Brian Burke Wants Tavares

[Mike Hunt]

I was kind of sad to see that there was no discussion on this board about Burke's epic end of the year press conference.

He was all over the place in that press conference but the most interesting thing he said was: He wants to trade up and get Tavares.

Whether this is gamesmanship on his part or he actually thinks he can get him is up for debate. I tend to lean towards the former.

Burke just doesn't really have the assets to trade up. I've heard, a first, 2 seconds, maybe Luke Schenn and a bunch of cap relief (some variation of cash) all mentioned as potential pieces to be moved but I don't think that's anywhere close to enough.

I have a feeling Burke was dropping the "I want Tavares" thing to plant the seed just in case Tampa won the lottery (he seems to be in good with them). Now that NYI won the lottery, Burke can make an offer, get rejected and come out and say: "We did everything we could to get Tavares but the Islanders didn't want to move the pick, and who can blame them?... But we're really happy to get (player X) at #7. We had him as our #3 prospect and were surprised to see him on the board and couldn't pass him up". He still looks like he at least really tried to shake things up and fans will appreciate that.

He also might be thinking Tavares is wavering on whether or not to go to NYI and by essentially saying: "Hey John, Toronto wants you", maybe he'll get Tavares picturing himself in a Leafs uniform, playing close to home, etc. and will cause Tavares to force the Islanders' hand.

I also wouldn't discount the possibility of Burke going after the number 2 pick and actually getting Hedman. I know he's said that he wants to trade up to get Tavares but saying that he wants Tavares doesn't mean he wouldn't take Hedman if he had a shot.

Truth be told, I might be even more impressed if the Leafs pick up a Hedman for a slightly less steep price than Tavares, out of this draft because no one would have seen it coming.

[K_Flight]

I would do it in a heartbeat if it didnt involve schenn. Trading our future and last years best player in the draft(yes I said it) for the best player in this draft plus giving up our 7th pick which will still net a decent prospect then also giving up seconds doesn't make any sense whatsoever and would only slow down our rebuilding process. I also dont think that hedman is a good choice for us either, mainly because we already have one project on defence, do we really need two youngsters learning at once? with van ryn coming back next year and assuming we keep kaberle and kubina then hedman would only be wasting space.

[Griff83]

First Luke Schenn wasnt and wont be the best player from the 2008 draft.

The only way Burke could even make this happen imo is to directly make a deal with Tampa Bay firstly. They are a team that just spent a wack of money in the offseason and basically sold the concept of win now when doing so and im not sure they are ready to sink back into tank mode after one season. They have some wacky people in charge and instant results are prolly what they are looking for. For hypothetical sake say the Bolts like Jared Cowen or Brayden Schenn alot. Burke calls them up and says he's interested in a deal to aquire the #2 overall pick. He has 2-3 major assets that would appeal to the Bolts (Tomas Kaberle, #7 overall and possibly the 2010 first rounder). Now before you jump on me for talking about the 2010 first remember that Burke has said its his goal to make the playoffs next season so theres a solid chance that pick is around #14-16 in the draft. Brian Lawton also didnt totally sound against the trading of the pick when asked about the posibility on hockeycentral today.

Brian Lawtown sits back and thinks, hmm I could draft Hedman and he "could" potential turn out to be a franchise defencemen and perenially all star or I could move down a few spots, pick up another highly coveted defencemen in Cowen (alot depends on how they view the knee injury), also add a great replacement for the badly missed Dan Boyle in Tomas Kaberle and add a 2010 pick in whats going to be a awesome draft. Now all these semantics could be different and the trade could be different, who knows we could potentially also have to take a bad contract off there hands like a Malone. There are alot of things that we can offer that Tampa would be interested in (pick, cap space, proven defencemen). So say that we are able to convince them to make the trade and after we have aquired the #2 overall selection.

