ImageImageImageImageImage

Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe...

Moderators: Kilroy, Danny Darko, TyCobb

User avatar
Jordan-esque
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,412
And1: 399
Joined: Feb 24, 2005

Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#1 » by Jordan-esque » Tue May 5, 2009 8:36 pm

ARTICLE
Short excerpt:
Battier was the defender on 25 of Kobe's 31 shooting possessions. Artest covered five (three of which coming when Battier was on the bench getting stitches or a rest), and the other possession came against Brent Barry on a secondary break. (By the way, Brent Barry held Kobe to 0-1 shooting! Brent Barry!)

In those 25 Kobe vs. Battier shooting possessions, two ended with trips to the line. Both of these came in the final two minutes, as Kobe decided to start attacking the basket. Bryant had only one prior FTA, on an "And-1" against Artest. For perspective, on the regular season Kobe drew 33% FTAs for every FGA. But in all those Battier-defended possessions in Game 1, Kobe drew just 4 FTAs on 25 FGAs -- 16% FTA per 1 FGA.

That's because the lion's share of Kobe's shots came on jumpers (26 of 31 shots). Of those 25 FGAs against Battier, 21 were jump shots. Of the 21 jumpers, 14 were long twos (the least efficient in basketball at the league-level). Obviously, you don't draw many fouls on jumpers, let alone pull-up jumpers (which Kobe often went to).

Given Kobe's aforementioned talent and focus, I find it hard to believe he simply didn't want to drive. Kobe's eye is on the prize. He knows what he needs to do to get L.A. another championship. Kobe knows he's at his best getting to the rim, especially against a long, agile, but not quick, Battier. Kobe knows all this ... and took 25 jump shots. I think Battier gets credit for this one.


On a positive side, this same article mentions that Kobe could've gotten 10+ assists if his teammates would've made their shots.

Reminds anyone of the Celtics defense in the Finals last year? Basically clogging up the paint and having Kobe and the Lakers be jump shooters? Whilst they drive to our basket (especially little Aaron Brooks against both our 7" footers) for easy layups, and get to the foul line to knock down freethrows.

Side note: Of the only 5 times Kobe drove to the paint, he got awarded 5 freethrow attempts - very good ratio.
User avatar
TonyMontana
RealGM
Posts: 11,726
And1: 398
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
Location: Loungin in the Cali sun.
     

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#2 » by TonyMontana » Tue May 5, 2009 9:01 pm

Shane aint ish. He's a good defender and thats about it.
To say that he was the reason for Kobes bad performance is a joke. Kobe needs to attack instead of settling for weak jump shots. We shot ourselves in the foot last night with all the outside shooting.
Less than 3 minutes left and we are down by 6 or 7, why settle for outside shot when you have 2 or 3 slashers that can get to the basket and draw contacts.

I dont blame last nights loss on anybody but the time we have taken off from the Utah series.
Wednesday is going to be a different game.
Image
slifersd
Analyst
Posts: 3,262
And1: 210
Joined: May 09, 2006

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#3 » by slifersd » Tue May 5, 2009 9:16 pm

Kobe thinks he is Larry Bird instead of Michael Jordan. I always hated when he tries for those long range jumpers with a hand in his face instead of putting his head down and drive hard to the hole. He is probably too good a shooter for his own good because it distracts him from utilizing his most effective and efficient weapon.
User avatar
crazyeights
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,923
And1: 2,231
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
 

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#4 » by crazyeights » Tue May 5, 2009 9:33 pm

Kobe needs to get 10+ FTs the rest of the series.

Honestly, ever since that game where Kobe set the record for free-throw attempts in a game, he started not getting calls and seemingly stopped driving to the basket. It's getting worse and worse.


This season Kobe's free-throws per game was the lowest it's been in a decade. Seriously.


It's not just him not getting the calls...he's simply not taking it to the hole. I just don't see how he forgets that he needs to keep defenders honest by driving to the paint. Or at least posting up sometimes.

For a smart player, Kobe's been playing into the opponents hand, turning into a high volume jump-shooter.

