Chauncey Billups = Hall Of Famer?

Howard Stern · Post #1 » by **Howard Stern** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:44 am

A few years ago people called Billups overrated and a product of a system. People said yeah he's good but not great.The Detroit 5 make him better than he is ect. Now i think People need to appreciate this late bloomer like the great player he really is.

I take Billups over any point guard in the NBA right now. Other guys maybe faster or more talented but none can lead like him on both ends.

Patterns · Post #2 » by **Patterns** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:20 am

HoF? No
Best PG in the NBA? No
Underrated? No
Overrated? Starting to

Roger Murdock · Post #3 » by **Roger Murdock** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:00 am

No he wont be in the hall of fame, but he might deserve it if he keeps up this production for 2-3 more years.

Puertorique · Post #4 » by **Puertorique** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:03 am

Patterns wrote:HoF? No
Best PG in the NBA? No
Underrated? No
Overrated? Starting to

HOF - Possibly. looking back at some players who are in the HOF and looking at him I would say yes. It's not the stat's it's his impact.
Retired # in Detroit - for sure.
Underatted - Yes by far.
Overrated - The guy has been balling his ass off since coming to the NBA I followed him his whole career. If anything the OVERRATED thig proves that he has been underrated. The guy has been a best. Is he Stockton, Magic, Gervin, Paul, no, He is Chancey the proven player.

I will say this though, his # should be retired with the Pistons for sure.

Post #5 » by **Paydro70** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:27 am

Well, based on basketball-reference.com's HOF monitor (http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... areer.html) he's got a chance. He's a lot closer than I thought he'd be, even with the title and a few years as a top PG.

If he puts up the same stats for 2-3 more years, and makes the all-star game as well, he's probably going to make it... if he retired today, he's got very little chance.

legacyinthemakin89c · Post #6 » by **legacyinthemakin89c** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:30 pm

That hof monitor thing is a joke in a lot of ways. I personally think Billups will make the hof. He led a team to a title, was finals mvp, has finished in the top 5 of mvp voting before, and he is one of the most consistent guards in the NBA. Do I think he will be a first ballot hall of famer? No, but he'll get there eventually, especially if the Nuggets make the Western conference finals. He would be the only person in the league to be in 7 of the last 7 conference finals. Thats just ridiculous in terms of playoff success. I also agree with something George Karl said during last nights game and that is that players should have a winning percentage associated with them. I know its not the most accurate tool for success when talking about a guy like Shannon Brown or something, who has been on successful teams but now because of him, but I think it would be a great tool to measure a guys impact when he plays significant minutes.

DaDragicShow · Post #7 » by **DaDragicShow** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:34 pm

He might not make the HOF but he still is an amazing pointguard. Always leads his team deep into the playoffs.

Post #8 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:48 pm

I would be surprised if he made it. He's had a great NBA career for most of a decade, but I think his play prior to that will hurt him. Remember, we're talking about a BASKETBALL Hall of Fame, not NBA.

SuigintouEV · Post #9 » by **SuigintouEV** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:48 pm

He's one of those playesr whose impact extends far beyond his stats IMO. I used to sometimes think he was kind of overated, especially in 06 when he was an MVP candidate. I still don't think he's an MVP level player but that's not what the HoF is about. It's about being really damn good and winning IMO. See also: Joe Dumars.

that said, he's not going to be on the first ballot by any means as long as guys like Dick Vitale eat up HoF slots as "contributors"

Then again I think Kevin Johnson should be on the HoF already.

Post #10 » by **og15** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:53 pm

Why do people make conclusions based on single games? I'm not saying Billups doesn't have a chance at the HOF, though I don't think he will get in without something spectacular happening to end his career. But why do I have a feeling this thread came up because of the way he played against NOH last night. People need to really stop this one game thing, b/c if he plays bad for the rest of the series (which I'm not saying will happen), then what? Is he then the worst PG in the league or "not a winner"? Seriously...

ropjhk · Post #11 » by **ropjhk** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:54 pm

Borderline HOFer right now. If you look at the Hall, there are probably players less deserving than him in it, and there are probably players more deserving than him out of it. But if he leads Denver to any significant playoff success, that will certainly boost his case.

He still has plenty of time to pad his resume.

TsunamiZC · Post #12 » by **TsunamiZC** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:07 pm

Patterns wrote:HoF? No
Best PG in the NBA? No
Underrated? No
Overrated? Starting to

Given what Billups has done in Detroit, and now how he is leading Denver...I fail to see how a player like Nash is a HOF lock, yet Billups may only have a small window to some of the opinions around here.

litex · Post #13 » by **litex** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:20 pm

Hard to say. He's right on the Dennis Johnson borderline.

