What the Hawks need?

realfung · Post #1 » by **realfung** » Fri May 8, 2009 10:16 am

You guys beat the Heats to get here, but looks like you guys will have a 0-4 series.
What do you guys need to get better?

All 5 started you have are pretty good players. Is it chemistry? Is it experience? Or what?

betta1 · Post #2 » by **betta1** » Fri May 8, 2009 12:39 pm

realfung wrote:You guys beat the Heats to get here, but looks like you guys will have a 0-4 series.
What do you guys need to get better?

All 5 started you have are pretty good players. Is it chemistry? Is it experience? Or what?

We're down to 2 of our 5 starters right now, so it's hard to say.

conleyorbust · Post #3 » by **conleyorbust** » Fri May 8, 2009 2:07 pm

cavs are better than them heats... we could use a Lebron

LL Cool Scott · Post #4 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Fri May 8, 2009 2:40 pm

We need a star. We don't have one. Can't get far in the postseason without a go-to guy and a team that either has no heart and pride, or has quit on its coach. Probably need a new coach too, just to shake things up and see if these guys will respond to another voice.

saloonyk8 · Post #5 » by **saloonyk8** » Fri May 8, 2009 3:08 pm

New coach, Interior D, a real #2 scorer that's consistent

Master8492 · Post #6 » by **Master8492** » Fri May 8, 2009 3:09 pm

betta1 wrote:
realfung wrote:You guys beat the Heats to get here, but looks like you guys will have a 0-4 series.
What do you guys need to get better?

All 5 started you have are pretty good players. Is it chemistry? Is it experience? Or what?

We're down to 2 of our 5 starters right now, so it's hard to say.

Might be 3 this saturday

I was hoping they can pull out some home wins and maybe get it together for 1 road game but it's not looking pretty good.

killbuckner · Post #7 » by **killbuckner** » Fri May 8, 2009 3:30 pm

The Hawks need a #1 option. Joe needs to be a Tonto- he just isn't a Lone Ranger. In the playoffs when teams can focus on stopping him then he doesn't have that next gear.

parson · Post #8 » by **parson** » Fri May 8, 2009 3:45 pm

If you watched CHI beat the Celtics in game 6 (or ANY Dwayne Wade game), you saw the need for a penetrator. If you'd ever watched a good low post scorer, you would realize we don't have one. If you've watched how Steve Nash can destroy a team with fast breaks to great athletes, you'd know we have the athletes but don't run. We need those 3 things: penetration, low post scoring and to use the fast break.

Marvelous can do penetrate; he's one, but we don't use him enough. Smoove would be unstoppable as a penetrator (especially if he learned to protect his dribble just a little bit more --- and if he'd learn to use the backboard, but that's just me) BUT WE DON'T USE HIM that way. Acie is an impressive penetrator but we don't play him much at all. Joe tries to penetrate; it's part of the reason I really respect him: he sees our need and tries to answer it. But he's not the type, so we're using him improperly when we give him the ball and ask him to create penetration on his own.

And, as for running, I wish I knew why we don't.

We should attack these 3 problems this way:

1) We need to run Joe around picks so he can get open shots. While we're doing that, Marvelous and Smoove (and Horford, as well) can have open spaces to receive the ball and penetrate. I'm talking about the open spaces created by all the pick-and-roll's and give-and-go's (and mares eat oats and does eat oats and little lambs eat ivys) we'd be running.

2) As the defense ran around the picks, Smoove (especially) would find it easier to post up down low, solving our 2nd biggest problem. Horford, too, to a lesser degree. I think Smoove is a fantastic prospect for stardom and I think his jump hook is an (as I said earlier) unstoppable weapon in the low post.

3) Mike Bibby runs an offense better in the open court than he does in the half court. In the full court, he acts like a true PG, looking for his teammates (and throwing terrific lobs), but in the half court, he is just barely a PG but, instead, he plays like a 2-guard who looks for his own shot too much. But with the athletes we have and Bibby's demonstrated ability to run, we could run some teams off the court IF WE'D JUST TRY.

LL, you said we need a star and that we presently don't have one. I think Joe could be a Reggie Miller-type of star but we're trying to make him a Michael Jordan. I also think Smoove could be a poor-man's LeBron James if he could handle the ball a bit better, but we're standing him out on the perimeter, instead, where he has only two options: give the ball up or shoot a 3. Great scheme, there.

I'd say we need a coach who'll run an offense that works to get Joe open the way IND got Miller open. I'd also say I'd love to see a coach who'll "coach up" Smoove's game. If Marvelous had a few plays run for him, rather than our guards gunning selfishly, I think he'd give us a 3 star. I believe Horford's speed gives him a chance to blow past slower centers, if he'd use some of it, which we never use in our "offensive scheme." I think Acie has potential to be valuable to us in an all-around way, offensively and defensively, in the half court and full court, but our coach's treatment of him baffles me.

