Did Rondo establish himself? (game 1 CHI series)

celticfan42487 · Post #1 » by **celticfan42487** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:59 pm

Hey guys, well the Celts lost so they'll be no happy talk in here. And every news story will have Rose on the coverline [best rookie game ever? yes]...

amidst and lost in all of this... is that amazing preformance by Rajon Rondo.

I'd say Rondo was Rose's equal today or there abouts.

Ironically it seems to me that everytime Rondo has a big game we're never up by a lot or we're even loosing... which makes no sense.

But as a non-Rondo lover... I was watching today's game and thinking... damn Rondo could of just established himself as a great starting PG in the league. One of the guys that although he needs the right team around him to win [he can't shoot and I doubt his body can take the punishment from constantly driving all season]... he be entering that elusive feared PG realm.

Maybe next season we'll start seeing Rondo on the second unit instead of Ray Allen because Rondo can make crappy players look good.

Well either way, I'd like the replay of this game saved to watch Rondo play all over again. Nearly flawless performance.

Did this game make you look twice at Rondo as well?

eloper · Post #2 » by **eloper** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:17 pm

Rondo played excellent offensively, and it's pretty exciting to think about what he can do when he's confident in his game. I'll always be a Rondo fan, I've absolutely loved watching him develop from the player he was in college to where he's at now.

That said, his game was far from flawless, especially defensively. Rondo's the last guy who deserves blame for the loss today, but defensively he was getting absolutely torched by Rose. I'd be alright with it if he was using good technique and just wasn't able to stick with Rose, but that wasn't the case. Instead Rondo kept gambling, and while that sometimes works for him (especially against worse PGs), it wasn't working against Rose, and he should have adjusted accordingly. Instead I kept seeing Rose blow by Rondo, with Rondo unsuccessfully trying to strip the ball and standing there flat footed.

Obviously Rondo's going to make some mistakes, but I hope the coaches get on him about the way he was trying to defend Rose, because it clearly wasn't working. At the same time, he needs to keep doing what he was doing offensively, because we need him to be a scoring option and a creator to have any shot in the playoffs.

Post #3 » by **fleet** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:44 pm

That said, his game was far from flawless, especially defensively. Rondo's the last guy who deserves blame for the loss today, but defensively he was getting absolutely torched by Rose. I'd be alright with it if he was using good technique and just wasn't able to stick with Rose, but that wasn't the case. Instead Rondo kept gambling, and while that sometimes works for him (especially against worse PGs), it wasn't working against Rose, and he should have adjusted accordingly. Instead I kept seeing Rose blow by Rondo, with Rondo unsuccessfully trying to strip the ball and standing there flat footed.

Obviously Rondo's going to make some mistakes, but I hope the coaches get on him about the way he was trying to defend Rose, because it clearly wasn't working

I wouldn't get on Rondo for blowbys. Rose can get by anybody if he wants to be this aggressive. And when he is hitting the jumper, a defender is kind of in a torture chamber of how close to play to Rose. Reading the tea leaves, Rose didn't feel too confident in his teamates making shots,
so he put his head down and took over. If the rest of the Bulls shoot a little better in set plays, Rose will pull back on the reigns. Thats not Rondos fault. Rose wasn't doing it because of Rondos defense imo. He was only playing Rose the way they set up the D I'm sure. Nobody ever really saw Rose this aggresive before much, though he has been from time to time. What was really really different was the way Rose got to the line today. The Cs seemed to have wanted to shut down Gordon more and probably would rather see Rose taking shots.

And Rondo was already established pretty well as a young PG who should put up some big games. I imagine Rondo felt much the same Rose did, and took over himself. In part because the opportunities were there against the Bulls defensive scheme. I'm a little surprised Rondo wasn't more well regarded as having arrived btw. Ithought if the way Rondo hit his jumpers is something people were rightfully questioning, it still seems like a strange question to me. (has he finally established). Thought he was easily by now.

Post #4 » by **BrooklynBulls** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:50 pm

No primary defender really guards Rose. You have your bigs to blame for that. That, and Derrick Rose has an underrated jumper, it was on fire today, and oh yeah, he's a very good player.

