How $ will Big Baby Davis get this summer?

[Lionel Messi]

If you look at his skillset...there is no way in hell the guy should be getting more than 3M in this economy.

He can hit the open jumper. Almost every contested one i've seen him take during the playoffs has missed, and sometimes brutally.

He can use his body down low after a fake on the jumper.

He is undersized, his help and faceup defense is poor. His post defense is all right.

He just fits in with the celtics very very well, a guy like rondo who can penetrate at will, ray allen, paul pierce on the wings...and a good banger down low in perkins.

Hitting the open jumper is all he needs to do, and he does it well.

My thoughts as well. He is the type of guy that really benefits from having a great play making point guard. He really cannot create his own shot, but when playing with Rondo, Peirce and Allen he gets the open looks and he can knock those down. Additionally he can sometimes score on the low post on offensive rebounds, but he is not the type of play that can back down a defender and score at will on the low post.

He will probably get over paid this summer though.

That's what I was thinking at first, but im thinking the economy might buffer that down to his actual value.

[sully00]

I have a feeling that BBD will demand more than 5 M if we can make it to the Final or even win # 18 with him being our starting PF averaging 38+ minutes. It sucks to see Powe gone..

Just to clear this up again. Baby cannot get more than the MLE, yes it is more than 5m but he is limited to the MLE as far as his salary goes.

But that's only true for the Celtics and teams over the cap, right? I may be wrong, but WE are limited to giving him the MLE because we're over the cap, but any other team out there who is under the cap could give him whatever they want, right? I think in reality, you're right - the teams under the cap are not going to go over the MLE for Baby, but I think they could if they wanted to. That's the difference between giving a second rounder a two year and a three year deal - the ability to match over the MLE, I think (the Gabe/Leon contract vs. the Baby contract). Isn't this exactly what happened to the Warriors with Arenas a while back? He was a second rounder with a two year deal, and the Warriors were helpless when the Wiz gave him $10 mil/year. Had he been given an initial 3 year deal like Leon, the Warriors could have matched. (again, I could be wrong).

Anyway, I really hope he stays and I think 4 years/$14 million is about where he'll end up ($3.5 mil/year).

Yes it is and they now have made a Gilbert Arenas Rule to protect teams from this happening. Now guys coming off of rookie deals with less than 3 years in the league are limited to the MLE which is the max the team that has his rights can pay him under the early bird exception. The MLE is the average league salary so the figure is used a couple of different times, but the exception the C's would use to sign Baby is the Early Bird (player with the same team for 2 years) it does not effect the Mid Level Exception.

The 3 year deals Ainge gives out to 2nd round picks have more to do with getting a cheap season out of a player like Leon this year. In exchange for that Ainge gives them more than the minimum and some guaranteed money. Baby gambled and appears to have won.

[Hemingway]

Over the summer say a team offers Baby the MLE and he signs the offer sheet and we match it, does that use up our MLE? I'm wondering if the summer comes down to a baby or sheed decision based on how much we want to spend or based on ony being able to sign one.

[TheSheriff]

Over the summer say a team offers Baby the MLE and he signs the offer sheet and we match it, does that use up our MLE? I'm wondering if the summer comes down to a baby or sheed decision based on how much we want to spend or based on ony being able to sign one.

It does use up the MLE, because it is early Bird Rights. But if he gets the full MLE, Wyc might not be willing to match that and pay someone else the full MLE. Doing that would basically add 11 million dollars to one of the NBA's highest payrolls.

[celtxman]

Over the summer say a team offers Baby the MLE and he signs the offer sheet and we match it, does that use up our MLE? I'm wondering if the summer comes down to a baby or sheed decision based on how much we want to spend or based on ony being able to sign one.

