This is the Celtics after the Allen trade

hickfromfrenchlick · Post #1 » by **hickfromfrenchlick** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:43 pm

Before we knew we were getting KG, this is the team Ainge signed up for.

Here's my question: even if couldn't have gotten KG, would it have been worth it to trade the #5 pick and take on Ray's salary so we could watch the C's have to battle to make it past the first round?

My answer: YES.

Losing sucked.

P.S. I'm sure everyone will agree with me if the alternative is "No, we should have kept the pick and drafted Yi."

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #2 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:47 pm

I was sick of young players and draft picks. My answer is yes too...Look how fun this series has been...

hickfromfrenchlick · Post #3 » by **hickfromfrenchlick** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:48 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:I was sick of young players and draft picks. My answer is yes too...Look how fun this series has been...

Plus, we'd have Al and Gomes back. I kinda forgot to mention that.

Of course, at the time we had no idea Rondo would be so good.

Then again, I think we still thought Gerald could give us something.

Rocky5000 · Post #4 » by **Rocky5000** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:55 pm

Yeah. This isn't quite the same team. We'd have no Eddie House, no Big Baby (part of the Ray trade), no Marbury, and instead we'd have Ryan Gomes, Telfair, and Big Al.

As far as your question, yes it was worth it. But after seeing how Delonte has played in Cleveland this year, and Wally's resurgence, I don't think we can say that we'd be that much worse with Yi or Jeff green + Those guys.

Zin5 · Post #5 » by **Zin5** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:01 pm

Take away the KG trade and we're probably the third best team in the East this year and second best last year. Al would've been a beast and our offense would be better at the expense of our defense. Our future and this series would look brighter, assuming Al was healthy, but we wouldn't have last year's championship is the main thing.

Rondo and Al would've been amazing to watch for a decade, something like Stockton/Malone light. Rondo probably would have averaged 10 assists per game this year if Al were here instead of KG (KG handles the ball more than Al and it's easier to get assists with a dominant low post big man).

I actually would've been pretty content with longer success and a chance at a championship, but I'm definitely glad we made the trade because we got at least one championship out of it. I think we could've won a championship without the trade, especially depending on what we got back for Paul/Ray later, but I think it was about time we got back to winning.

hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
BRUNiNHO91 wrote:I was sick of young players and draft picks. My answer is yes too...Look how fun this series has been...

Plus, we'd have Al and Gomes back. I kinda forgot to mention that.

Of course, at the time we had no idea Rondo would be so good.

Then again, I think we still thought Gerald could give us something.

We'd also have Bassy back if we would have forgiven him for that gun incident. A Rondo/Bassy PG rotation would've actually worked well for the long run since Bassy's at least turned himself around since then.

As for Gerald, I'm pretty sure at that point we were done with him. Our perception was pretty down on him, most of us thought he was pretty limited from the season and then he had that atrocious summer league where he couldn't even do the one thing he was good at: hit a jump shot.

PPAW4Life · Post #6 » by **PPAW4Life** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:03 pm

Without KG I don't know if we get Tibs as a defensive coach and I sure as hell know the team wouldn't be a "defensive" team.

To be honest, KG has made everyone better and more focused and I don't think the C's would have been anything more than a .500 ball club had we just done the Allen trade.

Zin5 · Post #7 » by **Zin5** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:09 pm

Oh, and as for whether or not we should have done the Ray trade: I was really against it at the time. I thought it left us directionless with a mix of old/young with no real intention of competing now or later and was generally dissatisfied with Ray, especially after coming off of surgery on his ankles.

As for now, I don't know, it depends on who we took in the draft. I'm assuming we would have traded Pierce, so we would have gotten back something for him as well. If we took Green, I'd be for it, but Yi, even though I wanted him at the time, just hasn't and probably wouldn't pan out with this team. I think overall I'm glad we made the trade and would've been fine even if we didn't trade for KG. Like I said, we'd be a top three team in the East with a pretty good chance of at least making it to the finals last year (maybe not so much this year).

Gold Chain · Post #8 » by **Gold Chain** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:54 pm

KG won you a title, without him you would have been fighting for a mid seed in the East imo.

KG demands even the bench scrubs to plat at a top level and he is the straw that stirs the drink. We all knew the Celts would fall off after a few years of the big three but an NBA championship has go to make it all worth it? Yes?

stiles21 · Post #9 » by **stiles21** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:10 am

The "BIg 3" were each willing to give up shots and touches for the greater good of the team because they knew they really had a chance to win but i think if the 3 was Paul, Ray and AL it would have been three guys fighting for shots. K.G got us a pretty banner to hang up forever.