But Rondo was impressive entirely in his own right. His jumper looked good, hit more than a couple, and of course, he's a great rebounder, a clever passer, and quick to the rim. But I don't know if he's "established" himself because I thought he was already established as the starting PG on the freakin' champion team.

edit: I should have read the previous post. He said it too, but better.

Flite · Post #5 » by **Flite** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:00 pm

Rondo's the last guy who deserves blame for the loss today, but defensively he was getting absolutely torched by Rose.

Not to talk up Derrick or anything... but there is not a single defensive player in this league that can stick with Derrick. He is the fastest player in the league in my opinion, has incredible ball handling ability and good footwork. You simply can not contain him with man to man defence.

The way you stop Derrick is with help defence. Despite his aggressiveness going to the rim he does not yet know how to initiate contact and draw the foul. He always seem to avoid the foul and try a wild shot. You get Perkins and Powe down there to contest the shot and make him beat you with the jumper.

I think Rondo did as much as he could while Derrick was in front of him. The help defence just wasn't there all game long.

eloper · Post #6 » by **eloper** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:03 pm

Not trying to take anything away from Rose, he's an explosive player, and if his jumper is on he's pretty much unstoppable (as he was today), but too many times I saw Rondo standing there flat footed reaching in as Rose went by him. It's one thing when you're shuffling your feet and the guy gets by you, but Rondo was caught offering pretty much no resistance a few too many times for my liking. Again, I understand that Rose is going to get by just about anyone, but Rondo at the very least has to be shuffling along side him and at least try to make things slightly more difficult.

The point is Rondo wasn't effectively leading Rose towards the help defense, and while I understand Rondo alone isn't going to stop Rose, he needs to do a better job of leading him to a spot on the floor as opposed to letting him get where ever he wants.

Post #7 » by **fleet** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:19 pm

well, its a tough thing especially when a really strong quick guy is hitting his jumper was my main point

Flite · Post #8 » by **Flite** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:19 pm

True, Rondo did look to be going for steals 90% of the time instead of playing within the defensive scheme. Isn't Rondo a bit of a gambler usually though?

Legendary 33 · Post #9 » by **Legendary 33** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:49 pm

I agree with everything my co-bulls fans have said above. I think Rondo has established himself as a premier defensive player. He and Chris Paul are obviously the 2 best defenders in the league, and I love the way Rondo has that behind the back pass fake and always gets that open layup.
He did get litup a couple of times by Rose, but honestly who doesn't? Rondo played Rose just about as well as I think anybody could have, but the help defense (i.e, KG) wasn't there.

stiles21 · Post #10 » by **stiles21** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:50 pm

Rondo scored a bunch but i don't think he had that good of a game. Too many times he walked the ball up dribble the clock down to 7 seconds threw it down low then the big men had to force bad shots. And when Rose would make a nice play it was like Rondo would try to go back at him and messed up the flow of the offence.

Joyeuse · Post #11 » by **Joyeuse** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:37 am

celticfan42487 wrote:Ironically it seems to me that everytime Rondo has a big game we're never up by a lot or we're even loosing... which makes no sense.

Maybe Rondo tries harder to take over games when the other three players who are capable of it aren't, in which case we're already at a big disadvantage. Don't know if it's true or not, but it would make sense, wouldn't it?

vct33 · Post #12 » by **vct33** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:56 pm

Rose scored a lot of points after made layups by Rondo. He played a smart game. If Rondo went to the hoop and scored and then ended up on the ground or out of position, Rose took off before Rondo could get back and nobody else would even get in his way.

Post #13 » by **UGA Hayes** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:24 pm

Rondo definitely made some pretty bad gambles, however in the team's defense Chicago's use of illegal screens is pretty egregious. Overall I think Chicago deserved to win the game, as a Celtic fan I know this is one of those "only the home fan sees it " things that is going to drive me nuts. Its a pretty important thing since Chicago's bigs are so skinny they don't really set good screens if they aren't moving

TheOGJabroni · Post #14 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:30 pm

Flite wrote:True, Rondo did look to be going for steals 90% of the time instead of playing within the defensive scheme. Isn't Rondo a bit of a gambler usually though?