Burke then calls up Garth Snow and talks to him about who he likes the most in the draft. Now everyone is very quick to assume that the Isles will pick Tavares but there is no gurantee what the Isles are thinking especially considering they are pretty weak at every position and just like Burke said not every team has Tavares ranked at #1. Maybe they like Hedman more then Tavares and in that case it plays perfectly into our hands considering we hold the number 2 pick. So basically Burke can sell the idea that the Isles if they like Hedman the most, can move down to #2 in the draft and still get the guy they want and in the process add another valueble asset from us (pick, maybe young player like grabovksi, whatever). Bob Mackenzie said that its close to 50/50 on how people view whos the better prospect so the Isles might be intrigued by Hedman.

Imo Burkes only way of aquiring Tavares is to first be able to make a deal with Tampa for the #2 overall and at that point he will have a realistic chance of making it happen, I dont think a deal can realistically be made with just the #7 as the center piece.

[Griff83]

I would do it in a heartbeat if it didnt involve schenn. Trading our future and last years best player in the draft(yes I said it) for the best player in this draft plus giving up our 7th pick which will still net a decent prospect then also giving up seconds doesn't make any sense whatsoever and would only slow down our rebuilding process. I also dont think that hedman is a good choice for us either, mainly because we already have one project on defence, do we really need two youngsters learning at once? with van ryn coming back next year and assuming we keep kaberle and kubina then hedman would only be wasting space.

Hedman possess;s the size and skill that only come around every so often and he has generational type potential. You dont pass up on that just because you have Tomas Kaberle, Pavel Kubina or Mike Van Ryn. I will eat my short if all three of Kaberle, Kubina and Van Ryn are on this team next season. This team is still in a building stage and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having two young studs like Hedman and Schenn on the same team at once. Look at a team like LA they have a bunch of young high draft picks and they are developing there skills just fine.

[PJTucker]

I like the idea of moving up to #2 first. A guy like Kaberle, or even perhaps Toskala, has value to a team like TB, particularly if we're willing to take back a bad contract or two to make it happen. Both are on reasonable deals and could help TB turn things around quickly.

The NYI are in full re-build mode, so why would they pass up on a potential franchise centre? They certainly aren't going to do it for a short term fix. They'd need to be convinced they aren't mortgaging the future. I think enticing them with the stud D Hedberg and future picks could make it happen.

[Mike Hunt]

Do any of you think Hedman might be the better prospect? I know Tavares has been a special talent for so long and had a great World Juniors. But Hedman is a 6'6" defenseman who skates very well for a guy his size and has significan't offensive potential. Last I checked, teams have 6-7 defensemen on their teams. Even with schenn already in place, is the prospect of him and Hedman that bad?

[Griff83]

Do any of you think Hedman might be the better prospect? I know Tavares has been a special talent for so long and had a great World Juniors. But Hedman is a 6'6" defenseman who skates very well for a guy his size and has significan't offensive potential. Last I checked, teams have 6-7 defensemen on their teams. Even with schenn already in place, is the prospect of him and Hedman that bad?

Hedman very well could have just as much potential or more. Alot of scouts are skeptical about how much of a mean streak he has and if he can become meaner in the NHL and use his size more. The thought of a Hedman/Schenn first pairing is quite awesome but with this teams current makeup and the dire need for a frontline forward I think I'd rank Tavares>Hedman for the Leafs. Thats not to say I necesarrily think Tavares is a lock to become a more impactfull player.

Either way I dont think they could go wrong selecting either player.

[Ong_dynasty]

Since we had a chance to pick num. 5 if we lost our last game...

How much do you guys think it woulda help to get the num 1 or 2 pick?compared to num. 7?!

[Mike Hunt]

Since we had a chance to pick num. 5 if we lost our last game...

How much do you guys think it woulda help to get the num 1 or 2 pick?compared to num. 7?!

I think optics play a small part in deals like this so while the talent gap between 5 and 7 in this draft class doesn't seem to be that great, it's a lot easier for a team with the #1 or especially the #2 pick to justify moving down 3 spots to #5 in order to acquire additional assets than it is to move all the way out of the top-5 to #7 to do the same thing. Words like "top-5" or "top-10" can change perceptions about players even though, on a strict talent evaluation basis, they probably mean nothing.

