Laker's supporting cast - over rated ?

[Gutter92]

give lebron that team and they would win 75 games

Read the quote in my sig

[Ju Mad]

Kobe's cast is not overrated. I think they are rated just about right considering their talent level. And yes, with either LeBron or Wade that is a possible 72 win team. So no, they are not overrated. But on the flip side, LeBron's cast is vastly underrated. Its amusing how badly people talk about them just to big up LeBron.

[Jakay]

They're the two best teams in the league... it's borderline idiotic not to admit they also have two of the best supporting casts in the league, each one built to compliment their superstar and style of play.

[microfib4thewin]

The supporting cast is actually better than last year despite Sasha and Farmar's struggles. Odom and Gasol have one more year to work together, Bynum is starting to get his legs back, Ariza has been great throughout the year, Powell is a better player than Turiaf, and Shannon can attack the rim with a much better consistency than the best I've seen of Farmar in his career. This isn't to say the bench didn't have their struggles, but in terms of both talent and depth from each position it exceeds last year's second unit.

The problem with the expectation that the Lakers should win against the Cavs with minimal resistance is their defense. Most of the players are offensively minded, and with Phil's declining health and Kobe not giving a toot about defense everyone seem lost when they have to make a switch. I can recall maybe two or three times where this team has successfully force the other team to reset their offense consistently for an entire quarter.

The Lakers do have a great cast, maybe it's overrated by some, but they're role players who know what they are supposed to do and they do it well. They just don't have the defensive mentality to pull games away despite their superior talent.

[That Nicka]

give lebron that team and they would win 75 games

Read the quote in my sig

That poster was joking in your sig, genius.

[doozyj]

Kobe made the supporting cast better this year, due to Kobes best leadership in the league.

Quote that.

[carrottop12]

Kobe has a great supporting cast with Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Ariza, and now Brown. Even Powell is a good addition.

[doozyj]

Kobe has a great supporting cast with Bynum, Gasol, Odom, Ariza, and now Brown. Even Powell is a good addition.

Shannon is quite a suprise, but the reality is Sasha and Farmar have pretty much sucked the whole year. Luke definately improved his game as well. But the core starters have been pretty consistent in their roles (except last night of course, which everyone witnessed).

[Benedict_Boozer]

The Lakers are loaded. They have the most talented frontcourt and best bench depth in the league bar none. There is a reason everyone is picking them as runaway favorites for the title (myself included).

On paper, LA should be a lock for the title. No excuses.

[nycballer718]

Kobe is not as good as he was 2-3 years ago when he was leading his team to 45 wins. Think of the consequences of what would happen had he shot 5-24 back then. We as fans need to stop believing the Kobe hype. Kobe imo isn't even good enough anymore to hold the title of "kobe's supporting cast". The lakers are way too balanced, nothing different from a detroit team of past years who don't have that clear cut best player. There's four lakers who can equally have the best game for their team in Kobe, Gason, Bynum, Odom. lakers don't miss a beat without Kobe as if he's not even there. fans don't look at the bench waiting for kobe to comeback because you have 2-3 other guys who create their own shot.

[Bruh Man]

Kobe is not as good as he was 2-3 years ago when he was leading his team to 45 wins. Think of the consequences of what would happen had he shot 5-24 back then. We as fans need to stop believing the Kobe hype. Kobe imo isn't even good enough anymore to hold the title of "kobe's supporting cast". The lakers are way too balanced, nothing different from a detroit team of past years who don't have that clear cut best player. There's four lakers who can equally have the best game for their team in Kobe, Gason, Bynum, Odom. lakers don't miss a beat without Kobe as if he's not even there. fans don't look at the bench waiting for kobe to comeback because you have 2-3 other guys who create their own shot.

[The MVPlaya]

It took Kobe shooting his team completely out of it just to lose a game on the road to the Jazz by 2, and you come up with this thread now?

This is a pretty lame argument considering LeBron had a 2-18 (11%) game against the Championship Boston Celtics last year and were a missed LeBron layup from tying with only seconds remaining, they lost by 4. And his supporting cast was considered pretty average, so what does that tell us? It tells us using a 1 game sample is an awful way of attacking this argument.

