If you were Pacer's GM, what moves would you make?

[chatard5]

I want to see some reasonable moves you would try and make. Obviously we can't get Lebron, but maybe a guy like Tyson Chandler or someone, I don't know.

Edit: Mine is long. Everyone knows I like to type. You obviously don't have to make it long, just try and make it pretty reasonable, how it'd make the Pacers better, why the other team would do it (if it's a trade), and why the player would sign with us. Or maybe you want our current roster! Let us know why.

I guess you could just say who you are willing to trade and what you want back, but don't know who in particular and who want those players. For example, I am willing to trade TJ and the #13 w/o much of a problem. I like TJ, but I don't know, I think we can get a better fit or good value.

I guess if you want to, you can assume we get the 1, 2, or 3 pick. It is very doubtful, but it couuuuld happen. Try and stay away from it, but I guess it'd be fun to see all the possibilities.

[chatard5]

Alright, here is mine. I posted this in the Playoff thread, but it doesn't really belong there, so I decided to make this thread.

First move: Trade TJ, Foster, and #13 for Thomas and Hinrich. This saves Chicago some money and gives them some vet leadership in Foster. The Bulls just signed Deng to a long contract. They will have to give Rose a huge contract in a couple of years. They also have Noah. They can't afford to keep all of these guys. I think it is POSSIBLE that the Bulls do this trade. Hinrich shoots 41% from 3 (fits us perfectly) and Thomas is an athletic big man, just what we need!

Next: Re-sign Jack and sign Artest. I don't know what the prices are, and it may not be possible. I am just going to ignore the Jack part, but as for Artest... I kinda want him back. Sign him for a year (if nobody wants to sign him b/c of the economy and 2010) or possibly 2. Have him teach Rush and keep his sanity. This could only happen if other teams don't show interest in him, which I doubt, or if he feels like he owes us something (which he does), but I also doubt. The front office wouldn't do it though. They lost a bunch of season ticket holders again. We are coming back, and we don't want to lose anymore. If we want to win games and make it to the playoffs we would do it.

Oh yeah, and I hated Artest, but watching him it looks like he can control himself more and he really is a great player. Make it happen, I don't care if Artest ruined us for a few years, now he can save us! I only want him for a couple years, though, and then Rush is the full-time SG. If Artest wants more years I guess we could do that and trade him after 2 years.

Line-up:
Hinrich/Jack
Artest/Rush/Dunleavy
Granger/Dunleavy
Thomas/McBob
Murphy/Hibbert

Jack could start over Hinrich, don't really know. I'd have Hinrich start at first, personally.

That is definitely a playoff team. We lost 12 games by 3 points or less, plus a few other games in OT by more than 3. We would have won many/most of these games if we had Artest, and that's not even talking about Hinrich and Thomas.

Rush can come off the bench behind Artest and Granger for plenty of minutes. If Dunleavy comes back then maybe we can trade him, or we may have to make a small line-up. Either way we'd find him some minutes.

Thomas is the athletic big man we need. He can block shots. Murphy is a big man who can hit 3s, and Hibbert would be great off the bench.

This is a team that could make it to the 2nd round, and maybe even upset another team in the 2nd round! Artest is great defensively, and Granger would be like Battier defensively, plus he is great offensively. We would be soooo much better defensively, and I really like our offense as well. We could play a bunch of different styles. I give this about a .001%chance of happening, but this would be what I would try and do.

[writerman]

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who just blythely want to move Foster. In case you haven't noticed (evidently you haven't) though his numbers may not impress, it's a proven fact that good things happen for the Pacers when Foster is on the floor.

#1 - I don't like Hinrich, never have. Always thought he was seriously overrated, and haven't seen anything to change my mind.

#2 - I don't care how much everyone claims he's "matured" I don't want to ever see Artest in a Pacer's uniform again. We just spent a couple of years painfully cleaning out the trash, and we don't need to start putting any back on the roster.

IOW, I think this is a VERY bad idea.

[greenway84]

i agree. i like both players as far as talent goes. but both are head cases. I think we should go after chandler with ford and extras. assuming hes being shopped. i also think we should draft a pg.

[chatard5]

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people who just blythely want to move Foster. In case you haven't noticed (evidently you haven't) though his numbers may not impress, it's a proven fact that good things happen for the Pacers when Foster is on the floor.

#1 - I don't like Hinrich, never have. Always thought he was seriously overrated, and haven't seen anything to change my mind.

#2 - I don't care how much everyone claims he's "matured" I don't want to ever see Artest in a Pacer's uniform again. We just spent a couple of years painfully cleaning out the trash, and we don't need to start putting any back on the roster.