The last player selected in the 1st round, still gets the distinction of being a "first rounder". While the first pick of the second round, only being picked one spot later gets the less desireable label of "second rounder".

How much GMs actually let this stuff play into their dealings is debateable. Hopefully, not too much.

The much bigger factor is where the perceived "talent drop-offs" are in the draft. Right now, you have a clear cut top-2 (Tavares, Hedman). I don't think there's any doubt as to that. The debate is regarding the second wave of talent. Some are saying the second wave is 3-deep (Duchesne, Svenssen-Parvi, Kane), some are saying it's 5-deep (Duchesne, Svenssen-Parvi, Kane, Schenn, Cowen) and some are saying it's even greater than 5. If Gath Snow or Brian Lawton subscribe to the 3-deep theory, then I'm thinking the Leafs winning that game will play a bigger factor. If they subscribe to the 5(or more)-deep theory, which seems to be the prevailing belief right now, then it should be less of a factor...

Even had the Leafs been awarded the #5 pick, I wouldn't like their odds of moving up into the top-2. It's just really hard to do.

[mcleex]

I think the Maple Leafs should just stick with the 7th pick, and maybe move up to like 4th or 5th. I think trading for the top 3 is too costly.

This is a deep draft anyways and I think there are really good players you can get at 7th.
Like I said, it's gonna cost the Leafs their 1st, a 2nd, and maybe some good players just to get Tavares.

Worth it in the end?
Draft Schenn with the 7th pick.

[Griff83]

Since we had a chance to pick num. 5 if we lost our last game...

How much do you guys think it woulda help to get the num 1 or 2 pick?compared to num. 7?!

I think optics play a small part in deals like this so while the talent gap between 5 and 7 in this draft class doesn't seem to be that great, it's a lot easier for a team with the #1 or especially the #2 pick to justify moving down 3 spots to #5 in order to acquire additional assets than it is to move all the way out of the top-5 to #7 to do the same thing. Words like "top-5" or "top-10" can change perceptions about players even though, on a strict talent evaluation basis, they probably mean nothing.

The last player selected in the 1st round, still gets the distinction of being a "first rounder". While the first pick of the second round, only being picked one spot later gets the less desireable label of "second rounder".

How much GMs actually let this stuff play into their dealings is debateable. Hopefully, not too much.

The much bigger factor is where the perceived "talent drop-offs" are in the draft. Right now, you have a clear cut top-2 (Tavares, Hedman). I don't think there's any doubt as to that. The debate is regarding the second wave of talent. Some are saying the second wave is 3-deep (Duchesne, Svenssen-Parvi, Kane), some are saying it's 5-deep (Duchesne, Svenssen-Parvi, Kane, Schenn, Cowen) and some are saying it's even greater than 5. If Gath Snow or Brian Lawton subscribe to the 3-deep theory, then I'm thinking the Leafs winning that game will play a bigger factor. If they subscribe to the 5(or more)-deep theory, which seems to be the prevailing belief right now, then it should be less of a factor...
Even had the Leafs been awarded the #5 pick, I wouldn't like their odds of moving up into the top-2. It's just really hard to do.

Great Post Mike.

I personally think the draft is top 3 heavy with Duchene also in the pack with Hedman and Tavares. Duchene prolly doesnt have the high end offensive potential like Tavares does but I think he has much more 2 way potential to become a center's version of Zach Parise type. After that I think its all how you percieve Jared Cowens injury. If you are willing to take a risk on a kid who's just had major knee surgery then I'd say the next tier is 4 strong with (Kane, MSP, Schenn and Cowen).

