The Current Playoff Structure

evilRyu · Post #1 » by **evilRyu** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:37 pm

I noticed a mini discussion brewing regarding the playoff structure in the "OT: Jays off to best start in 8 years". I thought I'd open a thread specifically for this.

What are everyone's opinion of the current playoff structure, where only 8 teams total get in? Some are in favor of expanding, some are not.

I'm in favor of expanding to 8. Of course being a Jays fan makes the decision much easier (it may even be my main motivation for saying 'yes'), but how can you not be excited for playoff baseball if your team is in it?

oomalay · Post #2 » by **oomalay** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:08 pm

I'm for changing the structure, but obviously I'm biased because we would've been in it. Maybe 6 teams, with the top 2 teams getting a bye? I doubt they'll change it though, but it would be intriguing to see. I want Doc to get some playoff appearances before he retires though, he deserves it

s e n s i · Post #3 » by **s e n s i** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:47 pm

Yeah, I'm so tempted to reply to some of the posts in that thread. If the Jays keep this up for a while, I can easily see all the negative posters there hopping on the bandwagon.

As for the playoff structure, I'm actually in favour of keeping it the way it is. Moving the amount of teams up to 8 would mean that more than half the teams in the AL would make the playoffs. Last year, not even 8 teams in the AL were above .500. The cream of the crop rises after the regular season, and the 4-team playoff format is indicative of that.

If they changed the playoff structure to 8-- say next year, I'd be upset because with an early evaluation, the Jays look really good in '10. But making the playoffs in a 4-team format would make it twice as satisfying.

TorontoSF · Post #4 » by **TorontoSF** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:18 pm

The best teams usually don't even win in the playoffs, just the teams that get hot. I wouldn't want to have 8/14 teams making the playoffs that is way too many bad teams. Usually the top 6 teams are pretty good, but that would not work because I doubt the top 2 seeds would want 7 days off.

What would make more sense to me, but would most likely not happen, would be that the top 4 teams regardless of division would make the playoffs.

evilRyu · Post #5 » by **evilRyu** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:21 pm

TorontoSF wrote:The best teams usually don't even win in the playoffs, just the teams that get hot. I wouldn't want to have 8/14 teams making the playoffs that is way too many bad teams. Usually the top 6 teams are pretty good, but that would not work because I doubt the top 2 seeds would want 7 days off.

What would make more sense to me, but would most likely not happen, would be that the top 4 teams regardless of division would make the playoffs.

the fact that the 1st round is only a best of 5 may be a result of that. the season should be shortened to make the first round a best of 7.

raps4life~ · Post #6 » by **raps4life~** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:49 pm

it doesnt really make sense, that after such a long season, the playoffs are so damn short. MLB has like twice the regular seasons games as the NBA or NHL yet half the playoff games.

rtcaino · Post #7 » by **rtcaino** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:06 pm

Each league becomes two divisions.
Two divisions winners make playoffs, as do 4 wild cards.
Wild card teams play each other, while the division winners get a by.

Essentially this increases the value of getting top in the division and decreases the value of the current third best division winner and the current wild card.

I think by these rules the jays would have played some post season ball.

Modern_epic · Post #8 » by **Modern_epic** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:12 pm

The only way I would be okay with a change is to add more teams would be if they lengthened each playoff round. Baseball is supposed to be about the grind, not short spurts of good play.

In reality, seven game series' aren't a good way to pick the better team. Five is just silly. So any more rounds in the playoffs would equal more chances for a lesser team to get hot, as the playoffs are currently formatted. If they want to seriously shorten the regular season and make playoff series best of 9 or 11, then I would be interested.

As for a 6 team format, baseball is not a game that you want a bye in. You play almost every day during the season; more than a week off is just going to mess up your rhythm.

(You actually could get 8 of the up to 19 games I think this would need back by reverting to the post expansion 154 game schedule. Plus you could shut up people who complain about records since then being over more games!)