IOW, I think this is a VERY bad idea.

Hmmm clearly you don't read posts on the Pacers' board too often, because I praise Foster more than anyone on this board. He is a good player, but he is getting older. We are getting younger players in return. There isn't any other player that I saw that could replace Foster to go to Chicago. I don't want to move Foster, but I will in this deal, because we get better value.

To address your #1. I think you are wrong. I think he is good and would be an upgrade at PG, or an upgrade over Ford. That would mean #13 (not a very good draft, don't miss #13) and Foster for Tyrus Thomas. Tyrus Thomas is 22. He has great upside. He can play defense and gets 2 blocks per game in 27 minutes.

#2. I can see some people saying this, I think I even posted that. The thing is, he is actually really good. He is a great player and would improve our team, and most likely in the long-run improve Rush.

In case you haven't noticed, we haven't been making the playoffs. The whole point of me making this thread is it improve our team to make the playoffs. Foster is one of my favorite players. If he is the difference between the playoffs and not the playoffs, I choose the playoffs.

"it's a proven fact that good things happen for the Pacers when Foster is on the floor"-that is just a stupid thing to say. He may play well, and the Pacers play a little bit better. It's a proven fact? I am going to assume you go by the +/- stat, which doesn't actually prove it, rather the Pacers outscore the other team while Foster is on the court, which in most cases is against bench players. If Foster was as good as you make him out to be we would be in the playoffs. And again, I like Foster. I have ALWAYS said how he doesn't get enough credit and does all the small things. That's fine if you disagree with me, but don't say that I don't know about Foster and I want to get rid of him. I want to get rid of him to improve our team, and I don't know any other instance where I had us trading Foster. If you think differently that is dumb. And don't say things that can't be proven can be proven (unless by what you mean saying good things is you get really excited to Foster out there, it doesn't make sense).

[chatard5]

i agree. i like both players as far as talent goes. but both are head cases. I think we should go after chandler with ford and extras. assuming hes being shopped. i also think we should draft a pg.

By head cases do you mean Artest and Thomas, or Thomas and Hinrich? I assume Artest, because I don't see how Hinrich can be a headcase. I wouldn't call Thomas a headcase. He shows some emotion. So does Lebron, is he a headcase? He did miss practice once, but I wouldn't call him a headcase for that (apparently there was a good reason for it). Anyway, I just am not sold on the draft. We trade Ford and extras for Chandler. So we improve our Center spot, but then we are left with just Jack and draft an Eric Maynor or someone. I pick Hinrich over any PG left at #13 and I would also take the 22 year-old Thomas over Chandler who is making $8 million more. I like Chandler and like him as a back-up plan, but Thomas is verrrrrrry athletic, better defensively, and gets a lot of blocks. Thomas can also hit FTs (almost 80%), while Chandler is below 60%. I will say that Chandler has a higher FG%, but A LOT of that is thanks to all of the oops from CP3. Over half of Chandler's FGs were dunks (87 of 160) while Thomas had 1/3 of his FGs being dunks (102 out of 308).

[chatard5]

Oh yeah, Thomas also gets steals, too. He was 9th in the league in blocks per game, and 3rd per 48 mins. Thomas is also 33rd in steals per game in the league, 16th per 48 mins (each of these were minimum of 24 mins per game). I highly doubt there are many players in the top 50 in each category, especially top 35 in steals and top 10 in blocks. I think this guy is athletic as hell and can do a lot to chance the game with his defense.

[cdash]

Two quick thoughts before I post something big:

1. Sorry chatard, I like you, and you are one of my favorite posters on this board, but....you have to be **** insane if you think bringing Ron Artest back to Indiana would be a wise move in any capacity whatsoever. Our front office has worked damn hard to bring the fans back to the Fieldhouse, and I'll tell you right now, signing Artest would undo just about everything.

2. I don't like the TJ+Foster+13th for Thomas+Hinrich deal. I actually do like both of those guys, but I just can't see that deal formulating. The Bulls don't need a point guard, they already have a very rich man's Foster in Joakim Noah, and the 13th pick isn't that great of incentive to get rid of two guys who have value.

[chatard5]

OK, I understand people not wanting Artest back. I completely agreed until a few weeks ago. This won't happen, but hypothetically he would be a perfect fit on our team and help us out a TON. This is if I am GM. People can write hate letters to me, I will just have to get a bodyguard. Once we make the playoffs and Artest doesn't go insane maybe they would understand the move. I don't blame people for that part, but I think you must agree Artest would give us many more wins as long as he keeps his cool.

