figure things out. It's just hard to teach NBA experience. Regardless of the raw talent. It's not a bad thing but for this next year, we could have used time with what we have or just gotten a FA who is already seasoned.

So we all saw that we are hurting at 3 point shooting. While adding GA back helps there, we need more. I'm not saying they all need to jack 3 shots from there all game but they all need to know they can hit it if needed. Come crunch time, we need more options.

That is what everyone needs to work on this off season.

CB - He added this kind of range last year but fell of it this year.
AJ - He has a decent 3 ball if he is set.
DSong should be able to add that range. He is only a foot short as it is.
NY should return a knock down 3 point shooter. He should easily be able to do that.
DMAC - there is hope he can pull it off.
Blatche - there is even some hope he could add a decent long ball.
Crit just needs an outside shot period.

Should be interesting see how the make this transition while we have a potential log jam. Specially if we get Blake. With our current roster, he is actually most useful initially as an Etan replacement until McGee develops. If DS starts the year on IR, this would work.

I would be interested in keep all of them for a little while. I think Blatche would even slide into some minutes at SF and we know DMAC can get mins at SG almost acting as a PG in some respects. McGee would toughen up quick going against the rest of that front line. Etan would give Blake his initial - welcome to the NBA young man pounding which will be different then college.

We could be a tough team with Haywood, Etan, DSong and Blake pounding teams into submission.

Haywood/Etan/Blake
DSong/Blatche/McGee
AJ/DMac
CB/NY
GA/Crit

Then things really get interesting if the younger players continue to establish complete games and mature. We can make a lot of interesting line up with that roster.

[dnk]

I posted this in the trade thread, but I don't know I feel about Butler and Jamison starting on the wings together. I think they'd both be a mite too slow defensively. They could go to work offensively, but they also already do very well for themselves offensively. I think it works in spurts, but should not be our starting or crunch-time lineup.

Also, I don't think "Etan is really a PF but he is strong enough to hold his own at Center." Etan has no range or any offensive capabilities besides bulling people around. Most importantly, he lacks the minimum ballhandling or passing ability one hopes to get from a decent PF. He's a slightly undersized (height-wise) center.

Darius, on the other hand, is almost always outmatched by centers (again, except MAYBE in spurts). He's got great vision as a PF, and as you said, is really willing to work hard and definitely has some range in his game, which is helpful at the 4.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how our young guys improve and mature over the summer. And to see which ones, if any, are traded.

[Dat2U]

Where I think we have a log jam is at PF. Blatche, McGee, OP, DSong - They are all really PFs
....

I also think we could see more AJ, AB and DSong at SF

McGee is as much a PF as Antawn Jamison is a SG. McGee is a pure C. He's longer than most centers. There's nothing about his game that says he's a PF. Maybe you look at that ugly jumper of his with the incredibly slow release and think that qualifies as enough skill to play PF. I disagree. There's no part of his offensive game outside of dunks, alleyoops and garbage buckets that would qualify as NBA quality IMO.

Lets let McGee learn the C position first before trying to throw another position at him. He's already completely lost defensively. Imagine him trying to learn two positions instead of one. It would only slow his development in my opinion.

I love big lineups as much as the next guy but just b/c a player has height and thinks he has a perimeter game doesn't mean he can excel at another position. Sort of like the idea of Blatche playing SF. In my view, what's slowed Blatche's development is the fact the coaching staff initially encouraged his perimeter game and viewed him as some kind of point forward when in reality he couldn't take 3 dribbles without turning the ball over and didn't have the foot speed to keep the slowest of SFs in front of him. Blatche was a skilled PF masquerading as SF. It didn't work and Blatche was less effective b/c he didn't have the handle or quickness to operate away from the basket.

I will agree with you that there's a log jam at the PF position which is why I'd have liked to see Jamison and/or Songaila moved at the trade deadline. Put Blatche at his real positon next to Wood and see what he can do. If were lucky enough to draft Blake Griffin, something will have to be done to alleviate the glut. I suspect Blatche, Pech & Thomas would be the most likely causalities to begin the Griffin era.

Right now were are looking at:

PF Jamison / Songaila / Blatche / Pecherov
C Haywood / McGee / Thomas

Even w/o Griffin we've got 7 bigs. I'm all for cutting Thomas from the roster and opening up minutes for McGee. Blatche could still play C in a pinch and be relatively effective against backups. If we keep Pech, he could an emergency backup at either big spot considering he equally sucks at both.

[hands11]

Making absolute statements doesn't make them right.

McGee is a pure center ?
There is nothing about his game that says PF.

Right there your being ridicules. There are several aspects of the center and powerful forward position that over lap.

Sure you can say Haywood is not a PF. That seems kind of clear. Shaq is a center. Yao is a center.

But Etan was a PF/C that became a C/PF. He actually has some post moves and range to the free throw line. That is, when he has played enough game to get in a grove.

