All Nba defensive team

Dexmor · Post #1 » by **Dexmor** » Wed May 6, 2009 8:24 pm

Anybody disagree with the teams.

First team

Paul
Kobe
Lebron
KG
Howard

2nd team

Rando
Wade
Battier
Artest
Duncan

Anybody surprised by this? I think Paul should not be on the first team and Battier should have been.
Although I will say there is nobody who deserved it more that are not on one of the teams. Nobody got snubbed.

Post #2 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Wed May 6, 2009 8:31 pm

Iggy missed out, but I think the guys that made it deserved to.

thruthefire · Post #3 » by **thruthefire** » Wed May 6, 2009 8:34 pm

Felton is without-a-doubt a better defender than Paul.

KG shouldn't have made it. A guy who played 57 games making an all-defensive team, and first-team at that, makes we want to vomit and clean it up with comet.

Kobe shouldn't have been first-team, and Okafor should have made it!

CaNt NObodY teLL mE NuTtIN'!

Dexmor · Post #4 » by **Dexmor** » Wed May 6, 2009 8:47 pm

thruthefire wrote:Felton is without-a-doubt a better defender than Paul.

KG shouldn't have made it. A guy who played 57 games making an all-defensive team, and first-team at that, makes we want to vomit and clean it up with comet.

Kobe shouldn't have been first-team, and Okafor should have made it!

CaNt NObodY teLL mE NuTtIN'!

Mek making all defensive team is a stretch.

As for the other points I actually bring up an excellent point. Im impressed. KG did not deserve it because 57 games is not enough. Who would you have put over Kobe? Arguably Artest and Battier but that's it.

Felton is not a better defender then Paul. That is a joke. If your serious about it let me know and ill break it down for ya.

thruthefire · Post #5 » by **thruthefire** » Wed May 6, 2009 9:15 pm

http://atthehive.wordpress.com/2008/04/ ... t-defense/

Enlighten me, Dex.

Post #6 » by **Paydro70** » Wed May 6, 2009 10:34 pm

I agree with Walt, Iguodala is the notable absence. My own list:
Rondo
Kobe
Iguodala
LeBron
Howard

2nd team:
Wade
Battier
Artest
Duncan
Yao

As for Paul, adjusted +/- is noisy statistically, and that article is from last year... take a look at the top defensive players from this year:
http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.p ... torder=ASC

He's #42 this year, and thus above-average. So either Paul got a lot better, or (IMO) he's just a pretty average defender who gets a lot of steals.

Post #7 » by **fatlever** » Wed May 6, 2009 10:34 pm

wade over paul, battier over garnett

Dexmor · Post #8 » by **Dexmor** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:18 pm

Paul is all over the place on D. He creates havoc. Plus on the ball he is one of the best. He uses his speed on D so it's not easy to blow by hi,. I read that article and they said some examples of him getting scored on but he gets steals without gambling and hurting his team for stats like AI. He gets the steals and keeps a body on his man. That is very hard. MJ would do that and it was not easy. If your quick and you gamble all the time you will get steals. It's not hard but if your covering your man and your timing is awesome and you hustle which Chris Paul does that's something different all together. Plus I know this is offense but each one of his steals is an automatic 2 points because he can't be stopped in the open court.
Don't be a homer, don't say Felton is better then Paul. It's possible to be a fan and be objective.

thruthefire · Post #9 » by **thruthefire** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:43 pm

This is like your opinion that Boozer is a very good defender, eventhough, subjectively and objectively that is entirely untrue ...

thruthefire · Post #10 » by **thruthefire** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:47 pm

Dexmor wrote:I read that article and they said some examples of him getting scored on but he gets steals without gambling and hurting his team for stats like AI.

Actually, the article has stats from the entire season that show he is not only an overrated defender, but a below average one.

But hey, he get's a lot of steals, so he must be MJ 2.0 defensively ...

thruthefire · Post #11 » by **thruthefire** » Mon May 11, 2009 7:49 pm

Chris Paul doesn't gamble for steals ... his momma can't say that with a straight face.

Dexmor · Post #12 » by **Dexmor** » Mon May 11, 2009 8:43 pm

Word son.

thruthefire · Post #13 » by **thruthefire** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:13 pm

Carlos Boozer is a great defender ...

:lol:

Dexmor · Post #14 » by **Dexmor** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:21 pm

I didn't say great but anybody who hustles on D, boxes out and grabs boards and guards 7 footers all the time as well as pf's and even gets a steal a game is a decent defender. I don't know why you think he is Dirk on D as a rookie but they told you wrong.
Do you know who Jerry Sloan is? He would not let the team be built around Boozer and Williams if Boozer was this terrible defender. Why does Sloan always put him on Yao if he is so terrible and always on the other teams best big?
We will have to agree to disagree and being that you think Felton is a better defender then the first all nba defender Chris Paul I always glad to agree to disagree.