[clipocketurs]

Gasol was a top 10 player this season.
Gasol was 1 of 6 players to win Conference Player of the Month (LeBron, Wade, Paul, Kobe, Dirk)
Add Bynum, Odom, Ariza, and Phil Jackson.

[Silver Bullet]

I keep hearing about how Kobe's supporting cast is so good, it would be insane if they don't win a title. I however don't see how they can win the title, when they have the softest players in the league from 3 to 11 (I didn't include Fisher).
Paul Gasol
Lamar Odom
Vujacic
Ariza
Walton

Which of these players would you be comfortable with taking a game winning bucket ?
Now I know Gasol is an all star, but so is Chris Bosh and the guy deserves to be an all star if the award were for the first 3 and a half quarters. But in the last 4-5 minutes of a close game, I'd rather have Jarron or Jason Collins over Bosh (at least they'd play some defense).

Ask yourself this, if it comes down to making a big bucket, who would you trust more: Mo Williams or Gasol, Boobie Gibson or Ariza.

If it comes down to grabbing a big rebound, who'd you rather have, Varejao or Gasol ?

If you needed a big stop and both Kobe and Lebron has fouled out? who would you trust more, the Lakers or the Cavs.

In every single case, I find myself picking the Cavs - even though I know, the general consensus is that Cavs have a much weaker supporting cast. I see it the other way. The Cavaliers have hard nosed tough guys, who can battle it out, whereas the Lakers supporting cast plays like a bunch of sissies when things get rough.

Kobe is 5th on his team in PER for the playoffs thus far and is 4th in Win Shares. But yet they are overrated?

What does that have to do with anything ?

I am not saying they are bad players. Gasol, Odom, Ariza, Bynum are very good players, but they have no mental or physical toughness at all. What's the point of putting up 20, 10 and 5 if you can't put that up in games that count.

The Lakers have a mediocre defense and mediocre outside shooting. They have players who can't handle any pressure at all. So it doesn't matter how good their PER is.

Put Lebron on a team with porous defense, shaky outside shooters and soft players, not only will his team win less, his stats would suffer considerably.

[clipocketurs]

I am not saying they are bad players. Gasol, Odom, Ariza, Bynum are very good players, but they have no mental or physical toughness at all. What's the point of putting up 20, 10 and 5 if you can't put that up in games that count.

The Lakers have a mediocre defense and mediocre outside shooting. They have players who can't handle any pressure at all. So it doesn't matter how good their PER is.

Put Lebron on a team with porous defense, shaky outside shooters and soft players, not only will his team win less, his stats would suffer considerably.

Lakers made it to the Finals last year without Bynum. Ariza only played 45 minutes total in last year's playoffs.

Kobe has the BEST supporting cast.

Lakers' defense was 5th in defensive efficiency this season.

[prekazi]

Nope, but Kobe is.

[guy1]

I keep hearing about how Kobe's supporting cast is so good, it would be insane if they don't win a title. I however don't see how they can win the title, when they have the softest players in the league from 3 to 11 (I didn't include Fisher).
Paul Gasol
Lamar Odom
Vujacic
Ariza
Walton

Where's Bynum?

Which of these players would you be comfortable with taking a game winning bucket ?
Now I know Gasol is an all star, but so is Chris Bosh and the guy deserves to be an all star if the award were for the first 3 and a half quarters. But in the last 4-5 minutes of a close game, I'd rather have Jarron or Jason Collins over Bosh (at least they'd play some defense).

If you really think that, then your a moron.

Ask yourself this, if it comes down to making a big bucket, who would you trust more: Mo Williams or Gasol, Boobie Gibson or Ariza.

Mo over Gasol and Boobie over Ariza, but I'd probably take Fisher over both.

If it comes down to grabbing a big rebound, who'd you rather have, Varejao or Gasol ?

Varajao, but why is Gasol the Laker choice? Shouldnt it be Bynum? I would pick Bynum over anyone from the Cavs.

If you needed a big stop and both Kobe and Lebron has fouled out? who would you trust more, the Lakers or the Cavs.

The Cavs. But if I needed a bucket, easily the Lakers, and the difference in that is much bigger then the difference in defense.