McGee defiantly has the skill and athletics that makes him able to play PF. Actually, like AB, he is better a little away from the rim. Sure he is a little bit of a dork with the ball sometimes but that is experience more then talent. But some PFs play around the rim and some have more range. Hell, you even have some center who have range. Look at Z and Yao. Both a tall tall but still nail 15 plus ft shots.

It's not a clear cut as you try to make it. I depends more on if the combination of the 2 players can effectively defend the post and get some pts. How many points depends on the total team make up.
McGee can really move for his size, so that gives him some range skills in some defensive needs. He is also a better weak side defending right now. So if someone strong like Haywood or Etan or DSong can slow down the other teams center for a sec, McGee would be able to clean it up. Blatche can does this also to a lesser extent. Not that he is bad at it. But McGee is great because of is length and hops.

As for offense. At C or PF his best move is a dunk. At either he can do a baby hook if he learns it. He is going to run the floor from either spot. As for the rest of his offense, he is to raw but as he develops it, I don't see what he learns as being moves you would say only can be done by a center. His main points are in transition and on rebound put backs. That's the same game regardless of him being at C or PF.

Main reason I say PF first and Center second ( just like I did Blatche ) is because if isn't strong enough right now to hold position in the post. That can be a problem at PF also, it's just it's not as much a problem because most PF are lighter and less strong then the centers.

Lets see what be bring to the table next year after a summer of work. I imagine part of what he bring is a better outside shot and at least one post move.

[nate33]

Where I think we have a log jam is at PF. Blatche, McGee, OP, DSong - They are all really PFs
....

I also think we could see more AJ, AB and DSong at SF

McGee is as much a PF as Antawn Jamison is a SG. McGee is a pure C. He's longer than most centers. There's nothing about his game that says he's a PF. Maybe you look at that ugly jumper of his with the incredibly slow release and think that qualifies as enough skill to play PF. I disagree. There's no part of his offensive game outside of dunks, alleyoops and garbage buckets that would qualify as NBA quality IMO.

Lets let McGee learn the C position first before trying to throw another position at him. He's already completely lost defensively. Imagine him trying to learn two positions instead of one. It would only slow his development in my opinion.

I love big lineups as much as the next guy but just b/c a player has height and thinks he has a perimeter game doesn't mean he can excel at another position. Sort of like the idea of Blatche playing SF. In my view, what's slowed Blatche's development is the fact the coaching staff initially encouraged his perimeter game and viewed him as some kind of point forward when in reality he couldn't take 3 dribbles without turning the ball over and didn't have the foot speed to keep the slowest of SFs in front of him. Blatche was a skilled PF masquerading as SF. It didn't work and Blatche was less effective b/c he didn't have the handle or quickness to operate away from the basket.

Preach, brother! Preach!
Can somebody give me an "Amen"?

This talk of McGee being a PF and Blatche being a SF is utter nonsense. Blatche and McGee have ideal size and skill at their natural position. There's no need to make the game unnecessarily difficult for them. Yeah, Blatche has above-average ball skills for a PF, and McGee looks like he may one day have above-average ball skills for a C. Because of that, maybe we can occassionally experiment with a big lineup for short stretches against certain lineups, but it's not a practical option on most nights.

McGee might pan out to be something like Chandler or Camby. We've seen both Chandler and Camby at PF (with Chicago and the Clippers respectively). It was a failure.

Blatche is a homeless man's Kevin Garnett. Garnett played SF during his early days in Minnesota (alongside Gugliotta). It didn't work. He became an elite player once he moved to PF full time.

Stop trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

[LyricalRico]

But Etan was a PF/C that became a C/PF. He actually has some post moves and range to the free throw line. That is, when he has played enough game to get in a grove.

But aren't centers supposed to have post moves and range to the FT line? You act like anybody who can do anything other than dunk is some sort of 4/5 hybrid. That's not the case. It's not what a person CAN do that determines their best position. It's what a person CAN'T do. Etan can't dribble, pass, or defend. So we had to play him at C instead of PF. Caron Butler has the size of a SG but his limitations make him a SF. Going back a bit, Kwame Brown has had to make the switch to C in his post-Wiz career because of his lack of skills - even though he has prototype athleticism for power forwards.

No offense, but you remind me of EJ - a self proclaimed mad scientist who likes to tinker with different combinations because he thinks he sees something that nobody else sees and he'll be hailed a genius if he can make it work. Well, there's a reason why other teams don't do that...it doesn't work. And trying to make a one dimensional player into a jack-of-all trades is how we ended up with Jarvis Hayes playing PF for games on end. Hayes was brought in to be a shooter but EJ had him doing everything but that. And look what happened - he never blossomed into the shooter we drafted him to be. But had EJ simply used him for what we drafted him for, things might have been different.

Same with McGee. Like Dat said, he doesn't even know how to play center yet. He was drafted to change games with his freakish athleticism, a la Tyson Chandler. How much sense do you think it would make for the Hornets to have Chandler working on fade away jumpshots and cross over dribbles in the offseason? Absolutely none. It would be foolish for them to try to make him anything other than what he is. Same with McGee. Let's make him the best center he can possibly be, not make him an average center who can also be an average PF.