Smiley face

thruthefire · Post #15 » by **thruthefire** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:27 pm

The numbers disagree with both of your views ... especially the one that Boozer is good, above average, or whatever the **** ever ... he sucks at defense. Plain and simple.

End of discussion.

Dexmor · Post #16 » by **Dexmor** » Mon May 11, 2009 9:36 pm

Exactly what numbers would that be?

Chris Paul was voted on to all nba d when you are probably literally the only person in the world who thinks Felton is better.

As for Boozer what numbers show I am wrong. Everything I said was correct. You have not made one point that saying Boozer is a bad defender.

I think I have figured it out though. You make alot of Bias comments, homerism they call it. My guess is you hate Duke and love UNC. That would explain the Boozer hating and the Felton over Paul.
Unc fan right? You don't have to answer. We know.

thruthefire · Post #17 » by **thruthefire** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:06 pm

http://www.82games.com/0809/08UTA11.HTM

Boozer has an Opponent Counterpart PER of 22.5 at the power forward position.
Boozer has an Opponent Counterpart PER of 17.9 at the center position.

BOTH of these are higher than his PER of 21.3 at the power forward position and PER of 16.8 at the center position.

That equals -1.3 at the power forward position and -1.1 at the center position.

In layman's terms, he's been outplayed by the man across from him this season.

Also, the Jazz gave up 5 ppg less per 100 possessions with him off the court. Or in other words, 5 ppg more per 100 possessions with him on the court.

That's subjectively speaking ... Objectively, this is Hollinger's opinion on his defense:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/ ... yerId=1703

"Boozer cleans up on the glass, but is renowned for not defending much up until that point. He's a powerful leaper, but not a quick one, so he doesn't block many shots, and he doesn't move particularly well laterally -- especially when he has to guard quick fours on the perimeter. Boozer has the muscle to be a physical post defender but doesn't seem to relish this and mostly saves his strength for boxing out."

And if you ask any Jazz fan, (s)he will tell you Boozer is a bad defender, as well.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08CHA2.HTM

As for Felton, he had an Opponent Counterpart PER of 13.0 at the point guard position and 16.0 at the shooting guard position.

We also gave up 3.6 ppg less per 100 possessions with him on the court.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08NOH1.HTM

Paul, had an Opponent Counterpart PER of 17.2 at the point guard position and never guarded shooting guards, so there are no statistics to point out as far as that goes.

The Hornets gave up 3.4 ppg less per 100 possessions with him on the court.

As far as Paul being first-team all defensive being the basis of your argument, he did make second-team all defensive last season, eventhough the article I posted shows he wasn't an elite defender by any means. The all-defensive team has basically become the the equivalent of getting a Gold Glove in baseball ... mostly based on superstardom.

And my personal opinion ...
Felton is much better at guarding shooting guards than Paul, and he finished the season with 30 blocks, which is second only to Jason Kidd, who is 6'4, among point guards. Chris Paul averaged 2.77 spg, which is terrific, but Felton was no slouch at 1.54 spg. Obviously, this doesn't account for the entire difference, but Paul is a known gambler, while I can't remember the last time Felton gambled for steals.

FEEL FREE TO COME BACK AND GET OWNED ANYTIME.

Dexmor · Post #18 » by **Dexmor** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:14 pm

Im impressed. This would be your best post if you didn't have to write that owned b.s. at the end. Couldn't help yourself could ya?

As for that plus minus vs. pf's and C's I don't buy much into that at all espially since in the first quarter he could be guarding a C and the 2nd quarter a pf. I mean if his C was a stud defensively those numbers would be better. There's a little bit of Okur in there. Plus he is 6'8 and if your a scoring center and you see Boozer your licking your chops.

Paul and Felton is just redicoulus no matter how good you are at making debates. If I didn't watch ball and this was a debate you would get alot of points in the last post but the truth is it isn't close.
Kirk Hinrick is the best at guarding 2's and even guards sf's but he isn't the best pg defender in the league although he is close.

thruthefire · Post #19 » by **thruthefire** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:19 pm

If you left the UNC stab out at the end of your post, I wouldn't have wrote that. :lol:

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Dexmor · Post #20 » by **Dexmor** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:52 pm

The Unc was a total guess. I really didn't know. I to am a Unc fan and always have been even before I ever dreamed I would be living here.