KWSN-Men · Post #14 » by **KWSN-Men** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:24 pm

He's borderline for me. But if he takes Denver far in the playoffs this year and in the next couple years, then without question he should be.

Post #15 » by **mojomarc** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:25 pm

Basketball-reference.com's blog goes through HOF candidates to assess the appropriateness of them being in the hall. They questions they ask are:

Was the player in question ever regarded as the best player in basketball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest he was the best player in basketball?

>>I don't think you could respond positively to this question in regards to Billups.

Was he the best player on his team?

>>Possibly on the Detroit teams, but most people would probably point to Wallace as the best player.

Was he ever the best player in basketball at his position?

>>Nope.

Did he have an impact on a number of NBA finals or conference finals?

>>This is favorable for Chauncey, as he won the 2004 Finals MVP and helped drive Detroit deep into the playoffs a number of times.

Was he good enough that he could play even after passing his prime?

>>Depending on who you talk to, he's past his prime now, even though his numbers are actually higher right now than they were in the 2004 Finals. He seems to be a player with an abnormally long prime to me, though, so I am going to say this is an open question, but in his favor.

Is he the best eligible player not in the HoF?

>>He's not eligible now, but if he were then he would not be the best eligible player. That would be Artis Gilmore.

Do the numbers meet HoF standards?

>>The HoF probability metric, which considers all statistics, give Billups a 23% chance of the HoF. Good numbers for sure, but not no-brainer numbers by any means. Basketballreference.com has him as a 96, while 135 qualifies as a likely HoFer. By these standards, he is not HoF worthy.

Is there evidence to suggest the player was better or worse than the statistics?

>>As a two-time All-Defense 2nd teamer, he may be a bit better than his statistics, but it is hard to suggest that he was significantly better.

Did he ever win an MVP or have MVP-like seasons? If not, how many times was he close?

>>He only had one top-10 finish, and that is as close as he got. That doesn't speak well to him being a strong candidate.

How many All-Star type seasons did he have? Did many players who had similar All-Star appearances also go into the HoF?

He has been on four ASGs. Most HoF PG candidates made it more frequently than that. Classic borderline HoF players like Mark Price, Kevin Johnson and Terry Porter had similar statistical seasons in their "primes," but are not in the HoF.

If this player were the best player on his team, how likely would that team be to win a championship?

>>I think all but the biggest fanboys would say that a Chauncey-led team where he is clearly the best player doesn't have a shot at all of competing for a championship.

What impact did the player have on NBA history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Was his college/international career especially noteworthy?

>>Can't respond positively on this one.

Going over this criteria, which I think is a pretty solid way to analyze it, I think Billups is close enough that it is worth discussing the possibility, but he will have to do a lot mroe to be a good HoF candidate. 2-3 more ASG appearances, another Finals MVP, a few top-5 MVP votes and maybe you have something, but right now he is a very good player but in no way a legit HoF candidate.

sdeezy · Post #16 » by **sdeezy** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:43 pm

If he makes a couple more all-star games and a couple more deep playoff runs, i think he eventually gets in

italy_23 · Post #17 » by **italy_23** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:56 pm

as of right now: no
he has to produce another 2-3 years at this level then he gets considerations

SuigintouEV · Post #18 » by **SuigintouEV** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:07 pm

>>As a two-time All-Defense 2nd teamer, he may be a bit better than his statistics, but it is hard to suggest that he was significantly better.

Well the part of his statistics that realllly might be getting overlooked is his unbelievable efficiency as a scorer and low-turnover passer.

_SRV_ · Post #19 » by **_SRV_** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:12 pm

There are many ways to look at it, my take is that the mid 2K's Pistons dominated the eastern conference, had multiple consecutive ECF appearances, 2 finals and 1 ring, at least one player from there should get to the HOF to represent this team, and the most obvious choice is him, Rasheed may have an advantage because of his time in Portland, but it's a long shot, Billups may cancel that in Denver. Another way is to compare the mid 2Ks Pistons to the late 80s/mid 90s bad boys, they had similar achievements, and while Isiah was a star, Dumars wasn't and still got in, which favors Billups' chances to enter.

_SRV_ · Post #20 » by **_SRV_** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:13 pm

SuigintouEV wrote:
>>As a two-time All-Defense 2nd teamer, he may be a bit better than his statistics, but it is hard to suggest that he was significantly better.

Well the part of his statistics that realllly might be getting overlooked is his unbelievable efficiency as a scorer and low-turnover passer.

Also the fact he spent his prime in a really slow paced team.