[pancakes3]

I have said before that when Blatche and McGee are on the court, DEFENSIVELY, Blatche would be better suited to guard C's and McGee PF, but offensively there is no chance that McGee can play PF consistently. He would be a self-check. No handles, no jumper, no spin moves, no runner, no offense whatsoever. He's relegated to putbacks, alley-oops, and the occasional up and under. The trouble comes when he tries to take his catapult-action fadeaway and that averaged out with garbage gimme buckets the kid is shooting under .500. Every power forward in the league can drain the 18 footer and McGee's range stops just short of 10 (note the 67% FT).

I do agree with hands in that we have a hole in SG and that our 3 point % is anemic, but the answer isn't forcing our forwards to extend their range collectively. It's to have a credible 3 point threat at the 2guard position so he can generate space for our talented forwards slice, dice, and flip shot their way to 20+ppg. The purpose of having 3 point threats is to open up the court by eliminating lane congestion. This would be counterproductive if Jamison, Butler, and Arenas were their own 3 point threats. Our shooting guard needs to be a lock down defender, and 3 point specialist to best compliment our roster - not a scoring dynamo. This is why DMac is a better fit at starting 2-guard and NY provides offense off the bench when Gil is taking a breather.

So in conclusion?
Let the players play their natural positions - McGee at C, Butler at SF, AJ at PF.
DMac needs to shoot a million 3's this summer.
Songaila should not be our starting PF.

[hands11]

But Etan was a PF/C that became a C/PF. He actually has some post moves and range to the free throw line. That is, when he has played enough game to get in a grove.

But aren't centers supposed to have post moves and range to the FT line? You act like anybody who can do anything other than dunk is some sort of 4/5 hybrid. That's not the case. It's not what a person CAN do that determines their best position. It's what a person CAN'T do. Etan can't dribble, pass, or defend. So we had to play him at C instead of PF. Caron Butler has the size of a SG but his limitations make him a SF. Going back a bit, Kwame Brown has had to make the switch to C in his post-Wiz career because of his lack of skills - even though he has prototype athleticism for power forwards.

No offense, but you remind me of EJ - a self proclaimed mad scientist who likes to tinker with different combinations because he thinks he sees something that nobody else sees and he'll be hailed a genius if he can make it work. Well, there's a reason why other teams don't do that...it doesn't work. And trying to make a one dimensional player into a jack-of-all trades is how we ended up with Jarvis Hayes playing PF for games on end. Hayes was brought in to be a shooter but EJ had him doing everything but that. And look what happened - he never blossomed into the shooter we drafted him to be. But had EJ simply used him for what we drafted him for, things might have been different.

Same with McGee. Like Dat said, he doesn't even know how to play center yet. He was drafted to change games with his freakish athleticism, a la Tyson Chandler. How much sense do you think it would make for the Hornets to have Chandler working on fade away jumpshots and cross over dribbles in the offseason? Absolutely none. It would be foolish for them to try to make him anything other than what he is. Same with McGee. Let's make him the best center he can possibly be, not make him an average center who can also be an average PF.

LMAO.

[closg00]

Yikes! The Express Wiz guy is floating this idea.

How attractive would a package of McGee, the No. 1 choice, and the expiring contract of Thomas be to a team that figures it’s a year away? Would it be enough to fetch the Wizards a difference-maker languishing on a non-contending team? Dealing McGee, a find at No. 18 last summer, would mortgage a chunk of the Wizards future, but could bring a player that would make Washington better immediately.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sport ... 41577.html

[Rafael122]

That's the problem with the local guys. They have no idea what they are talking about. Let's jut trade a 7 footer with freakish athleticism to get a vet. Yes, that's smart. Why don't we trade Haywood for Rasho Nestorovic while we're at it?

[closg00]

That's the problem with the local guys. They have no idea what they are talking about. Let's jut trade a 7 footer with freakish athleticism to get a vet. Yes, that's smart. Why don't we trade Haywood for Rasho Nestorovic while we're at it?

It's a bad idea long-term, but it could net us a win-now impact player to make getting out of the first round feasible...then-again so could Blake Griffin.

[nate33]

The Examiner guy obviously doesn't understand the cap ramifications of such a trade. Basically, if we trade the #2, McGee and expirings for a good vet, we'll end up with a backbreaking luxtax payment in 2010.

[pancakes3]

and we'd be hard pressed to resign 'wood and eventually butler. McGee should be held onto because he's the only credible backup center we have on the team. If blatche is playing when haywood is sitting then it means either Jamison has to play extended minutes or that DSong is on the court at PF. I'd rather have McGee and Blatche as the frontcourt than Songaila/Blatche.

[dnk]

Songaila is a very good backup at the 4. If development were not a concern, I'd rather I've Songaila on the court than McGee. McGee's great and he shows flashes, but they're called flashes because most of the time he is completely lost on defense. But playing Songaila against second-unit PFs will probably net much more good than bad.

But developing our talent is a concern, so I hope McGee does get his share of minutes.