Marmoset · Post #9 » by **Marmoset** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:23 pm

I don't want to re-type everything I typed in the other thread, but to sum up my reasons for voting yes:

1. Fan interest - with twice the number of playoff teams, the majority of teams are still in the race late in the season. Right now, half of them are done by mid-summer. More interest means higher attendance, higher TV ratings, more money for baseball.

2. Economics - a big part of the problem in the Jays' case is the Yankees and Red Sox gobbling up the division lead and wild card positions primarily because they can outspend everyone else. With 8 playoff teams the Jays, Tampa, and other teams don't have to catch 'lightning in a bottle' once every 10 years to make the playoffs - they have a chance almost every year.

I understand the other perspective. It's definitely a good thing for the playoffs to be a very exclusive club where only excellent teams make it in. But today's economic make that difficult to swallow in a lot of cities. Also, one more point I thought of - the current system has let several teams only a few games over .500 get in based on winning their division (several times in the AL West, San Diego was 82-80 I believe one year). How does that fit with the idea of exclusivity for team making the playoffs?

Marmoset · Post #10 » by **Marmoset** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:25 pm

Modern_epic wrote:The only way I would be okay with a change is to add more teams would be if they lengthened each playoff round. Baseball is supposed to be about the grind, not short spurts of good play.

In reality, seven game series' aren't a good way to pick the better team. Five is just silly. So any more rounds in the playoffs would equal more chances for a lesser team to get hot, as the playoffs are currently formatted. If they want to seriously shorten the regular season and make playoff series best of 9 or 11, then I would be interested.

I agree about the five game series. I'm glad the NHL and NBA abolished them, even if it was for different reasons ($$$).

evilRyu · Post #11 » by **evilRyu** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:26 pm

Marmoset wrote:
Modern_epic wrote:The only way I would be okay with a change is to add more teams would be if they lengthened each playoff round. Baseball is supposed to be about the grind, not short spurts of good play.

In reality, seven game series' aren't a good way to pick the better team. Five is just silly. So any more rounds in the playoffs would equal more chances for a lesser team to get hot, as the playoffs are currently formatted. If they want to seriously shorten the regular season and make playoff series best of 9 or 11, then I would be interested.

I agree about the five game series. I'm glad the NHL and NBA abolished them, even if it was for different reasons ($$$).

yeah i'm not a big fan of the best of 5 either... a hot streak can get you into the LCS

peteyjones13 · Post #12 » by **peteyjones13** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:37 pm

Ya the fact that the first round in baseball is still best of 5 is beyond ridiculous. Hopefully it's been brought to Bud Selig's attention.

J-Roc · Post #13 » by **J-Roc** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:59 pm

Let's be honest, I only care about the Blue Jays. That said, I'd be more for getting out of the division with the Red Sox and Yanks, and going into a division with other teams in a similar market situaion.

If we stayed in the same division, but 8 teams from the AL made it, the Jays would only try to be good enough to make the playoffs. That's how it is in the other sports. And that won't get them any closer to beating the Yanks and Red Sox.

evilRyu · Post #14 » by **evilRyu** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:26 am

J-Roc wrote:Let's be honest, I only care about the Blue Jays. That said, I'd be more for getting out of the division with the Red Sox and Yanks, and going into a division with other teams in a similar market situaion.

If we stayed in the same division, but 8 teams from the AL made it, the Jays would only try to be good enough to make the playoffs. That's how it is in the other sports. And that won't get them any closer to beating the Yanks and Red Sox.

I don't know if I totally agree with that... in a playoff series, anything can happen. The Jays over the past few seasons have done reasonably well against the Red Sox and Yankees. And with Roy Halladay pitching possibily 2 of the 5 games, who knows

J-Roc · Post #15 » by **J-Roc** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:34 am

evilRyu wrote:
J-Roc wrote:Let's be honest, I only care about the Blue Jays. That said, I'd be more for getting out of the division with the Red Sox and Yanks, and going into a division with other teams in a similar market situaion.

