Don't get down on Horf

[tbhawksfan]

He played 33.5 minutes against C giving up 2 or 3 inches and 30, 40 lbs for an entire season. He put up pretty good numbers doing it.

Before you talk about trading him, give him a C and better coaching.

Horford is the kind of player you don't trade.

I really think we have an impossible jam at PF with Smoove and Horf. I don't want to trade either, but reality seems to dictate that we need to balance the team.

What do we do?

Only three real options; trade Horf, trade Smoove or trade neither. It is possible to keep both and bring in a guy like Brad Miller to work a rotation with Miller and Horf sharing C, Smoove and Horf sharing PF and Smoove sliding to SF for a few.

What's the best senario? Who could we get in each senario?

[evildallas]

There is no good trade value out there for either in my opinion. My feeling is we need another big (in addition to Josh, Al, and Zaza) to take Solomon Jones roster spot with greater length to add into the substitution patterns. I also like to add a bulky PF into the mix as well (or give Hunter more court time). Look at Boston for instance, they have KG and Perkins start with Powe, Davis, and Moore off the bench. We essentially have only Zaza off the bench because the lack of minutes (or trust) for Solomon, Randolph, and Hunter. I think the depth would help in allowing for more situational substitution for specific match ups, better injury coverage, and keeping players fresh in games and over the long haul.

[rclear8407]

I agree with you in that I would like to keep both of them. Because there are very few All-Star centers in the league i think that starting smoove and horford at the 4 and 5 works out fine most of the time....BUT we need a defensive big man at the 5 to guard those few all-stars (D. Howard, SHAQ, Yao, maybe 1 or 2 more) since horford is undersized. Horford could play a majority of the time at the 5 and then split time at the 4 with Smoove when necessary.

Smoove should never play the 3 again in my opinion. He is a very good player when he is at the 4 and has his head in the game, but we he doesn't then he settles for jumpers. When he is at the 3 he hangs out at the wings and can't resist launching threes when no one comes out to guard him.

[mr_grabb]

I agree with most of that, but if we want Josh Smith to play ONLY at the 4, we absolutely need to change the coach. Smith is not a bad 4, but the way he plays (or is it the way he's being asked to play) if not his back to the basket, and it looks like he's allowed to shoot 3s. Which is horrible.

Im OK at best with a front court of Al and Smith, but we need to define a better offensive scheme. Actually, not only for these two. For the whole team.

I still think it would be better, at this point, to trade Smith for a real center (probably not an all-star), along with other pieces.

[johnny878]

Here is where you fail.

you assume that horford would actually morph into a good player if he was moved to power forward.

Yet he has played pf for a long period of time(when smith was out) and his numbers were exactly the same as they were at the C spot. So what gives? I thought he was supposed to be so good at the 4?

and he put up good numbers? he put up numbers equievlent to most rookie bigs.

Lopez=13 and 8 in fewer minutes
Love-11 and 9 in far fewer minutes
Gasol- 12 and 7.5 in fewer minuts
Thompson 11 and 7.5 in fewer minutes
Oden- 9 and 8 in far fewer minutes

horford 11 and 9 in most minutes played and a year of experience over all them

[BMF Jet Jaguar]

^chill out

greg oden is the number one pick in the draft. hes supposed to be putting up better numbers

those other 4 teams didnt make the playoffs and none of them have winning records, most are cleaning up the bottom of the lottery. Put Al horford on the grizzlies, starting with hakeem warrick, or the wolves, starting with ryan gomes or bryan cardinal, or the kings or the nets, and hed be putting up 15/12.

[johnny878]

why would his numbers go up when

1) if he played the 20-25 minutes those guys are playing compared to his 33

2) he wouldnt get as good of looks on the offensive end

[tbhawksfan]

johnny: Horford came into the league a good player. He doesn't need to become "good". Every player you listed as having compareable #'s is on a pitiful team where they get more opportunities to score; except #1 pick Oden, who is on a good team and puts up much inferiour #'s as compared to Horford.

I also would prefere to bring in a quality C to add to the rotation. I think Horford is already a very valuable all-round asset to the team. I love me some Smoove, but he is the player that needs to evolve, not Horford.

Smoove still has super-star type potential if he ever gets it. Horford is a Duncan type who improves the whole team around him. Woodson's schemes do not provide Horford with stat padding opportunities. We have almost no inside strategy save the lob slam (allez oop?).

Give the boys some coaching and that will change and our PF/C rotation will put up better #'s, providing the team with the better balance that it needs to move to the next level.

[johnny878]

lol wow,

Horford is a duncan type?

Duncan has a great post game. Horford has no post game.

Duncan is a lock down man defender. Horford is a bad man defender.


they couldnt be further apart.

horford brings rebounding and some put back dunks.

[Harry10]

i'm try to support Al, but one thing i can't defend him on is his bad hands...... i don't care if he plays out of position, that is not an excuse to be so clumsy catching and holding the ball.

[Harry10]

lol wow,

Horford is a duncan type?

Duncan has a great post game. Horford has no post game.

Duncan is a lock down man defender. Horford is a bad man defender.


they couldnt be further apart.

horford brings rebounding and some put back dunks.

i always thought of Horford at the moment, as a guy who brings rebounding and energy

[tbhawksfan]

In the Duncan comparaison, I was talking more about his character and team contribution. It's clear that Horf isn't the offensive player that Duncan is, but I think Horford contributes the boards, athleticism, leadership and poise to make the comparaison. I also expect his O to get better.

He doesn't need to make too much progress to be an all-star contender at C, but I think it would help him immensely to work with a C and get at least half his time at PF.

I started a Bibby S&T on the T board and this seems possible:

Bibby/Speedy/#21/2010 second

for

Baron/Skinner/#3

Horford/Zaza/Thabeet
Smoove/Skinner
MW/Mo
JJ/Flip
Baron/Law

and a new coach. Love it!