should we still trade smith, to build around horford @4

[conleyorbust]

I just don't see any point of pulling the plays of an offense where the offensive personnel is vastly superior. The teams are just in different situations for what would work. When an offense has pieces that are limited I think its far more useful to look at plays that work for similar players.
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kb, c'mon. Is the reason we don't run the 1-4 pick and roll because there is no point in using that play without Malone and Stockton? No, because that logic is stupid if the players that you DO have can actually be effective in that play.

I was responding to this quote from you:

I think that the best way to use him is to let him work on the backside of the defense and start to cut and pick once someone has drawn a doubleteam and the defense is moving- this mimics transition as much as possible which is of course where he excels.

Phoenix found ways to get Marion oops in the half-court without anyone drawing a double, often he'd either straight up out quick his man or come off a screen on the perimeter and catch a lob from Nash at the hoop. You haven't said why this play wouldn't work for us other than to imply that you can only run plays if you have the superlative player for that play in any given case.

[johnny878]

it doesnt matter if the hawks ahve players as good as phx. they need to be running an uptempo offense. Getting set in the halfcourt is so stupid for the hawks. They have no one with a good post game and no one who can really break down the defense.

[parson]

johnny, I agree in principle with you but you've got to realize that it's hard, hard, hard to run in the playoffs. Even PHO couldn't run as much -- that's why they changed directions.

[killbuckner]

COB- because Marion was a vastly superior outside shooter teams had to follow him further out to the perimeter so he had more room to attack the basket in space. I don't think it works nearly as well for JOsh smith to try and beat his man to the basket from the backside when the guy already has an 8 foot headstart. Marion could play on the perimeter and draw his guy away from the basket where Josh Smith doesn't command that same level of respect.

[HeyIt'sMe]

Wow, has this board turned on Horford. He is what he is right now... a solid player who gives you 11-12 PPG, and 9-10 RPG while also being a well above average passer and ball handler for his position. He can also knock down the mid-range J with consistency (most teams would love a big who could give them those numbers). He sure as hell doesn't suck.

If you want, we'll take him in Orlando. He'd fit in beautifully next to Howard at the 4 with his passing and shooting ability.

[parson]

Great idea!

What would you take for Howard?

[HMFFL]

Wow, has this board turned on Horford. He is what he is right now... a solid player who gives you 11-12 PPG, and 9-10 RPG while also being a well above average passer and ball handler for his position. He can also knock down the mid-range J with consistency (most teams would love a big who could give them those numbers). He sure as hell doesn't suck.

If you want, we'll take him in Orlando. He'd fit in beautifully next to Howard at the 4 with his passing and shooting ability.

Horford has been horrible so far during the playoffs. The key thing you said is that you would play him at the 4 which tells me you can't relate to how frustrating it's been for us to have him at the 5.

[HeyIt'sMe]

Has he really been that bad, though? He had solid numbers in the first three games, a poor game four, and then got injured in game five. I haven't really watched much of the series, but it doesn't seem like he's been that terrible.

[conleyorbust]

Has he really been that bad, though? He had solid numbers in the first three games, a poor game four, and then got injured in game five. I haven't really watched much of the series, but it doesn't seem like he's been that terrible.

Hasn't been awful. I've been disappointed though because I thought this was a good series for him because he had such an athleticism mismatch against the Heat front line and he should be able to contain JO without too much difficulty but he hasn't had any big games, hasn't forced the action, and has been an easy target for JO.

[JoshB914]

Wow, has this board turned on Horford. He is what he is right now... a solid player who gives you 11-12 PPG, and 9-10 RPG while also being a well above average passer and ball handler for his position. He can also knock down the mid-range J with consistency (most teams would love a big who could give them those numbers). He sure as hell doesn't suck.

If you want, we'll take him in Orlando. He'd fit in beautifully next to Howard at the 4 with his passing and shooting ability.

I don't think it's that we have turned on Horford. I think it's more so that a lot of people point out his deficiencies a lot to prove that he isn't the 20/10 player that many thought he would be after last season.

He is exactly you said, a solid player who can knock down the mid-range jumper.

[killbuckner]

He has been a good defense/rebounding guy- but people here thought his development would explode and turn into an allstar type player this season which just hasn't happened. When you have guys on the board who still thought that he could turn into Karl Malone its hard to not sound disappointed if they end up less than that even if they are still a very useful player.

[raleigh]

The reality is that all the Hawks need from their PF is what Horford gives them. That is, if they have a starting-caliber CR next to him.

[parson]

Agreed, but, for the nth time, who is that starting-caliber center? We have a GM who has displayed an almost irrational love of centers (approaching my own). If he can't find one in a trade ...

[conleyorbust]

I think Al would be a great complement to a dominant low post C who commands a double in the low post because Al is a solid passer and midrange shooter so he could help feed a guy like Dwight/Duncan/Yao or he could nail midrange jumpers off of doubles to those guys. The issue is that its harder to find one of those guys than it is to find guys who would complement them...

[johnny878]

my sole problem with Al is that people keep saying that the hawks should trade Josh or Marvin so they could move him to the 4.

This is mind boggling for 2 reasons

1) he played the 4 when smith was out and put up the exact same numbers.

2. He has shown less potential or growth(in marvins case) that Josh Smith and Marvin has shown. he hasnt shown ANYTHING that would make me want to trade one of those two to allow him to play a 4 just to hope he became more than a Haslem type of player.

[Rod700]

He has shown less potential or growth(in marvins case) that Josh Smith and Marvin has shown. he hasnt shown ANYTHING that would make me want to trade one of those two to allow him to play a 4 just to hope he became more than a Haslem type of player.

I think Marv has shown a lot of growth, but I don't think he's shown more potential. Both players put up solid numbers since their rookie year, and both are all around solid (although not flashy) players. I think that Horford made less goofy plays and bad decisions in his first 2 years than Marv, but we will attribute that to his longer stay in college, and call it even. Marv added a three point shot to his game, but Horford didn't have much of an offensive game at all, and he has added a very impressive jump hook, improved his jumper, and utilized sort of a poor man's "Dream Shake" into a fade away jumper that we have seen on rare occassions. I think Horford might have more potential than Marv, especially since Marv may lack that killer instinct to ever lead a team or take over in the clutch, which is what he needs in order to surpass Horford.

Smith has shown more growth than Horford (although Horford has only been in the league for 2 years, but that means he has more trade value to. My mindset is that, if we are trading anyone, we are trading to bring in a star. That either involves Josh Smith in a trade to bring in a star to play alongside Joe, or it involves Joe Johnson (and Horford or Marv (in a S&T)) in a trade that brings in a mega star (which is less likely).

Thus I'm saying Marv doesn't have more potential than Horford, making him easier to part with, but Smith has more trade value than Horford, and is a more likely trade piece based on the above. That said, I would trade any of these guys for a star.

[killbuckner]

Rod- I think that Horford has signifcantly more trade value than Smith at this point which is why I would look to deal Horford. I think that Horford still has that new car smell where people are willing to overlook deficiencies because they think he might just be young. With Smith the warts are well known.

[ATL1en]

Why do these stupid post come up, why trade either?