BBIQ Kobe. Come on.
TyCobb
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 38,252
And1: 9,956
Joined: Apr 17, 2005
Location: Pitcher's Mound
     

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#5 » by TyCobb » Tue May 5, 2009 9:57 pm

Yeah, Kobe cost us the game with all these jumpshots. If he would drive more than he shoots jumpshots, we'd be undefeated.
Read more, learn more, change your posts.
User avatar
snaquille oatmeal
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 16,815
And1: 4,819
Joined: Nov 15, 2005
Location: San Diego
   

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#6 » by snaquille oatmeal » Tue May 5, 2009 9:59 pm

if Battier is the "jump shooting force field" than what does that make 32 points? a Farmaresque performance?
Forum permissions
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot trade for basketball reasons in this forum
You cannot but I can...five rings!
User avatar
Sofa King
RealGM
Posts: 19,352
And1: 3,044
Joined: Jul 27, 2003
Contact:
 

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#7 » by Sofa King » Tue May 5, 2009 10:07 pm

It's a team effort. Kobe this and Kobe that, but where the hell was everyone else? I think they were all still taking a vacation.
User avatar
supaflash
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,670
And1: 131
Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Location: A Mile High
Contact:
   

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#8 » by supaflash » Tue May 5, 2009 10:10 pm

It was a combination of stuff. They packed the lane pretty hard and our ball movement and shooting did nothing to spread the floor. No one else was able to create anythign either except a few plays by Lamar.

Driving also take a lot more energy then shooting a jumper, something I'm not so sure Kobe had much lof last night.

He has to establish a jumpshooting rhythm to exploit defenders like the Rockets but I agree that after he established that he should have forced the issue a little more. Its not like Ming and Scola are crazy shot blockers either, Ming is just a big obstacle, he doesnt' really jump to get blocks that often.

Part of it is Phils fault though, Kobe with that type of energy should have gotten his rest at the beginning of the 4th. Farmar hit a nice shot, we had a little momentum, should have let them try and carry it for a couple minutes at least. Pau needed the rest too and Bynum had played decent.

Mistake by Phil imo.
User avatar
crazyeights
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,923
And1: 2,231
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
 

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#9 » by crazyeights » Tue May 5, 2009 10:47 pm

TyCobb wrote:Yeah, Kobe cost us the game with all these jumpshots. If he would drive more than he shoots jumpshots, we'd be undefeated.


If Kobe's going to shoots over 1/3 of all possessions then yeah it becomes a problem.
(31 out of 88 FGAs)

Also if you don't think free-throws are a big deal, okay...but what would it have done to put Yao in foul trouble? Or get into the Rockets into the penalty?

The Lakers had 12 more fouls and 10 less free-throw attempts. That's the game right there.
daddyfivestar
Banned User
Posts: 5,215
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Location: Get to 17 while they are still on 17

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#10 » by daddyfivestar » Tue May 5, 2009 11:04 pm

Kobe missed some shots he'd usually hit and Gasol definitely missed some he always hits (baby hooks, 12 footers). Get most of those and not miss so many open 3's and this is a Laker win.
Asianiac_24
General Manager
Posts: 8,499
And1: 3,995
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Contact:
   

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#11 » by Asianiac_24 » Tue May 5, 2009 11:22 pm

I think Kobe just does not have the explosiveness he has before to drive constantly to the basket. That's why he is settling. We should be posting up Kobe and let Kobe be our offensive engine IMO. It saves Kobe a lot of energy and he would score much more efficiently if hes in the post. Kobe has so many options in the post, double team than Kobe throws it out to a 3 point shooter or Odom/Gasol for the finish. 1 on 1 than Kobe will just score on him. Defenders sag off too much? Shoot the midrange. We would be so much more consistent offensively IMO
daddyfivestar
Banned User
Posts: 5,215
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Location: Get to 17 while they are still on 17

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#12 » by daddyfivestar » Tue May 5, 2009 11:31 pm

Asianiac_24 wrote:I think Kobe just does not have the explosiveness he has before to drive constantly to the basket. That's why he is settling. We should be posting up Kobe and let Kobe be our offensive engine IMO. It saves Kobe a lot of energy and he would score much more efficiently if hes in the post. Kobe has so many options in the post, double team than Kobe throws it out to a 3 point shooter or Odom/Gasol for the finish. 1 on 1 than Kobe will just score on him. Defenders sag off too much? Shoot the midrange. We would be so much more consistent offensively IMO


That's where a 3-pt shooting Center would be great.

