Reggie vs. Ray

cdash · Post #1 » by **cdash** » Fri May 1, 2009 4:27 am

So I post on Peegs, which is an IU basketball forum. With all these Ray Allen heroics, people are actually arguing that Allen is more CLUTCH than Reggie Miller. I called shenanigans, and I have a bunch of people arguing against me. I realize I am in no way rational about Miller, but Ray Allen? More clutch than Miller? Please. What are your thoughts, other biased Reggie fans?

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #2 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Fri May 1, 2009 4:45 am

I tried avoiding arguing with people who have no idea what they are talking about. Ray Allen is probably more explosive than Reggie Miller, but to say he is more clutch is absolutely ridiculous. I'd bet that those people arguing with you are not older than 13, if any of them are, they clearly didn't watch basketball in the 90's.

cdash · Post #3 » by **cdash** » Fri May 1, 2009 4:54 am

DGrangeRx33 wrote:I tried avoiding arguing with people who have no idea what they are talking about. Ray Allen is probably more explosive than Reggie Miller, but to say he is more clutch is absolutely ridiculous. I'd bet that those people arguing with you are not older than 13, if any of them are, they clearly didn't watch basketball in the 90's.

I know one of them is in his 40s or 50s. He tends to be a bitter SOB though, and likes to play JJSG games and entice people into bickering.

We are talking clutch. That's it. I'm not arguing that Ray Allen isn't a better player than Reggie (I don't think he is though), just who is better in the clutch.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #4 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Fri May 1, 2009 5:01 am

Oh I don't think hes better either, I'm just saying a case could be made for him being a more explosive scorer(attributed to less talented teams), but theres no case with clutchness and leadership.

Post #5 » by **Miller4ever** » Fri May 1, 2009 5:18 am

Ray Allen will have more chances to prove himself, and he's not done yet. I think that Reggie Miller has had more remarkable moments, but Ray Allen also has ice water in his veins. I give both of them even grades on clutch potential, but Reggie has converted more times. Ray Allen obviously didn't ultimately deliver tonight, but he's had his share of game-winners. Reggie Miller is one of the all-time clutch players, and anybody who has followed his career will agree.

Reggie Miller forever.

chatard5 · Post #6 » by **chatard5** » Fri May 1, 2009 5:36 am

If I am not mistaken, I believe a few people on these message boards are on here because of Reggie Miller. They became Pacer fans when watching Reggie and his clutchness. If you like a player for being clutch, then you aren't really biased, because that's the reason you liked him in the first place, right?

I would take Reggie over any player to take the final shot of the game, besides Jordan. Ray Allen has hit a few clutch shots, but Reggie would hit a couple each postseason! If you need me to search youtube and get 10 clutch videos of Reg just let me know.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #7 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Fri May 1, 2009 5:42 am

chatard5 wrote:If I am not mistaken, I believe a few people on these message boards are on here because of Reggie Miller. They became Pacer fans when watching Reggie and his clutchness. If you like a player for being clutch, then you aren't really biased, because that's the reason you liked him in the first place, right?

I would take Reggie over any player to take the final shot of the game, besides Jordan. Ray Allen has hit a few clutch shots, but Reggie would hit a couple each postseason! If you need me to search youtube and get 10 clutch videos of Reg just let me know.

I'd rather have Reggie than Jordan on the last shot. Jordan was the greatest player of all time, because of that his game winners were publicized a lot more. Don't get me wrong, Jordan was still one of the clutchest players ever, but I'd take Reggie over him on the final shot of the game.

Note: Thats just final shot, give me 4th quarter Jordan over 4th quarter Reggie.

Post #8 » by **Miller4ever** » Fri May 1, 2009 6:03 am

Unless Reggie's doing that thing when he scores 25 against the Knicks.