To me this part is the most pertinent part of the conversation. whether we sign him first, or another team does, where do we stand with his Bird rights? Do we have to sign him and bite into or use up the MLE? If he signs elsewhere can we match without using the MLE? Part of the reason Boston signed Mikki Moore and did not want to go after Joe Smith had to be that the Celtics had to use over half of last year's MLE to sign House. Cleveland was sitting in the catbird's seat knowing that if need be they could outbid Boston.
As the team goes into the off-season, it is likely that Baby will get 3.5-5 Million/per, but if Boston has to use the MLE, they will not be able to be in the running for Rasheed Wallace or McDyess, which everyone agrees is a need - quality length. The Celtics need to do a better job in the off-season this time around, and now having expiring contracts (Scal, Tony Allen, Pruitt to do this with.)

[humblebum]

I highly, highly doubt that the Celtics will pay Davis a dollar more than they've paid Kendrick Perkins. It's really not justifiable for them to do so. If some team wants to swoop in and pay Glen Davis, who despite his performance of late, is ultimately a role player, if some team wants to pay him 4.5 million or the full MLE the Celtics will let Davis walk. For the Celtics he simply doesn't hold that kind of value... especially not in this market. I'd say that 4 million per is about as high as the Celtics would be willing to go and even that would be pretty rich. I'd envision something more along the lines of 3 years 10 million.

Frankly, I'm not a believer in bringing Sheed into the fold EDIT without bring in/back a younger energy big. With KG's injury/age question mark I'm not sure the team wants to rely on a older guy to provide the spark off the bench. The Celtics need the energy of a Powe-Davis to boost them up off the bench.

[sully00]

I will try and say this a different way to see if people can get a handle on it.

Everyone understands there is a salary cap, to sign a player to a contract above that number you have to use an exception, there are several different exceptions teams can use.

For players that were previously under contract with the team the team has 3 options:

Non Bird Exception - 1 year or less, 20% raise
Early Bird Exception - 2 years under contract, a contract limited to the league avg salary (the same amount as the MLE).
Bird Exception - 3 years under contract, anything to the max.

For non roster players (as well as Non Bird FAs).

Veteran Minimum - up to 2 years based on years in the league team pays the 2 year number to everyone. Can be used as many times as needed.
Bi Annual Exception - can be used once every other year for contract up to two years starting at about 1.9 mil
MId Level Exception - Every season for every team over the cap. Equal to the league avg salary in the first year and can be divided up between players.

So to re-sign Baby, Boston would use their Early Bird exception. it has no impact on the MLE, similar to when they signed Blount. Now to re-sign Marbury they are limited to a 20% raise or one of the non roster exceptions similar to Eddie House this season.

So Boston can re-sign Baby and they give Sheed the full MLE.

[sully00]

As far as the "market" for Baby it is what one team will pay him and what it will cost Boston to replace him. I agree I am not excited about the idea of paying him more than they pay Perk at the same time that was an extension, it was below market, and it was 3 years ago.

You have to look at recent deals to similar players and that puts Baby in the 4-5 mil range, based on Maxiell, Turiaff, Gomes, Varejao, Songalia, Kwame Brown, and Walton.

While economic factors are going to play into free agency, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is going to be hard for Baby to get a deal. Restricted FA's especially guys limited to the MLE may be more popular than usual as teams look to spend their money efficiently and may not want to deal with waiting around for guys to face the reality that 10 mil a season isn't coming their way. If Baby hits FA it will show that Boston may be reluctant to go to the MLE to keep him so it makes him a viable target for an offer sheet.

But more importantly is this team is really thin in the front court, with Powe injured that leaves KG, Perk, and Scal under contract. If they lose Baby then instead of adding a 5th rotation big with the MLE they are replacing Davis and still looking to find a big man that can play with the vet minimum or in the draft.

[Celtics_Champs]

We might need to forget sheed. He's considering retirement

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[realfung]

I don't think Big baby deserves more than a 3 year - 15 mil.
He is soft and fragile.

[sully00]

I don't think Big baby deserves more than a 3 year - 15 mil.
He is soft and fragile.

Yeah obviously he is made of glass compared to KG, Perk, Scal, and Powe, huh?