Image
User avatar
snaquille oatmeal
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 16,815
And1: 4,819
Joined: Nov 15, 2005
Location: San Diego
   

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#13 » by snaquille oatmeal » Wed May 6, 2009 12:23 am

Asianiac_24 wrote:I think Kobe just does not have the explosiveness he has before to drive constantly to the basket. That's why he is settling. We should be posting up Kobe and let Kobe be our offensive engine IMO. It saves Kobe a lot of energy and he would score much more efficiently if hes in the post. Kobe has so many options in the post, double team than Kobe throws it out to a 3 point shooter or Odom/Gasol for the finish. 1 on 1 than Kobe will just score on him. Defenders sag off too much? Shoot the midrange. We would be so much more consistent offensively IMO

correct me if i am wrong, but I don't remember Kobe ever driving constantly to the basket. I think that was MJ who did that. Kobe has always been more of a jump shooter than a drive to the basket guy. that is not to say that he never drove to the basket, just that he never did on a consistant basis.
Forum permissions
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot trade for basketball reasons in this forum
You cannot but I can...five rings!
magic1fan
Starter
Posts: 2,374
And1: 0
Joined: Oct 02, 2006
Location: The showitme era...

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#14 » by magic1fan » Wed May 6, 2009 1:37 am

trying to blame this loss on kobe is crazy. the lane was packed and if kobe would have kept driving he would have fouled out because of offensive fouls. you take what the defense gives you. houston is considered a good defensive team,so they are allowed to get away with a little more pushing and grabbing. i also agree with snaquille oatmeal kobe has never been a relentless drive to the hoop guy. he has always had a great combination of skills,and that's what makes him probably the best offensive player the game has ever seen.
Only on realgm is 27,000 points, 5 rings, 1 rs mvp and 2 finals mvp considered overrated!
User avatar
milesfides
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 16,012
And1: 1,449
Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#15 » by milesfides » Wed May 6, 2009 4:49 am

First of all, Kobe didn't have a terrible shooting game. He ended up 45% overall - which is hardly awful. He was hot for a stretch in the 2nd half, but overall, no he wasn't hot from the perimeter, but it evens out - that's why shooting guards shoot somewhere around the mid 40s.

It's part of the game. NOT EVERY player can shoot within five feet. NOT EVERY shot can be a dunk or a layup. Big guys get most of their shots inside. Perimeter guys shoot mostly from outside. Because of this, bigs will almost always shoot close to 50 percent, perimeter guys closer to 45. It's basketball.

Look, it's just not as simple as Kobe deciding to drive more. There's a seven-six Chinese giant in the middle clogging the paint. Every time Kobe gets past Battier or Artest, there's Yao blocking the lane. You can't even pass around the guy. That's why Houston is a good defensive team. The only thing you can do, short of forcing up a shot or getting stuffed, is to kick the ball outside for an open shot. The only problem was, guys weren't hitting their open shots.

Trevor Ariza was 4-8, and he missed all four of his open threes. What's the answer? He should keep driving? Well that's not possible, because in the game called basketball, NOT EVERY basket can be a layup. When they're packing it in and he's open, he's got to take that shot. He just missed.

Fisher missed all four of his threes too. Kobe was a cold 1-7, yes. But one thing you guys aren't pointing out is the fact that aside from him, our team was 1-11. The sad part was that most of those were open.

You guys are questioning why Kobe, our premier perimeter player, shot so many jumpers, yet nobody's questioning all the jumpers Odom, Gasol, hell Bynum took?

Those guys are our frontcourt players taking perimeter shots.

Bottom line, Houston is defending Kobe and the Lakers exactly how Boston did last year in the Finals. Yao instead of KG is protecting the basket, and the Rockets are denying penetration. That's why Kobe is taking perimeter shots (because the lanes are closed), and that's why his teammates are getting perimter shots (because Kobe is kicking it out to them and the Rockets will live with that).

The problem is, guys need to knock down open shots to penalize Houston's defense (and Boston's last year). And once again, guys are choking: 1-11 at home?

Two things need to happen. First, perimeter guys need to give us something on the outside. They can't be that cold, shooting open shots at home. Second, Bynum and Gasol (and Odom) have to take it to Yao instead of relying on 20-footers. They're our post players for goodness' sakes.

Why did I leave Kobe out? Because he's one guy who had the least unusual game. I do believe Kobe will shoot better because he's got that capability to just beat you at your own game. But if we want to win a championship, we've got to stop living and dying on everything Kobe does.

Role players must execute their roles on both ends. You guys are freaking out about a few Kobe missed jumpers (and some were bail out shots), yet you guys are ignoring the huge glaring problems. How in the world is Fisher going to guard Aaron Brooks? Why is Bynum playing a style of game I've never seen him play? How did Odom miss 5 out of 6 free throws? There are many more distressing signs than Kobe missing a few jumpers.

