Evaluate the Mayo - Love trade

[cpfsf]

Seasons over, just tell me if you would have done the trade again. I wanted to add more choices on the poll, but I didn’t want a huge list. I still think Love would have been a great fit in Memphis (not that Mayo isn’t). Mayo is a great talent, but Jaric and Buckner don’t help. It’s like having two 500 lb guys on a plane; they both take three seats and they weigh the plane down.

[john2jer]

Now as to why the search for life on Mars is pointless...

[TMo519]

LOL the possibilities of non-basketball related discussion in this thread are endless.

I said both teams improved. It remains to be seen which team really benefited most, however.

[Krapinsky]

How do you guys feel about gay marriage?

[mnWI]

How do you guys feel about gay marriage?

Still prefer Gordon or Westbrook over Mayo personally. Love's a nice player. Meh.

[AQuintus]

I want to pick two options.

The trade definitely improved both teams. At the same time, however, it was a bad trade for bothe teams because both teams would have been better off keeping the guy that they drafted.

Edit: I still think that not drafting Jordan in the 2nd was a worse move then trading Mayo.

[shrink]

MEM bet a lot that Mayo was going to be a superstar. While that chance still exists, I don't think that it is as great as it was before we saw his first season. His numbers were inflated by being in the Top Ten in the NBA in minutes, and by his role, but after a hot start, he has been a volume scorer that makes a lot of mistakes. Worse, while MEM needed a star SG, they did it at the expense of Love, who would have filled their other giant hole -- PF. They also lost Mike Miller, who was productive for them in Memphis, and moved salary from 2009 to 2010, which, if they use the cap space in 2010, I'd say that's a loss. I think they made the wrong move. Love + Mike Miller would have been better this year, and arguably for their future.

For MIN, I think they won the trade. Love was better than anyone expected, which can't be said of Mayo. Kevin Love had historic numbers as a rebounder, and the biggest question about him, whether his athleticism would allow him to compete in the NBA, has been eliminated. Have OJ's? Mike Miller may have been a disappointing scorer for MIN, but he did several things well, and he is a valuable trade chip for 2010. Removing Jaric's final $7.5 mil year, and aligning our expirings in the crucial 2010 season as well.

Right now, I don't think you can say that Mayo was any better than Love, and I think a case could be made that he was worse. He may get better, and he may not, and people can always choose "ask me later," as they could for any trade. However, right now, I would much rather be in the side that has Mike Miller and more 2010 cap space, than the one who has an expiring a year earlier, but is paying Jaric $7.5 mil in 2010-11.

[cpfsf]

I wanted to add a few more options like Minnesota improved & Memphis unchanged and vice versa, but I didn't want to add a huge list. But, I think this hurt Memphis because they could have had arguably the best power forward in the 2008 draft. Now it's unlikely they can upgrade the power forward position (unless they get really lucky).

[shrink]

Let me add one more thing.

Did MEM improve? They got Mayo, and if they didn't have a late season run, they would have been behind us .. with Al out for almost half the season.

People have different yardsticks by which they rate trades. Win now, win later, fix finances, move bad attitudes, etc etc. However, to me by almost any standard, MIN did better in that trade than Memphis did.

I'll leave it up to OJ Mayo to explode in the next few years to prove me wrong, but Love's going to improve as well.

[deeney0]

I think DJ Augustin is in an excellent position to have a Deron Williams-like sophomore season and enter not only enter the Westbrook/Gordon/Mayo conversation, but surpass them all.

[mandurugo]

I think the results of the coaches voting tells us that we can argue the Mayo is better than Love. He is also better than any of the wolves guards, a position of need for them. I remain convinced that a front-court of Jefferson and Love is a defensive disaster, so even though Love wasn't as bad as I feared, at best he doesn't give the wolves a high ceiling. Since Memphis got the best player in the trade I would say that the early returns suggest that Memphis won and the wolves lost.

[Jonathan Watters]

Given the number of elite caliber guards the Wolves passed on, the lack of elite caliber guards in the upcoming draft and Minnesota's desperate need for an elite caliber guard...I don't see how Minnesota won anything.

I think Love and Mayo are exactly who I thought they'd be. Mayo isn't god's gift to basketball, like I said last year at this time, and Love is an effective yet flawed player who doesn't really fit into Minnesota's plan of building around Big Al.

[Krapinsky]

Given the number of elite caliber guards the Wolves passed on, the lack of elite caliber guards in the upcoming draft and Minnesota's desperate need for an elite caliber guard...I don't see how Minnesota won anything.

I think Love and Mayo are exactly who I thought they'd be. Mayo isn't god's gift to basketball, like I said last year at this time, and Love is an effective yet flawed player who doesn't really fit into Minnesota's plan of building around Big Al.

If it was possible for Derozan to dunk on this post he would.

[hard49]

Is this where Minny fans tell us again how Love plays winning ball and Mayo doesn't but somehow Minny and Memphis have the same record.

All I know is that you have not seen a Kevin Love thread on a Grizzlies board since Decemberish, yet there is a Mayo thread here every two weeks.

