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Jordan23Forever wrote:Sample size for Artest is small, granted. Unfortunately he was suspended/injured for much of the next two seasons.How can you not call 40% shooting struggling? You said that he's never struggled against Bowen, and I just showed you a 5+ season stretch (17 meetings) that most would consider struggling (on average; he did have a couple of good games in there). I'm actually not dogging Kobe for his shooting here (though I could
), just saying that I don't think your point is necessarily valid.
Showtime:Part2 wrote:LA's bench sucks this year, with the exception of lamar (he plays starter minutes though). if you are consistently giving up a 20 pt lead that the starting unit built up, you suck.
wreck wrote:Showtime:Part2 wrote:LA's bench sucks this year, with the exception of lamar (he plays starter minutes though). if you are consistently giving up a 20 pt lead that the starting unit built up, you suck.
What 20 point lead do the starts build up? Are you using Game 5 vs. Utah as your only example?
Last I checked, in most games the bench normally comes in to start the 2nd quarter and takes the lead or increases the lead until the starters come back in and make the game close again.
EHL wrote: And that overall that's against defense better than at any prior point in NBA history including any team Jordan ever saw (as if anyone here is really impressed with someone dominating 6'4" 190lbs John Starks who can't touch Bowen, or even driving on Ewing himself who was really, in the end, as soft as David Robinson).
EHL wrote:Kobe averaged 28 ppg on just a hair under 45% shooting against Bowen and the Spurs during their 3 combined postseason matchups (2002, 2003, and 2004). If you include the 2008 postseason it's even higher after he averaged 26 ppg on 53%. No one cares about regular season matchups if he was consistently dominating in the postseason. And that overall that's against defense better than at any prior point in NBA history including any team Jordan ever saw (as if anyone here is really impressed with someone dominating 6'4" 190lbs John Starks who can't touch Bowen, or even driving on Ewing himself who was really, in the end, as soft as David Robinson).
guy1 wrote:EHL wrote:Kobe averaged 28 ppg on just a hair under 45% shooting against Bowen and the Spurs during their 3 combined postseason matchups (2002, 2003, and 2004). If you include the 2008 postseason it's even higher after he averaged 26 ppg on 53%. No one cares about regular season matchups if he was consistently dominating in the postseason. And that overall that's against defense better than at any prior point in NBA history including any team Jordan ever saw (as if anyone here is really impressed with someone dominating 6'4" 190lbs John Starks who can't touch Bowen, or even driving on Ewing himself who was really, in the end, as soft as David Robinson).
John Starks might not be as good of a defender as Bowen, but since he was allowed to do more on defense because of lesser rules, he was probably just as effective as Bowen is. And you lose credibility with that last statement. Robinson is without a doubt one of the greatest defenders ever, and Ewing was great also.
guy1 wrote:EHL wrote:Kobe averaged 28 ppg on just a hair under 45% shooting against Bowen and the Spurs during their 3 combined postseason matchups (2002, 2003, and 2004). If you include the 2008 postseason it's even higher after he averaged 26 ppg on 53%. No one cares about regular season matchups if he was consistently dominating in the postseason. And that overall that's against defense better than at any prior point in NBA history including any team Jordan ever saw (as if anyone here is really impressed with someone dominating 6'4" 190lbs John Starks who can't touch Bowen, or even driving on Ewing himself who was really, in the end, as soft as David Robinson).
John Starks might not be as good of a defender as Bowen, but since he was allowed to do more on defense because of lesser rules, he was probably just as effective as Bowen is. And you lose credibility with that last statement. Robinson is without a doubt one of the greatest defenders ever, and Ewing was great also.
Silver Bullet wrote:guy1 wrote:EHL wrote:Kobe averaged 28 ppg on just a hair under 45% shooting against Bowen and the Spurs during their 3 combined postseason matchups (2002, 2003, and 2004). If you include the 2008 postseason it's even higher after he averaged 26 ppg on 53%. No one cares about regular season matchups if he was consistently dominating in the postseason. And that overall that's against defense better than at any prior point in NBA history including any team Jordan ever saw (as if anyone here is really impressed with someone dominating 6'4" 190lbs John Starks who can't touch Bowen, or even driving on Ewing himself who was really, in the end, as soft as David Robinson).
John Starks might not be as good of a defender as Bowen, but since he was allowed to do more on defense because of lesser rules, he was probably just as effective as Bowen is. And you lose credibility with that last statement. Robinson is without a doubt one of the greatest defenders ever, and Ewing was great also.
that's really a myth. Premier defenders in the NBA, in the post-season, are allowed as much contact as they ever have. Are you telling me the Celtics were called for touch fouls and hand checks.
