Woodson earns validation

[HMFFL]

Two months ago, the Hawks were coming off a loss in Charlotte that dropped them to 2-6 in a stretch and 13-18 since January. They were sliding. They had an enigmatic star (Josh Smith) and a combustible coach (Mike Woodson) who were having a very public feud.

Woodson, the aforementioned coach, took the brunt of the criticism. It happens. When a coach goes 106-222 in his first four seasons, he gets a lot of things thrown his way. One of them is not the benefit of the doubt.

It follows that when new general manager Rick Sund decided to bring Woodson back – albeit with a lukewarm two-year contract – the public response was mixed.

But Tuesday night, the Hawks are some place few figured they would be: In Cleveland. In the playoffs. Playing.

It doesn’t matter that the Hawks are massive underdogs against LeBron James and the Cavaliers. It doesn’t matter if this series goes four games, five or seven. They won a playoff round. That alone validates a 47-win season.

It also validates Mike Woodson as a head coach.

You won’t hear this from Woodson. The man is overly sensitive. He doesn’t take criticism well. He gets prickly. He lets things that are said or written about him consume him. But the last thing he is going to do now – particularly on the eve of a playoff series – is make himself the story.

But if he’s bubbling over with I-told-you-so, well, he deserves to.

When asked Monday if he believed his coach felt vindicated, Josh Smith said: “Probably so. He probably deserves it just as much as we do. Of all the criticism he had to face during his career while being here, I know he feels relieved. He might not say it, but you can tell a big weight is lifted off his chest.”

How?

“I can just tell by the way he’s walking around and acting. He’s interacting with everybody. He’s real excited. But he’s also determined to prove something this series as well.”

Link

[johnny878]

woodson is the worst coach in the league

[JoshB914]

If Woodson is actually the worst coach in the league then that just shows it doesn't matter who the coach is anyway. I have a hard time believing that we are one of the 8 best teams in the league with the "worst coach in the league" on the bench.

[johnny878]

If Woodson is actually the worst coach in the league then that just shows it doesn't matter who the coach is anyway. I have a hard time believing that we are one of the 8 best teams in the league with the "worst coach in the league" on the bench.

its a players league and the hawks have one of the better startin 5.

show me a team in the east that finished below the hawks with more talent.

[HoopsGuru25]

Most fans just look at the coach as if anyone would be an improvement. I don't like Woodson but his defensive schemes vs Miami were pretty much as good as anyone could have hoped for. Wade was basically kept inside the Hawks defensive "wall"(as they put it in the media)for the entire series w/ the exception of game 6. The Hawks played like crap on the road and our halfcourt offense looked as ugly as ever...but you do have to give him some credit as a defensive coach.

I don't think Woodson is the worst coach in the league...it's just that the ones who are worse usually don't get 5 full years(in couting)in the same city.

[BAMABIRD]

Im not a big Woodson fan but in no way is he the worst coach in the league, no way. Mike Woodson is no different from Mike Brown... Give Woody Lebron and see how many more wins the Hawks have.

[mr_grabb]

You guys are harsh. Woodson is the SECOND worst coach of the NBA. Dunleavy is simply horrible for the Clips. He's the only coach in the league for who I seriously can't find a reason why he still has a job.

[killbuckner]

johnny878- do you think the Hawks would have been a top 3 seed with a different coach? I am still just astounded that Woodson gets no credit for anything that happens. Bibby declines for 3 seasons in a row and has by far his best season but Woodson gets no credit for how he was used. The Hawks pick flip Murray off of the scrap heap and he turns into an asset that people are genuinely counting on and Woodson gets no credit for that. The only offenses this season more efficient than the Hawks were

Phoenix
Portland
Lakers
Cleveland
Dallas
Boston
Denver
Orlando
Utah

But of course Woodson gets no credit for that even though I don't think that many would argue that the Hawks have the roster where they should have had a better offense than any of those teams.

[td00]

Here is credit for what Woodson has done to keep this team playing together. I don't see or hear anyone blaming the others, or the coaching staff. The wins come hard, the losses come hard, and here they are in the Elite 8, and every team would like to be where the Hawks are: a chance to play the Cavs in the playoffs.
Woodson has ensured additional years as the HC here. I didn't want to continue keeping him around, and he may outlast the owners eventually. He has improved every year. He no longer ranks IMO as the worse Hawks coach in history. He is slowly climbing that ladder to respectability.
He is the only Hawks coach to have won a 7 game series. Enough said at this point.
We play well at home, terrible on the road, but found a way to win one road game.