#2... I can't believe people don't like this deal. I can see Chicago not liking it, but we are getting a STEAL, in my opinion. You say the Bulls don't need a PG, which is true... That is why they are shaving off a year off of Hinrich. Foster and Noah wouldn't be good playing together, but if Foster came off the bench he could be very productive for the Bulls. Do you not like the deal b/c the Bulls won't do it, or b/c you don't like the return?

Man, I am clearly getting burned (Artest part, again, I understand. I have changed my mind. Let's say he is worth 3 points per game. We lost 12 points by 3 points or less. Plus even more games in OT by more than 3 (hypothetically we would've won these). Saying we win 12 of those is a lot, especially b/c he would have an off game now and again, but defense doesn't really have hot and cold streaks like offense. That would put us at the #4 seed!!!). I think the trade we make is fantastic. The #13 I don't care about. I don't think the player will be any good and won't make it in the NBA. I hope I am wrong and this is a sig in a few years, but that's what I think. I also believe Hinrich is an improvement over TJ, especially in our offense. He shoots 41% from 3s.

Keep it comin'! I also want to hear what other people would do. I don't care if you think I am insane, that's fine. I am Pacer's GM and I want to make the playoffs. Fans will buy tickets when we are winning nearly 50 games and in the playoffs.

[cdash]

The thing about Artest, which you basically admitted in another thread, is that it's not realistic. You said at the beginning of your post to throw out some realistic ideas. Artest does not qualify. You know Bird and Morway would never bring him back.

[chatard5]

If I was GM it'd be realistic. I don't think Bird would do it. I do however think he MIGHT do it, but not before making thousands of phone calls to season-ticket holders and former season-ticket holders. I should've said it isn't likely, not unrealistic (I don't remember what I said). I do think it would be possible, but you've gotta make phone calls to the people buying tickets, and to the people we were buying tickets until we stopped winning/had thugs (did they leave b/c we weren't winning or b/c we had Artest and Tinsley? Does Artest really make a difference if Tinsley is still on the books?) Also, like I have said multiple times, this is a new thing for me wanting Artest. However, even 3 months ago when I didn't want Artest at all, I would have had him playing for the Pacers over Tinsley playing for the Pacers.

[cdash]

I said this before in the Artest discussions, but I'll say it again: If he was the missing piece between us being a title contender, I think the fan base would be more understanding. Since he is only the difference between us missing the playoffs and us sneaking in as a 6-8 seed, well, what's the point?

[chatard5]

I think this team would be a 4 seed and much like the Rockets team this year. A team that is a VERY dangerous team because of their defense. We win the first round and play the Cavs in the 2nd round. Maybe Granger and Artest can contain the Cavs and we pull off the upset? The Rockets have other better players than the Pacers do in my case, but I don't see it being impossible. Also, he would only be here in a couple years and could make Rush from being a good player to a great player, which may win us a championship in the long run. I completely hear the argument against it and expect most people to agree with you. I guess I just miss the playoffs too much and am not thinking straight since I have been an insomniac lately and have been taking cough meds for a bad cough. That's at least my excuse if I fall asleep and wake up in a day and think what I posted is completely idiotic, and I am sticking to it!

[DannyGranger]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... eId=d528nc

Pacers Send:
Murphy
Dunleavy
Hibbert
Foster
2010 first rounder
2012 first rounder

Pacers Receive:
Bosh
Battie
Foyle
JJ Redick

Magic Receive:
Murphy

Toronto Receives:
Hibbert
Foster
2010 First rounder
2012 first rounder
Dunleavy


Pacers Left With:
Ford/Jack/Diener
Rush/Redick
Granger/Graham
Bosh/McRoberts
Battie/Foyle

[cdash]

^No. First, too many moving parts. Second, no way we can deal Dunleavy while he is slated to be out for at least half of next season. No team would take him. Third, sending away two first round picks to basically get Bosh and fillers isn't worth it. He would likely bolt after next season, and we would be out two first round picks.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

To start, I'm definitely on board to bring Artest back, but that will never happen - but since this is just what we would do if GM, then I'm on board. Artest has said he'd like to be back here, and he would be a great mentor to Rush, and would probably even help Granger out some more.

I'm also on board for your Bulls trade, but the Bulls have no reason to do it.

The Bosh trade I would not do, for one, he could just bounce in a year, then we traded all those pieces for nothing, and secondly, if we had Bosh, I'd want Hibbert next to him. Even if we signed Bosh to an extension I'd probably say no - at first I woulda said yes, but we really gut our team to make the trade. A Granger/Bosh combo would be nice, but I'm not sold on that team, especially with no bench. Take out Hibbert and I'm on board, if the Raptors wouldn't do that(and for good reason) so be it.