Also, Ray Allen as a player is a permutation of Reggie Miller: three-point marksmen with extra skills. I'd say Paul Pierce is a better clutch player than Ray Allen, except he's refuting that claim himself by really stinking up during the series.

chatard5 · Post #9 » by **chatard5** » Fri May 1, 2009 7:58 am

I would take MJ over Reggie for everything, I think. Well, if my team was down 3 and had .9 seconds left, I would rather have Reggie shoot than MJ (different because they know the 3 is coming. Reggie could draw a foul better as well). A last-second 2 point shot I am going MJ. If my team is down 2 with a second left and I could give it to anyone it's between MJ and Reggie. I think I have to go MJ. So I would choose Reggie over MJ for FTs and shooting a last-second 3, but only if we are down by 3. Sorry Reg, anyone else and I easily pick you!

chatard5 · Post #10 » by **chatard5** » Fri May 1, 2009 7:59 am

Oh yeah, and for last second shot Ray Allen would probably be about 8th (including guys like MJ and Bird who played in the 90s, not guys in the 70s, though, just cause I don't know all the players back then).

cdash · Post #11 » by **cdash** » Fri May 1, 2009 12:52 pm

Ray Allen, in the annals of history, wouldn't make my top 20 of players who I'd want to take the last shot in a close game. Hell, Paul Pierce is more clutch than Ray Allen.

basketballwacko2 · Post #12 » by **basketballwacko2** » Fri May 1, 2009 3:30 pm

Any of you guys remember what Reggie did to the knicks a few years ago?

[img]
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_43wBZBANWlI/S ... _choke.jpg
[/img]

Post #13 » by **pacers33granger** » Fri May 1, 2009 4:25 pm

the big thing for me in the reggie vs ray debate (which i hear constantly being a pacers fan and living in new england), is that reggie did it more when it mattered. allen has had his share of clutch performances in big games, but nothing like what reggie did to the knicks or his shot on the bulls. plus id argue that reggie went against better perimeter defenders (i.e. jordan) than the majority of today's players.

Post #14 » by **pacers33granger** » Fri May 1, 2009 4:29 pm

cdash wrote:Ray Allen, in the annals of history, wouldn't make my top 20 of players who I'd want to take the last shot in a close game. Hell, Paul Pierce is more clutch than Ray Allen.

sorry cdash but i have to disagree with you on this. id probably have ray in my top 20, not top 10 though. pierce is not as clutch as people make him out to be. people seem to forget all the years he was the best players on his team and they didnt have allen and garnett. the only time he went anywhere in the playoffs, antoine walker was still the man in boston. he has made some big shots lately, but i think thats more due to having better teammates and getting better looks because of it.

i cant count how many threes with less than 2 mins left pierce bricked before the big three was assembled.

cdash · Post #15 » by **cdash** » Fri May 1, 2009 8:00 pm

I rescind my comment about Pierce being more clutch, but I still don't know if Ray Allen is in the top 20 in NBA history. He didn't do a damned thing before last year, and he is the third banana in Boston. Just can't do it. His overall resume isn't that strong. People are getting way too swept up in this Celtics-Bulls series.

xxSnEaKyPxx · Post #16 » by **xxSnEaKyPxx** » Fri May 1, 2009 8:08 pm

Yea, Pierce has really sucked in the 4th this series...he's always turning the ball over.

chatard5 · Post #17 » by **chatard5** » Fri May 1, 2009 9:37 pm

basketballwacko2 wrote:Any of you guys remember what Reggie did to the knicks a few years ago?

[img]
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_43wBZBANWlI/S ... _choke.jpg
[/img]

OMG, Reggie killed them?! How did that not get on the news.

chatard5 · Post #18 » by **chatard5** » Fri May 1, 2009 9:41 pm

I think Allen is in the top 10 of current players. Not 8th including MJ... You gotta include guys like Horry and many others in the discussion.

1. MJ
2. Reggie
3. Horry

I can see people arguing Reggie to be first. I can also understand an argument for Horry being ahead of Reggie.

Current NBA though? Kobe #1, after that I am not sure.

Post #19 » by **Gremz** » Sat May 2, 2009 10:58 am

I'll always take Reggie in this debate. But I honestly think Ray Allen is getting a bit of stick here. He's actually 3rd on the current players list of most FGs made with 24 seconds or less remaining, with his team trailing by 1 or 2 points.

It's not that i think he should deserve Reggie status, but he has proved to be a viable option.

As for all time?

1. Reggie Miller (simply cause he did it for 20 years, I mean come on!)
2. Michael Jordan
2. Larry Bird
4. Jerry West

chatard5 · Post #20 » by **chatard5** » Sat May 2, 2009 1:32 pm

Bird is #4. But Horry is amazing. Did he EVER miss a big shot? Reggie missed one in the finals, and missed one now-and-then. He hit more than he missed though. I am trying not to be too biased, and I think non-Pacer fans would pick MJ, but I think they would also severely underrate Reggie. The Knicks would say Reggie if they are honest.