If we stayed in the same division, but 8 teams from the AL made it, the Jays would only try to be good enough to make the playoffs. That's how it is in the other sports. And that won't get them any closer to beating the Yanks and Red Sox.

I don't know if I totally agree with that... in a playoff series, anything can happen. The Jays over the past few seasons have done reasonably well against the Red Sox and Yankees. And with Roy Halladay pitching possibily 2 of the 5 games, who knows

I think an argument can be made the Jays have actually been trying to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox, and that's why they've been as good as they've been. Not good enough, but as you say, pretty good.

Post #16 » by **Schad** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:37 am

Baseball is the rare (only?) sport where the regular season is almost held in greater regard than the postseason; the exclusiveness of the playoffs justifies the 162 game slog, which wouldn't be the case if 12-16 teams made it every year. I don't like it for the Jays, but I do think it's best of the league to leave it as is.

J-Roc · Post #17 » by **J-Roc** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:31 am

And actually, the regular season in baseball is given a postseason "feel" by highlighting the month of September. It's all about trying to be in it for September. And then while good teams are in the "pennant race" (the fancy name for September games), the bad teams have extra call-ups and start preparing for the next year.

_venom_ · Post #18 » by **_venom_** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:38 am

I've always thought that baseball should expand the playoffs to 6 teams like football. The top two teams would get a bye in the first round (this would still make it extremely important for teams to do well in the regular season) and then the other 4 teams would face each other to make it to the next round. Part of my belief stems from the fact that I am a Jays fan and it's difficult watching my team have no shot at the playoffs every year because of the division they're in but I also think it's a necessary change for baseball in general. Since there is no salary cap in baseball the same few teams will continue to dominate every season (with some exceptions here and there). That means that for most teams, the season is basically over before it even begins. By adding 2 extra playoff teams in each league, you're providing more hope to the bottom teams. This might lead to more lower end teams spending a few more bucks to try to get into the playoffs since there is a greater chance of making it.

There are really only 2 negatives to changing it:
1) Tradition- It's been 4 teams for so long and it would be a major change in baseball history. It would put a little less value in the regular season since you would no longer have to be top 4 to make it in.
2) NL is at a disadvantage with the change because they have two extra teams.

Modern_epic · Post #19 » by **Modern_epic** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:24 am

I know I already said this, but I'm going to go into greater detail for you 6 team folks:

Teams won't want a bye in baseball.

Baseball doesn't work like football does.

An extra week off in football is good, because pretty much everyone on your team has minor nagging injuries that get a chance to heal when you're only doing light practices in the first week. Plus, the effect of a week without competitive games in football is different, because it is all about coaching. The extra practice is great for coaching, especially against a team you played at most twice during the year. But even given all that, some people question the value of the bye in football.

Baseball doesn't work like that. It has far fewer nagging injuries, which are less likely to effect your performance anyway, as it is a less athletic game. And baseball is all about rhythm, not coaching. That's is why spring training has teams sometimes splitting to get two games in a day, just to get guys playing time. There really isn't that much to coach once players find their groove for the year.

Really, the major effect of a week off in baseball would be making you rusty for the first two games that are supposed to be at your advantage.

victor page · Post #20 » by **victor page** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:36 pm

I agree with J to the R-O-C that the teams should be re-grouped based on market size or payroll. You could put the Angels with the Red Sox and Yankees (and maybe the White Sox), and put the Jays with Cleveland, Minnesota, and Detroit. Sprinkle in the other teams as appropriate.

The schedule is currently unbalanced anyway so you could make sure the Angels don't over travel.

Either that or you need a salary cap - too many teams need a miracle to make the playoffs. When my teams miss the playoffs, I want it to be because of management stupidity or players underachievment as is the case with the Leafs and Raptors.

Would you like to expand it to 8 teams (like every other major sport in US?)