Support this team and the coach. He isn't going anywhere despite the lack of respect he gets from his own fans. He handles it professionally and is growing in the job. It shows.

[evildallas]

I know that studies show that NBA coach is worth very few games to the overall record. They probably have greater value in the post-season, but still not as much as the players. The gap between 4th and 3rd was so great that a coach replacement wouldn't be enough to breach the gap.

I've been anti-Woodson for years and still don't like the lack of offense schemes and not recognizing when his defensive strategy is going to get shredded. When it works it's beautiful, but when it doesn't match up well it is ugly and easy to exploit. I also still question whether a different voice might be needed to reach certain players.

Having said all that, I can't argue with results. The team's progressed and if it is still progressing further in his final contract year then he'll earn a big extension. EARN. At bare minimum he's already earned the right to finish out his current deal without fear of early replacement. This isn't a guy without any success who gets retained because ownership doesn't want to pay 2 coaches. That he's earned the job makes me respect him. I don't know what individual things he should get credit for, but I do know the collective results of 47 wins, a playoff series win,

[Rod700]

If Woodson is actually the worst coach in the league then that just shows it doesn't matter who the coach is anyway. I have a hard time believing that we are one of the 8 best teams in the league with the "worst coach in the league" on the bench.

We aren't the 8th best team in the league. According to our record, we are the 12th best team in the league. I know you are looking at our playoff seeding, but in the West, our record wouldn't have even gotten us into the playoffs.

I think out team is the perfect example of how far physical talent can take you without coaching. We are a mid-level, mediocre team. Granted that is a great step up from past years when we were in litigation, but it is also the limit to our success.

Barkley and Kenny Smith and company were making fun of us because we run so few plays on offense relative to other teams. That is just a complete void of coaching.

The only way we improve without getting rid of Woodson is to bring in a creative playmaker who can be successful in a "let's see what happens" offense.

[Rod700]

I just have to add this. I was watching the Hawks as they flirted with blowing a lead during the Heat series. The momentum had shifted in the Heat's favor. I said, "The Hawks should call a time out here, but Woodson won't. We will miss, and the other team will score yet again, and then Woodson will realize that 'oh crap' I should have called a timeout." That is exactly what happened. It's sad how predicable his screwups are getting.

[killbuckner]

For all the bitching about Woodson I would easily take him over many of the other available options. I'd much rather have him than Byron Scott, Avery, or Flip Saunders. I agree that Woodson isn't a great coach but there aren't a ton of guys that I consider to be clear upgrades over him. Here's a list of a bunch of current NBA coaches and I don't know that I would take any of them over woodson.

Tony DiLeo, Jay Triano, Vinny Del Negro, Mike Brown, Michael Curry, Jim Obrien, Doc Rivers, Scott Skiles, Erik Spoelstra, Ed Tapscott, Kevin McHale, Scott Brooks, Don Nelson, Alvin Gentry, Kenny Natt, Lionel Hollins, Byron Scott.

Maybe the Hawks would be better or maybe they would be worse but I couldn't at all say for sure that the Hawks woudl be better with any of these guys at the help. I think that woodson is an average coach. Its all well and good to replace him if you think there is a great coach available but there aren't many of those guys and I seriously doubt the ASG would spend what it takes to get one.

[parson]

I hated to do it, but I gave up on Woodson. To me, the mark of a good (not even talking about "great") coach is that his contribution(s) show in some way.

Tell me what Woodson has done for this team. All I see is the natural maturation of our youngsters .... and I'd be willing to credit Woodson for that if anyone could show me one skill Woodson has taught our guys.

I asked, earlier, for anyone who could show me one skill and I remain unconvinced. Validation for Woodson? No.

As for the next coach, well, we're not too young for a TEACHING coach (hint, hint, hint), even if we had to go the college route. Or maybe an offense-minded coach, to deal with Woodson's major weakness, namely no offensive scheme. I'd love to find a D'antoni disciple.

[JoshB914]

I hated to do it, but I gave up on Woodson. To me, the mark of a good (not even talking about "great") coach is that his contribution(s) show in some way.

Tell me what Woodson has done for this team. All I see is the natural maturation of our youngsters .... and I'd be willing to credit Woodson for that if anyone could show me one skill Woodson has taught our guys.