I'd say Mike Bibby and Flip Murray are the only players Woodson is using the right way, and that bothers me.

Read between the lines and you'll see what I think we REALLY need.

killbuckner · Post #9 » by **killbuckner** » Fri May 8, 2009 3:51 pm

Just out of curiosity Parson- where do you think the Hawks ranked in fast break points this season?

raleigh · Post #10 » by **raleigh** » Fri May 8, 2009 3:56 pm

TJ Ford???

parson · Post #11 » by **parson** » Fri May 8, 2009 3:56 pm

Guys, I sorry that last post was so long. Stream of consciousness, you know.

For those who refuse to read all that (and I don't blame you),

we need to penetrate
we need to post up down low
we need to run

And we need a new coach.

parson · Post #12 » by **parson** » Fri May 8, 2009 4:02 pm

killbuckner wrote:Just out of curiosity Parson- where do you think the Hawks ranked in fast break points this season?

I take you off my ignore list and you pull this?

We have terrific athletes, so we run better than most teams, but we don't run fast breaks as a part of our scheme. Why can't you stop playing games with discussions? Are you incapable of logical thought?

Listen, junior, if you have a point to make, MAKE IT.

killbuckner · Post #13 » by **killbuckner** » Fri May 8, 2009 4:03 pm

Parson- that was just a straight up question. Where do you believe that the Hawks ranked in fast break points this season? It just seems like you think that the Hawks don't run very much and I am curious to hear how much you think they run compared to the rest of the league.

parson · Post #14 » by **parson** » Fri May 8, 2009 4:04 pm

mrhonline wrote:TJ Ford???

Yes.

And if he shot the 3 better, Woodson should offer to bear his children.

parson · Post #15 » by **parson** » Fri May 8, 2009 4:09 pm

killbuckner wrote:Parson- that was just a straight up question. Where do you believe that the Hawks ranked in fast break points this season? It just seems like you think that the Hawks don't run very much and I am curious to hear how much you think they run compared to the rest of the league.

No it wasn't. It was a foolish game. If you think the Hawks are a good fast break team, say so. Do you think the Hawks even TRY to get out and run?

All I see is a team that runs when it's obvious ... AND then runs with great athletes.

What do you see? Besides games, that is.

killbuckner · Post #16 » by **killbuckner** » Fri May 8, 2009 4:13 pm

The Hawks are a top 5 fastbreak team. The league leaders were the warriors who worship at the altar of the fast break and get a whopping 3 points more than the Hawks on the break. I just think its curious to read your diatribe where you don't think the Hawks run when they are a top 5 fastbreak team this year and were last year as well.

parson · Post #17 » by **parson** » Fri May 8, 2009 4:32 pm

I asked you what you see when you watch us and I asked you what you thought.

Act like a grownup: state your opinion and then present your arguments. But, looking for a short moment, you said we were a "top 5" fastbreaking team last season. With what PG? How can you say it's our offensive scheme when we didn't have our PG? Bibby only came to us late in the season.

If we're doing well by whatever criteria the source you're referring to is using, what does that tell you? The statistics may just show we have great athletes, don'cha think?

You bring out the worst in me; gotta run.

killbuckner · Post #18 » by **killbuckner** » Fri May 8, 2009 5:05 pm

The Hawks have a frontline better suited to transition than to halfcourt so they run when the situation calls for it. They don't press the issue in bad situations like golden state does and I am happy about it. When I watch the Hawks I see them on the break when they force a miss or get a steal and can get guys ahead of the defense.

I think that you are under the mistaken impression that what teams do in college would work in the pros where they push it at every opportunity no matter what. NBA teams are good at preventing fast break points and there is only so much you can do in that area. If you think the Hawks should be doing more doubling and going for steals to get more opportunities then thats a perfectly valid POV but I think its really ridiculous to act like the Hawks don't run when they are a top 5 team in fast break points.

LL Cool Scott · Post #19 » by **LL Cool Scott** » Fri May 8, 2009 6:14 pm

Is there anyone out there who still thinks Joe Johnson is a guy that can lead a team deep in the playoffs? Or that this team has a nucleus that can go deep in the playoffs?

In a sense I'm glad this team is getting exposed right now - maybe it will lead to a shake-up.

conleyorbust · Post #20 » by **conleyorbust** » Fri May 8, 2009 6:45 pm

LL Cool Scott wrote:Is there anyone out there who still thinks Joe Johnson is a guy that can lead a team deep in the playoffs? Or that this team has a nucleus that can go deep in the playoffs?

In a sense I'm glad this team is getting exposed right now - maybe it will lead to a shake-up.

Yeah, I'm pretty pissed that we didn't get Lebron this summer. Sund didn't even try for him at the deadline.