Maple Green · Post #10 » by **Maple Green** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:34 am

Celtics after the Allen trade? We are still in the playoff team, considering Rondo-Allen-PP-Big Al-Perkins tandem. Delonte West is the sixth man and Wally trade for back up PF/C- ( Rasheed for instance). We are still top 3 in the East.

But we already harvested the fruit of KG deal that gives us the 17th banner.

Let's talk the future.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #11 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:37 am

Well seeing as we have a huge "trade RAY" Allen-hatred faction here on the board, we should think of this team minus Ray and KG...those would be good times, huh?? :roll:

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #12 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:46 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Well seeing as we have a huge "trade RAY" Allen-hatred faction here on the board, we should think of this team minus Ray and KG...those would be good times, huh??

Yeah my dude..apparently they were since alot of people are trying to ship off Ray next season for draft picks and Andres Nocioni.. :noway:

Knick 4ever · Post #13 » by **Knick 4ever** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:07 pm

Without KG, guys like big bay, Perkins, Rondo and powe would not have been as good as they are today. KG's presence in the locker room simply brings the best out of everyone, specifically on defense. Here is another one for you, without KG, Pierce would not have been a two way player nor the leader that he is today.

Tricky Ricky · Post #14 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:25 pm

THANK GOD WE HAVE KG!

I still wouldve liked to have seen what PP/Ray/Big Al couldve done but imo no KG=no banner 17

Tricky Ricky · Post #15 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:27 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Well seeing as we have a huge "trade RAY" Allen-hatred faction here on the board, we should think of this team minus Ray and KG...those would be good times, huh??

Well............we would have had a LOT of cap room and possible even D Rose 8-)

hiphop1 · Post #16 » by **hiphop1** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:35 pm

We also would have had AL.

spf211 · Post #17 » by **spf211** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:40 pm

If the Celtics didn't trade for KG they'd still have Jefferson and Ryan Gomes.

There would also be Ratliff's expiring contract at the end of last season to play with -- if the Celtics wanted to package that with a draft pick for another high salary player. My intuition says they would have just let Ratliff expire to have cash for a Jefferson extension.

It would have been a good team -- a team heavily focused on offense.

Post #18 » by **sully00** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:49 pm

There are a ton of "if this, then that."

I will be honest from them jump I am a huge Paul Pierce guy and the only guy in the world I would have accepted trading him for was probably Ray Allen during that time, though that Chris Paul guy doesn't suck too much.

If you didn't trade the 5 pick for Ray Allen or some other veteran force to team with Pierce you were going to have to deal Pierce. I would like to believe you would have taken Jeff Green but then you have to move Gomes so they would have taken Yi and Pierce would be a Bull, Laker, or Warrior or something.

There is no chance of Telfair being here.

As far as Rondo and Al being better than Rondo and KG that is not possible, Rondo and KG is the number one assist tandem in the NBA when KG is flowing. Al is actually a little bit of an assist killer (52% assisted) because of the post moves KG is a at 74% because of the jumpers and alley oops. But it is just a statistical issue Rondo and Al would be great together even without the gaudy assist totals.

That is the real question. I think Ray Allen for #5 was a no brainer. Big Baby offsets the loss of West, it is all good. Obviously this team doesn't win a championship without the KG trade, but if you want to look at it as we stand now we would be in a similar situation this season.

I think it is safe to say Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Al/Perk would be a playoff team last season and probably about as good as say the Hawks this season 50-55 wins. We would have the rug pulled out from underneath us with Big Al going down but we would have Baby to step in.

Now the unquantifiable issue is how good is everyone else because of Garnett starting with Pierce and Ray? I think that Thibodeau's impact on the team defense is overrated to an extent, he is a good coach but he alone isn't why we play good defense, Houston plays good defense without him. Clifford Ray is equally as important if not more, I don't think Perk, Powe, and Baby would be nearly as good without him. They clearly would also not be as good without KG and his influence.

I loved both trades when they happened and still do and would do them 10 times over. But I also would like to think that Perk, Baby, and Rondo would have continued to develop as good players without KG, even if not as fast and complete. We would still have Al and he would be at the 5 so Gomes could be that big sf will still don't have and Powe probably would have gotten more of a chance to do his thing.

That was the best part of the Ray deal was that even if KG fell through we would still have been a much improved team and been able to keep Pierce and we probably would have added Gasol. I don't know if a title would be a reality because KG would probably be a Laker and Kareem Abdul Bynum would be in MINN but we would still be believing we had a chance.