Personally I see it playing out like this

Tavares
Hedman
Duchene
Kane
MSP
Schenn

Therefore us sitting at #7 would be left with the choice of Jared Cowen. I dont feel one bit comfortable with this seeing we have a shallow talent pool in terms of prospects and we really arent in a position were we can afford to be taking any risks. I really think Burke will trade up for one of Tavares, Duchene or Schenn so this really shouldnt be a issue. If we were left to picking #7 and Schenn is gone, I'd rather trade down a few spots to around 11-13 and select a player like Kulikov or Ekman Larrson and grab another second rounder in the process.

[bryant08]

Do any of you think Hedman might be the better prospect? I know Tavares has been a special talent for so long and had a great World Juniors. But Hedman is a 6'6" defenseman who skates very well for a guy his size and has significan't offensive potential. Last I checked, teams have 6-7 defensemen on their teams. Even with schenn already in place, is the prospect of him and Hedman that bad?

Hedman definitely has more potential IMO. You're looking at a kid with Chris Pronger's size (already listed as heavier) and Jay Bouwmeester's skating ability. I just don't think you can consider this a clear cut #1.

In regards to talent drop off, I agree, but I think one of the top six teams in this draft will draft a d-man other than Hedman. There has to be some team with the need for some defensive depth, rather than an offensive threat in a guy like MSP.

[RoyceDa59]

It is of my opinion that Burke's true target is Hedman. Burke likes to build his teams starting from the back end, and a pairing of Hedman and Schenn would cause nightmares for opposing team's top lines. Size and mobility are at a premium for NHL defensemen, whereas a player like Tavaras, with boatloads of offensive talent, are surprisingly much easier to come by in the new NHL. Hedman is the real deal, he's a Chris Pronger type mold, with more weight and a smooth stride. The jury is still out on whether Hedman will possess a similar mean steak that we've seen in Pronger, but regardless he is the type of stalwart defensemen that comes around once every decade or so. If a team is looking to become a true contender for years to come, their chances of success are greater with Hedman than they are with Tavaras.

That all being said, I see no reason why a team like Tampa Bay, that is loaded up front and painfully thin at the back end, would pass up the opportunity to draft a guy like Hedman. He would round out their roster nicely, and become an integral part of the teams inevitable rebuild that is on the horizon.

I dont think Burke can get either Tavaras or Hedman, but I do like his public annoucement about attempting to do so. It gives the fans hope that change is coming to Toronto, and it also shows his aggressive nature that has been sorely lacking in the Leafs organization for years. Burks will change this team around, and he will probe at every avenue possible to bring talented young hockey players to Toronto. There is still a lot of quality players available at #7, and with the upcoming cap room, hope still remains for a swift turnout in Leafs land.

[Griff83]

Do any of you think Hedman might be the better prospect? I know Tavares has been a special talent for so long and had a great World Juniors. But Hedman is a 6'6" defenseman who skates very well for a guy his size and has significan't offensive potential. Last I checked, teams have 6-7 defensemen on their teams. Even with schenn already in place, is the prospect of him and Hedman that bad?

Hedman definitely has more potential IMO. You're looking at a kid with Chris Pronger's size (already listed as heavier) and Jay Bouwmeester's skating ability. I just don't think you can consider this a clear cut #1.

In regards to talent drop off, I agree, but I think one of the top six teams in this draft will draft a d-man other than Hedman. There has to be some team with the need for some defensive depth, rather than an offensive threat in a guy like MSP.

Lets not get carried away here. Hedman is a good skater for someone whos around 6'5 but hes not in Bouwmeesters league. Bouwmeester is prolly the best all around skater in the entire league for a defencemen.

[kelso]

Great posts in this thread.

I don't think its all that obvious what Burke wants, yet. Of course he is interested in Tavares, but I think, even as much as everyone says it in front of a camera, people are still not completely sold on Taveres at #1. Thats not to say he isn't an exceptional talent, its just that there are a number of talented players in this draft that are compelling for their own reasons.

I would not give up any youth or picks- just talent on the roster, save for Schenn. Move up as far as makes sense, then take BPA (I'm not sold on Kane, but I think Duchene, Schenn, or even Jared Cowen who they could probably take with their current pick). Even better, get 2 picks....