Really, that's the least of our problems.
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
User avatar
crazyeights
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 8,923
And1: 2,231
Joined: Dec 27, 2005
 

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#16 » by crazyeights » Wed May 6, 2009 5:28 am

Oh yeah the plethora of jumpers Bynum was taking. You mean the wide open 10 footers? Who passed up a 10-footer in the NBA and isn't named Rondo?
User avatar
KObe Bryant
Analyst
Posts: 3,686
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Earth

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#17 » by KObe Bryant » Wed May 6, 2009 6:20 am

I'm sure everybody would learn from this. And if he drives more to the basket, better chances of drawing the foul and getting Scola and Yao into foul trouble.
User avatar
milesfides
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 16,012
And1: 1,449
Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#18 » by milesfides » Wed May 6, 2009 7:07 am

crazyeights wrote:Oh yeah the plethora of jumpers Bynum was taking. You mean the wide open 10 footers? Who passed up a 10-footer in the NBA and isn't named Rondo?


Rondo's a guard. Bynum is a low post player who hasn't shown a consistent jump shot. Dwight Howard shouldn't take 10-footers if they're open. That's not his game - until he proves otherwise. Greg Oden shouldn't either. Shaq doesn't take jumpers either, he moves toward the basket with jump hooks.

His job is to get position on Yao and bust some of the moves that we've invested so much time and money into. I'm pretty sure Kareem didn't teach Bynum to pull up for those jumpers.

The reality is that Bynum didn't take his game into Yao. Period. And Bynum has gone right at Shaq before, so I'm guessing he's still not recovered from his injury. If that's the case, the Lakers should probably try to shift into a more uptempo game, which would challenge Yao in a different way.

When your big man isn't fighting down there but he's floating on the perimeter, that's trouble. It's not the number of jump shots Bynum took, it's the fact that he did take those jump shots that aren't part of his game, and it's the fact that it's representative of his tentative play the entire night.

On the other hand, Pau didn't play well either, but again, I'm not mad that he missed those shots. Those are shots he can make. He can take those. I didn't expect him to play physical - and he didn't. That's no surprise there. I hope he plays a little more aggressively, because Pau can be effective in the post...but we haven't seen that happen too often with Bynum.

The people who brought up the Pau-Bynum issue have a point. They didn't play well together at all. In questioning who should post up, Pau or Bynum, what happened was that neither did. They both decided to play mostly a perimeter game, which is why Yao pretty much dominated both ends of the floor. He had his way with Bynum and Pau, and that's a little disappointing, because that's more than just shooting poorly, it's the way they played. They just weren't aggressive.
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
Snip
Sophomore
Posts: 109
And1: 0
Joined: Apr 21, 2009

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#19 » by Snip » Wed May 6, 2009 3:43 pm

milesfides wrote:You guys are questioning why Kobe, our premier perimeter player, shot so many jumpers, yet nobody's questioning all the jumpers Odom, Gasol, hell Bynum took?

Those guys are our frontcourt players taking perimeter shots.

Bottom line, Houston is defending Kobe and the Lakers exactly how Boston did last year in the Finals. Yao instead of KG is protecting the basket, and the Rockets are denying penetration. That's why Kobe is taking perimeter shots (because the lanes are closed), and that's why his teammates are getting perimter shots (because Kobe is kicking it out to them and the Rockets will live with that).


Im not a Laker fan, but I agree with this guy. No one was making their open shots, and you really cant blame the refs for anything this game. If anything, I felt the Lakers should of been called for more things, I mean Battier was kneed in the head by Kobe (on purpose, should be fined or suspened in my opinion) and Sasha was able to create stitches for him. None of those were called.

Your role players need to plain out make open shots, and you wont have to worry about yao, artest, and brooks.
User avatar
Tommy Trojan
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,447
And1: 36
Joined: Aug 19, 2006
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Battier: "Jump Shooting Force Field" on Kobe... 

Post#20 » by Tommy Trojan » Wed May 6, 2009 4:19 pm

TyCobb wrote:Yeah, Kobe cost us the game with all these jumpshots. If he would drive more than he shoots jumpshots, we'd be undefeated.


I also want to see Kobe take the ball to the hole also. Not just settle for long jumpers.

Return to Los Angeles Lakers