In every single case, I find myself picking the Cavs - even though I know, the general consensus is that Cavs have a much weaker supporting cast. I see it the other way. The Cavaliers have hard nosed tough guys, who can battle it out, whereas the Lakers supporting cast plays like a bunch of sissies when things get rough.

Not sure if you're a Kobe fan, but if you are then you clearly have an agenda. Part of your logic is that you couldn't count on any of Kobe's supporting cast to make a game-winning bucket, so they must be worse. Why does it really matter, when Kobe is supposed to be the most clutch player in the game, and is usually taking the game-winning shot himself? Not to mention Derek Fisher, who has proven to be one of the most clutch role players of all time. And you make absolutely no mention of Andrew Bynum. And whats up with the foul out scenario? How often does Kobe or Lebron ever foul out? Thats irrelevant. Saying Kobe's supporting cast is overrated is pretty dumb IMO, when they have 3 players (Gasol, Bynum, Odom), that can play better then Kobe on any given night without it being a surprise. Not to mention how the hell is their supporting cast overrated, when they made the Finals last year without 2 of their key players, Bynum and Ariza?

[Rasho Brezec]

Nope, but Kobe is.

Troll.

[Silver Bullet]

I keep hearing about how Kobe's supporting cast is so good, it would be insane if they don't win a title. I however don't see how they can win the title, when they have the softest players in the league from 3 to 11 (I didn't include Fisher).
Paul Gasol
Lamar Odom
Vujacic
Ariza
Walton

Where's Bynum?

Which of these players would you be comfortable with taking a game winning bucket ?
Now I know Gasol is an all star, but so is Chris Bosh and the guy deserves to be an all star if the award were for the first 3 and a half quarters. But in the last 4-5 minutes of a close game, I'd rather have Jarron or Jason Collins over Bosh (at least they'd play some defense).

If you really think that, then your a moron.

Ask yourself this, if it comes down to making a big bucket, who would you trust more: Mo Williams or Gasol, Boobie Gibson or Ariza.

Mo over Gasol and Boobie over Ariza, but I'd probably take Fisher over both.

If it comes down to grabbing a big rebound, who'd you rather have, Varejao or Gasol ?

Varajao, but why is Gasol the Laker choice? Shouldnt it be Bynum? I would pick Bynum over anyone from the Cavs.

If you needed a big stop and both Kobe and Lebron has fouled out? who would you trust more, the Lakers or the Cavs.

The Cavs. But if I needed a bucket, easily the Lakers, and the difference in that is much bigger then the difference in defense.

In every single case, I find myself picking the Cavs - even though I know, the general consensus is that Cavs have a much weaker supporting cast. I see it the other way. The Cavaliers have hard nosed tough guys, who can battle it out, whereas the Lakers supporting cast plays like a bunch of sissies when things get rough.

Not sure if you're a Kobe fan, but if you are then you clearly have an agenda. Part of your logic is that you couldn't count on any of Kobe's supporting cast to make a game-winning bucket, so they must be worse. Why does it really matter, when Kobe is supposed to be the most clutch player in the game, and is usually taking the game-winning shot himself? Not to mention Derek Fisher, who has proven to be one of the most clutch role players of all time. And you make absolutely no mention of Andrew Bynum. And whats up with the foul out scenario? How often does Kobe or Lebron ever foul out? Thats irrelevant. Saying Kobe's supporting cast is overrated is pretty dumb IMO, when they have 3 players (Gasol, Bynum, Odom), that can play better then Kobe on any given night without it being a surprise. Not to mention how the hell is their supporting cast overrated, when they made the Finals last year without 2 of their key players, Bynum and Ariza?

I am a Kobe fan but I am a Lebron fan as well.

My logic is this:
You can't count on most of the Lakers to make a clutch bucket.
So other teams can clog the paint, specially in the 4th quarter - and double or even Quasi triple Kobe.
Kobe can't defend all 5 guys - like last night, if Gasol had managed to get a stop even once in the last 2 mins, it wouldn't have come down to a game winning play.
Now individually the Lakers have good players, but I like the Cavs mix much much better.
I would rather have a team of Kirk Hinrich - good outside shooter, good defender, not a sissy
Kobe,
Kapono - clutch, deadeye outside shooter
K-Mart
Bynum

Talent wise, this team would probably be much worse than the current mix, but you have clutch shooting, good defense and a team that complements your one star player. This is exactly how the Cavs are built. If you put someone like Chris Bosh on that team, or Baron Davis or another soft quasi-all star, I think that team would get worse, not better.