[Donerik]

It’s easy to become obsessed with the big move. The team changer that brings in more points and more rebounds and blah.. in my humble opinion scoring more should not be the focus of our team.

When we first hired Obbie there was a pacers.com article that featured this quote, “He sat down with a bunch of us at our table and asked us what we thought was most important for him to be successful,” Fennig said. “We all just kind of sat there, scratching our heads, not sure what to say. He responded with one word: love. He said that it will be about getting the guys to respect each other and care about each other and work together. Those are the critical elements.” by Greg Fenning. I think we have a solid quality core of guys we shouldn't have a fire sale just to bring in big name players. Sometimes like Tmac they make a team worse. Our players like each other and care about winning so lets just tinker with the team.

The Staff cleaned house, removed all of the cancers, and left us with a very watchable team. We were on the brink this year, if you'll remember of being a playoff team. Lost a league leading number of games decided by less than 3 points. Mostly without Mike Dunleavy or Quisey. So I think little tinkering could make us a dangerous playoff team.

These are the key assumptions I am making:
Hibbert and Rush develop into legit nba starters putting up no better or worse number than their peers. Hibbert will score 12-15 ppg pull 7-10 boards, get a 1.5 blocks, and bring his fouling average down to somewhere between regular and fouled out of each game. Rush will be a bit better but I don't want to guess at a stat line.

There is no reason to believe Mike Dunleavy doesn't come back. When he comes back a decision will have to be made, who can come off the bench and be productive.

My moves:
We have quality players when healthy, but some players are never healthy, Like Jonathan Bender and JO before him Quisey can't stay healthy. We have to move Quisey or let him walk. So until Mike Dunleavy can make it back we should let Graham play. If Graham is deemed unsuitable by Obbie or they want a change, an undrafted 3 that plays D and hits only the most wide open shots would still be preffered over signing a mid level guy then going through this who plays how many minutes BS again.

We are all set at PG unless one of four things happens, an unbelievable draft blunder on the part of the teams ahead of us drops a player in our lap we can't ignore(see Darko Milicic landing Chris Bosh in Toronto.) A magnificent offer comes in from a team like Portland unsatisfied with their starting PG. TD ops out leaving us with 2 PG, or Jack rolls out of town.

The Pacers want Jack, Jack likes the team/system/personnel/city. To me resigning him unless someone decides to burn cash on him seems like a no brainer. Resign McBob and Graham to 1 year low money deals.

The Blazers could upgrade Steve Blake, for the price of some bench players. A move that would clear space for their big free agent year. I'm interested to see how they resign all of the talent they have going off the books in 2 years(2010-11) I'd like to see what we could make happen there.

We need bigs, we should draft bigs, and sign bigs. Portland could have channing frye for 4.25m(qualifying offer) so if we offer 4.5 he can sign with us. Personally I think this could be a sign and trade target, say TJ for Frye & Blake(or Rodruigez + parts) It helps them, move money, it helps us move forward.

Drafting a Big for me as a GM at 13 there look to be 3 options available, Blair, Clark, and Johnson. I’m most interested in Johnson I like his face up game, and although his ppg didn’t go up much as a sophomore his efficiency did so I draft him. I look to fill my need at swing man grabbing the talented Emir Preldzic from Europe. He seems like a talent and he could come in and immediately compete for 5-10 minuttes a game. If he doesn’t work out it’s a second round pick.

So Right now my team looks like

Jack/Blake/Deiner
Rush/Graham/Dunleavy (listed here because injured)
Granger/Preldzic
Murphy/Johnson/McRoberts
Hibbert/Foster/Frye

W/Tinsley riding the pine.

If I were the GM.

[MillerTime101]

Wow, some of you guys are going all out. Do you guys really want to trade half our team, our rookie center and all our picks for a guy thats expiring after next year? Getting Ron Artest back? Really?

I was thinking more of a couple minor moves like signing Channing Frye or Chris Wilcox with our MLE or perhaps something like this,

Pacers send - TJ Ford - 2009 1st - Marquis Daniels

Warriors send - Monta Ellis - Brandon Wright

The Warriors have been rumored to be shopping Wright and Ellis and Don Nelson is a big fan of Daniels.

[greenway84]

i would do that without blinking, but warriors laugh at us.

[chatard5]

Same. And yes, I am willing to bring Artest back. DGrange, you give out Pacer Points, so you should give yourself like 12 Pacer Points for agreeing with me.