Silver Bullet wrote:guy1 wrote:EHL wrote:Kobe averaged 28 ppg on just a hair under 45% shooting against Bowen and the Spurs during their 3 combined postseason matchups (2002, 2003, and 2004). If you include the 2008 postseason it's even higher after he averaged 26 ppg on 53%. No one cares about regular season matchups if he was consistently dominating in the postseason. And that overall that's against defense better than at any prior point in NBA history including any team Jordan ever saw (as if anyone here is really impressed with someone dominating 6'4" 190lbs John Starks who can't touch Bowen, or even driving on Ewing himself who was really, in the end, as soft as David Robinson).
John Starks might not be as good of a defender as Bowen, but since he was allowed to do more on defense because of lesser rules, he was probably just as effective as Bowen is. And you lose credibility with that last statement. Robinson is without a doubt one of the greatest defenders ever, and Ewing was great also.
that's really a myth. Premier defenders in the NBA, in the post-season, are allowed as much contact as they ever have. Are you telling me the Celtics were called for touch fouls and hand checks.
ugkfan2681" wrote: wrote: i dont take **** lightly im from the land of the trill home of the rockets RESPECT OK.
Why do people continue to overlook what any Cleveland player not named LeBron brings to the table? Because most people have a very narrow, shallow definition of talent. For the average person, talent means an ability to create your own shot and score in a one-on-one situation. Why? Because that’s the skill most visible to the casual, naked eye. More subtle skills like boxing out, rebounding, position defense, setting screens, and rotations escape the notice of the average observer.
It’s easy to see why the Lakers are perceived to be so talented. One has to pay a little attention to notice Gasol’s softness (uncontested dunks galore, from Leon Powe to Carlos Boozer, and an inability to rebound in double figures), Odom’s inconsistency, and how little Bynum has actually shown. This isn’t to say the Lakers aren’t talented. They are one of the most talented teams in the league, without a doubt. It just so happens that their talent is exaggerated while Cleveland’s talent is overlooked. Superficial observers and media hype are the reasons.
Silver Bullet wrote:Excellent article - A few choice quotes.Why do people continue to overlook what any Cleveland player not named LeBron brings to the table? Because most people have a very narrow, shallow definition of talent. For the average person, talent means an ability to create your own shot and score in a one-on-one situation. Why? Because that’s the skill most visible to the casual, naked eye. More subtle skills like boxing out, rebounding, position defense, setting screens, and rotations escape the notice of the average observer.It’s easy to see why the Lakers are perceived to be so talented. One has to pay a little attention to notice Gasol’s softness (uncontested dunks galore, from Leon Powe to Carlos Boozer, and an inability to rebound in double figures), Odom’s inconsistency, and how little Bynum has actually shown. This isn’t to say the Lakers aren’t talented. They are one of the most talented teams in the league, without a doubt. It just so happens that their talent is exaggerated while Cleveland’s talent is overlooked. Superficial observers and media hype are the reasons.
guy1 wrote:Silver Bullet wrote:Excellent article - A few choice quotes.Why do people continue to overlook what any Cleveland player not named LeBron brings to the table? Because most people have a very narrow, shallow definition of talent. For the average person, talent means an ability to create your own shot and score in a one-on-one situation. Why? Because that’s the skill most visible to the casual, naked eye. More subtle skills like boxing out, rebounding, position defense, setting screens, and rotations escape the notice of the average observer.It’s easy to see why the Lakers are perceived to be so talented. One has to pay a little attention to notice Gasol’s softness (uncontested dunks galore, from Leon Powe to Carlos Boozer, and an inability to rebound in double figures), Odom’s inconsistency, and how little Bynum has actually shown. This isn’t to say the Lakers aren’t talented. They are one of the most talented teams in the league, without a doubt. It just so happens that their talent is exaggerated while Cleveland’s talent is overlooked. Superficial observers and media hype are the reasons.
Just cause Lebron's supporting cast is underrated that doesn't mean Kobe's is overrated. Maybe it shouldnt come as a shock if the Cavs beat the Lakers, but unless Kobe plays absolutely amazing while the cast stinks it up and they lose which I highly doubt will happen, then Kobe fans can't blame it on the cast for losing and they should acknowledge that Kobe's legacy takes a hit. And unless Lebron plays like absolute crap, if the Lakers lose to the Cavs, Lebron should be considered by everyone to be the better player.