I asked, earlier, for anyone who could show me one skill and I remain unconvinced. Validation for Woodson? No.

As for the next coach, well, we're not too young for a TEACHING coach (hint, hint, hint), even if we had to go the college route. Or maybe an offense-minded coach, to deal with Woodson's major weakness, namely no offensive scheme. I'd love to find a D'antoni disciple.

13, 26, 30, 37, 47. Those are our win totals since Woody has been here. I understand why he still gets crap (stagnant offense, fights with players, odd substitution patterns etc.) , but I will never fully comprehend why you and others won't give the man one iota of credit for the steps this team has taken during his five seasons.

Surely he has done something? Did anyone just watch the Miami series where we consistently kept Wade out of the paint for 7 games? Woody's defensive gameplan was FANTASTIC and he gets no credit whatsoever, that was by far the best I have seen a team defend Wade. But the players get all the props when we do well, and Woody takes all the blame when things fall apart. That is just unfair and it really looks to me like people are just trying to save face after wanting Woody gone last offseason.

Like I was saying earlier, if he is that bad of a coach and we have made this kind of progress under him, then who cares who the coach is anyway?

[parson]

Josh, we "held" Wade ONE WHOLE POINT under his season average. Big whoop. You think that's "by far" the best you've seen a team defend him?

And, even if we credit Woodson with the defensive game plan, that only makes him worthy of being Larry Brown's assistant. Where's the offensive scheme? Where is the player development? Where are the in-game adjustments? How does he use time outs?

Tell me what Woodson has done with the 5 years we've given him.

[killbuckner]

The Hawks had a top 10 offense this season... I just don't get how people think they shoudl be higher. I can understand fans complaining about Byron Scott because a team with Chris Paul and David West had a worse offense than the Hawks. I can see Warrior fans bitching about Don Nelson because their team is built to have a great offense but they didn't have a better offense than the Hawks. The Hawks had a better offense than the Rockets, Nets, and Spurs. Its not like the sixers took worse personnel and outperformed the Hawks on offense- Woodson got results this year. I agree that Woodson isn't a great coach but he doesn't get ANY credit at all.

[JoshB914]

Josh, we "held" Wade ONE WHOLE POINT under his season average. Big whoop. You think that's "by far" the best you've seen a team defend him?

And, even if we credit Woodson with the defensive game plan, that only makes him worthy of being Larry Brown's assistant. Where's the offensive scheme? Where is the player development? Where are the in-game adjustments? How does he use time outs?

Tell me what Woodson has done with the 5 years we've given him.

Firstly on Wade... Come on now. You watched the series, too, and we all know that Wade's performance was far below his normal standards. He shot 5% below his season average and had two fewer APG. I'm assuming that is the most he has ever struggled in a playoff series. If Wade wants to drop 31 points on 10-25 shooting, 2-9 3 ptrs, and turn the ball over four times (as he did in game 7) then that is damn good defense. Looking only at PPG is very short sighted imo.

To answer your questions in the second paragraph: I credit Woody with his defensive gameplan, I credit him with his increasing openness to allowing us to get out in transition and run more, I credit him with the OBVIOUS development of Marvin/Smith and others. But most of all I credit him with the results this team has gotten, as I said in the previous post: 13, 26, 30, 37, 47.

I won't give him a ton of credit because I don't feel he's the best coach and I find coaching to be incredibly overrated in a players league such as the NBA. But for the life of me I don't see how someone can say that the head coach doesn't bear any responsibility for the success we've been having, ESPECIALLY considering these same people were calling for his head when we were losing. How can you blame the HC for the majority of the problems when things are going badly, and then turn around and act like he has nothing to do with it when things turn around?

[Rod700]

The Hawks had a top 10 offense this season...

What are we basing that on? They were 19th in PPG and in a 3 way tie for 11th on FG%. I like the FG% stat, but I think the Hawks have a tendency to play great one game and pad their stats (like at home), and play horrible and show no offense in the next game (like on the road in most cases).

Is that really an effective offense?

[killbuckner]

I use offensive efficiency. In 100 possessions how many points does the team score. PPG isn't that useful- the blazers played at a very slow pace but still had a great offense. In previous years the Pistons were the same way. The warriors are the opposite- they score a ton of points but it takes them a lot of posessions and the Hawks were actually the more effective offense. Here's the link

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... asonType=2