Not as much as he did in yesterday's game. And usually it's okay cause we have KG helpside. Obviously we don't have the same luxury right now so he needs to make some adjustments. Great game by Rose though. I was a big fan of him on Memphis last year with CDR and it's nice to see him being so sucessful in the NBA, just not against the C's :banghead:

Cyclical · Post #15 » by **Cyclical** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:00 pm

vct33 wrote:Rose scored a lot of points after made layups by Rondo. He played a smart game. If Rondo went to the hoop and scored and then ended up on the ground or out of position, Rose took off before Rondo could get back and nobody else would even get in his way.

EXACTLY.

At least a 10-12 of Rose's points yesterday were as a result of smart, quick thinking after a Celtics basket, when our defense wasn't set. Guys were too lazy and unfocused getting back and he took full advantage of it. In general Rondo did gamble a bit too much but his help defense was nothing to write home about either - obviously something that would have never happened with KG.

Having said that, Rose is still a stud. They're both going to be (some may argue that they already are) top-5 PGs for years to come. Rose is stronger and a much better shooter but Rondo's the better defender and rebounder and at least as quick. Right now neither one can stop the other - let's see the coach's adjustments. Great match-up.

celticfan42487 · Post #16 » by **celticfan42487** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:03 pm

well I guess this could trail the game into a diffrent direction. I've never seen rondo seemingly play perfect on offense as he did yesterday.

As for defense... I've almost never seen Rondo keep a man in front of him. He always gamble for steals and lets the guy blow by him. I just assume it's because Rondo doesn't have the weight to force a player to an area as they're driving.

Rondo is an amazing help defender/rebounder. Goes for steals all the time, can get in the passing lanes, and get loose rebounds. But he's not Payton/Kidd of PGs where he is going to stand in front and guide you to help defense.

Legendary 33 · Post #17 » by **Legendary 33** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:30 pm

Cyclical wrote:
vct33 wrote:Rose scored a lot of points after made layups by Rondo. He played a smart game. If Rondo went to the hoop and scored and then ended up on the ground or out of position, Rose took off before Rondo could get back and nobody else would even get in his way.

EXACTLY.

At least a 10-12 of Rose's points yesterday were as a result of smart, quick thinking after a Celtics basket, when our defense wasn't set. Guys were too lazy and unfocused getting back and he took full advantage of it. In general Rondo did gamble a bit too much but his help defense was nothing to write home about either - obviously something that would have never happened with KG.

Having said that, Rose is still a stud. They're both going to be (some may argue that they already are) top-5 PGs for years to come. Rose is stronger and a much better shooter but Rondo's the better defender and rebounder and at least as quick. Right now neither one can stop the other - let's see the coach's adjustments. Great match-up.

I don't think there's any chance Rondo will ever become a top 5 point guard in the NBA as long as he's being overshadowed by 5 hall of famers. Also, he needs to work on his jumpshot and his offensive game in general.

Legendary 33 · Post #18 » by **Legendary 33** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:37 pm

3 hall of famers* i meant.

Flite · Post #19 » by **Flite** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:52 am

bosFcelts wrote:
Flite wrote:True, Rondo did look to be going for steals 90% of the time instead of playing within the defensive scheme. Isn't Rondo a bit of a gambler usually though?

Not as much as he did in yesterday's game. And usually it's okay cause we have KG helpside. Obviously we don't have the same luxury right now so he needs to make some adjustments. Great game by Rose though. I was a big fan of him on Memphis last year with CDR and it's nice to see him being so sucessful in the NBA, just not against the C's

Yeah, as I was saying - help defence is the only way to stop Derrick Rose. Without KG, if that Perk/Powe/Davis front line doesn't step up and challenge him, it's going to be an extremely tough series for the Celtics.

Derrick does not yet know how to sell the foul... he only got to the line like 3 or 4 times during the season... just getting in the way can slow him down until he learns, but it seems that even in the halfcourt the Celtics bigs were way late on getting in his path.

Good luck for game 2 guys.

Mahoney_jr · Post #20 » by **Mahoney_jr** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:08 am

I think Rondo established himself as a player that can put up big offensive numbers (an All Star for the public perception).

But I would have preferred to see him more distributing and finishing with 12 points and a win. I didn't like how this team played and Rondo was part of the problem.