[Krapinsky]

Is this where Minny fans tell us again how Love plays winning ball and Mayo doesn't but somehow Minny and Memphis have the same record.

All I know is that you have not seen a Kevin Love thread on a Grizzlies board since Decemberish, yet there is a Mayo thread here every two weeks.

Umm.. that's because there's less Grizzlies posters than any other team.

[john2jer]

Memphis got the flashier player. Wolves got the player that does the little things to help produce wins. Mayo will be on SportsCenter a heck of a lot more than Love, but all things being equal, I can see Love having more team success. Now this is just my opinion at this point in their 1 year careers, but as far as I know, Memphis was rather healthy all year, yet finished with the same record as Minnesota who was completely banged up all year, and it got worse as the season went on. If both teams were completely healthy, Minnesota would possibly be praying for a lucky lottery bounce just to keep their pick, not just hoping for a good player. Just the change in records from last year to this year shows more of an improvement by the Wolves, and when you factor in injuries, it's even more evident. And really, the only stats that mean anything are wins and losses.

I think it was Bill Parcels who said "You are what your record says you are." So we can assume Memphis and Minnesota were the same this year. But Minnesota did it with Brewer out 80% of the year, Jefferson out 40% of the year, and with Foye/Miller missing a few games as well.

Now Memphis has close to max cap room available this off-season, and Darko's expiring to work with.
Wolves have very little cap room this off-season, but a ton in 2010, and Miller, Cardinal, Smith, and Madsen as expirings.

Assuming neither wins big in the lottery:
I think we'll see Memphis take a nice jump next year, especially if they can sign a big free agent this year. Boozer? And I can see many people bagging on the Wolves for the trade all next year, but we'll see Minnesota make a huge jump in 2010-11.

So really at the end of the day, I think both teams won. At least for now, a lot will be decided on this draft, and the next two off-seasons and how each team handles their cap space, picks, and expiring contracts.

I think it's with this all in mind that I get more and more excited about Tyreke Evans if we don't move up in the draft. I just see a very similar game to Dwayne Wade, but with more size. Now I don't think Evans has the freakish reach/wingspan that Wade has, but his added height probably makes up for it. Could Evans/Jefferson be a Wade/Shaq type combination? Obviously not at their talent level just yet, if ever, but the comparison is there for their style of play. And I love "glue guys" like Miller and Kevlar surrounding them, and Randy Foye filling the point guard "role" next to Evans. Add in a solid center prospect like Mullens and perimeter defenders, preferably veteran types with high IQ and a winning background, and Minnesota has a very bright future. The good part about it is we're young, we don't need to make some outlandish signing to get it done, and it's plausible.

[john2jer]

Is this where Minny fans tell us again how Love plays winning ball and Mayo doesn't but somehow Minny and Memphis have the same record.

All I know is that you have not seen a Kevin Love thread on a Grizzlies board since Decemberish, yet there is a Mayo thread here every two weeks.

I think you have to consider the fact that none of Memphis's starters missed much time this year. Mayo played 82, Conley played 82, Gay played 79...

Then look at how much time Jefferson, Foye, Miller, and Brewer missed.

Now take that into consideration when looking at their similar records. Basically we're both dating fat chicks, but at least ours can cook.

[Vindicater]

Still need another year before this shakes out well.

What happens if Millers ending contract is able to get us a good point guard and help balance out our roster? Then we look great

[shrink]

Given the number of elite caliber guards the Wolves passed on, the lack of elite caliber guards in the upcoming draft and Minnesota's desperate need for an elite caliber guard...I don't see how Minnesota won anything.

I don't know exactly how you define "elite" if there were a number of them in last year's draft, but there are a number of them available in the NBA. You want to go get Micheal Redd right now, you could do it for Cardinal, Madsen and filler.

One of the ways I compare players is "what makes you special?" What puts you in the say, top 5% of the league?

Here's Love:

Ranks #9 in the NBA in Rebounds Per Game(9.1)
Ranks #3 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds(274.0)
Ranks #2 in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds Per Game(3.4)
Ranks #9 in the NBA in Total Rebounds(734.0)

Ranks #14 in the NBA in Double-doubles(29.0)

And as you can imagine, he looks far better in his per-minute numbers. Love is already an elite rebounder.

Here's Mayo:

Ranks #3 in the NBA in Minutes Played(3120.0) ... is that good?

Ranks #12 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts(1283.0)
Ranks #21 in the NBA in Field Goals Made(562.0) .... are these two together good or bad?

Ranks #12 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage(0.879) .. good but not in top 50 in FTA, despite minutes.

Ranks #12 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(226.0) .. obviously not good.

So is OJ Mayo a good player, helping a team win? Or is he elite at hurting his team?

[southern wolf]

I'm still on the fence. Once Love's minutes start to increase and both players settle into their roles in the next couple of seasons I'll decide.

Rookie seasons aren't always the best indicator. KG only averaged 10 points, 6 rebounds in his first season.