So the conclusion is this, IMO, the Lakers supporting cast is horrendously over rated and I will be very surprised if they can win the title if it's a close series - no matter what Kobe does. I think even Utah would've had a fairly decent chance of upsetting them if they had Okur.

Which of these players would you be comfortable with taking a game winning bucket ?
Now I know Gasol is an all star, but so is Chris Bosh and the guy deserves to be an all star if the award were for the first 3 and a half quarters. But in the last 4-5 minutes of a close game, I'd rather have Jarron or Jason Collins over Bosh (at least they'd play some defense).

If you really think that, then your a moron.

I've seen every Raptors game for the past decade. The guy takes fade aways from 16 feet out, with no time left in the deciding game of a playoff series. I don't think there is a stat for it, but he's gotten his shot blocked in the last 3 seconds of a close game more than any player in the league. And his defense is atrocious. So yeah, I'd rather have one of the Collins twins, if the game is on the line.

[guy1]

I am a Kobe fan but I am a Lebron fan as well.

My logic is this:
You can't count on most of the Lakers to make a clutch bucket.
So other teams can clog the paint, specially in the 4th quarter - and double or even Quasi triple Kobe.

And you can count on most of the Cavs? Mo, West, and Boobie and thats about it, while the Lakers have Fisher. There really isn't much of a difference since the Cavs won't have more then two of those guys on the floor at the same time, and alot of the reason why you can count on those Cavs players is cause Lebron is so great at setting them up for good shots even in clutch situations, which can't be said for Kobe.

Kobe can't defend all 5 guys - like last night, if Gasol had managed to get a stop even once in the last 2 mins, it wouldn't have come down to a game winning play.

So Kobe's 5-24 had nothing do with it coming down to a game winning play? And it was one game against one of the best home teams in the league. I'm not saying Gasol is a great defender or anything, but this is a bit of an overreaction to a loss, and its ridiculous that you're not giving Kobe the blame for it. When this team is playing great, its "Kobe's the best player in the league" but when they lose and Kobe goes 5-24 its "his supporting cast is overrated."

Now individually the Lakers have good players, but I like the Cavs mix much much better.
I would rather have a team of Kirk Hinrich - good outside shooter, good defender, not a sissy
Kobe,
Kapono - clutch, deadeye outside shooter
K-Mart
Bynum

Talent wise, this team would probably be much worse than the current mix, but you have clutch shooting, good defense and a team that complements your one star player. This is exactly how the Cavs are built. If you put someone like Chris Bosh on that team, or Baron Davis or another soft quasi-all star, I think that team would get worse, not better.

Gasol is better then Bosh. Gasol is arguably having his best season as he's been a monster all year. LOL at replacing him with K-Mart.

So the conclusion is this, IMO, the Lakers supporting cast is horrendously over rated and I will be very surprised if they can win the title if it's a close series - no matter what Kobe does. I think even Utah would've had a fairly decent chance of upsetting them if they had Okur.

You would be very surprised if a team that won 65 games in a tough conference and made it to the Finals last year without two of their key players wins the title? LOL @ horrendously. Please at least hold off making excuses for Kobe until he actually does lose, which probably won't happen. The funny thing is you're actually making Kobe look bad by implying that he can't win a title with this team.

I've seen every Raptors game for the past decade. The guy takes fade aways from 16 feet out, with no time left in the deciding game of a playoff series. I don't think there is a stat for it, but he's gotten his shot blocked in the last 3 seconds of a close game more than any player in the league. And his defense is atrocious. So yeah, I'd rather have one of the Collins twins, if the game is on the line.

He's definitely not good in the clutch, but I have seen him make clutch plays. Not to mention you said last 4-5 minutes. I'd rather have someone that has a chance of making an impact in the last few minutes, then someone who is basically not going to do anything at all like the Collins twins.