Petrie out scouting Rubio in the next couple days.....

[tisbee]

MitchWeber,
Altho I am a "traditionalist" in that I believe you have to have a dominant big to win it all,the current rules really are geared to letting perimeter players run wild.
Since Jordan retired the second time,Shaq or Duncan have 8 titles. KG led Celts 1 and the Billups Pistons 1. If you believe Duncan is a center in function if not in name,that's 1 title for a PG-driven team and 1 for a PF-driven team.
I believe you can win w/a dominant C and mediocre PG play,and vice-versa,but you can't w/a dominant PF and mediocre PG play. Personal opinion.
As to the specifics in this draft,Blake seems more of a sure thing and if the Kings have the choice that's prob the way to go. But,and it's a big but,the team believes Rubio can be an elite PG,then it becomes horribly difficult to choose w/Atlanta and Chicago as precautionary examples.

But what kind of coach you eventually hire and his philosophy on how an offense should be run is just as important in deciding who to draft.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

I think it's ironic that we're so into fighting over RUbio/Griffin when we only have a 50% chance of getting either and litterally just 25% chance of each individually (25% #1 pick, 25% chance #2 pick)...

But, honeslty. Guard oriented NBA is happening. But when you have a big man so much better than the guard, it's not even worth discussing it IMO.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

MitchWeber,
Altho I am a "traditionalist" in that I believe you have to have a dominant big to win it all,the current rules really are geared to letting perimeter players run wild.
Since Jordan retired the second time,Shaq or Duncan have 8 titles. KG led Celts 1 and the Billups Pistons 1. If you believe Duncan is a center in function if not in name,that's 1 title for a PG-driven team and 1 for a PF-driven team.
I believe you can win w/a dominant C and mediocre PG play,and vice-versa,but you can't w/a dominant PF and mediocre PG play. Personal opinion.
As to the specifics in this draft,Blake seems more of a sure thing and if the Kings have the choice that's prob the way to go. But,and it's a big but,the team believes Rubio can be an elite PG,then it becomes horribly difficult to choose w/Atlanta and Chicago as precautionary examples.

But what kind of coach you eventually hire and his philosophy on how an offense should be run is just as important in deciding who to draft.

Except KG/Duncan play PF on their teams.

[Wolfay]

All I know is this- when C-Webb went down (a PF), the Kings have been screwed ever since.

[KingInExile]

Tisbee, I agree. However, you can find a point guard like that much easier than finding a big. Rondo and Parker both came in late first round. Cavs made a trade and got Mo Williams to help LeBron. Same with Denver in adding Billups.

If we do end up being able to get Griffin, we do it. We can always add the PG we need later on once we get better. We could end up getting that PG with our 23rd pick anyways. Who knows.

Let me ask this (not specifically to you, but to the general population), which player fits better long term into the system the Kings will likely run (a fast-paced offense with many Princeton traits and team-oriented defense)? To be honest, I have not paid enough attention to either Rubio or Griffin to form my own opinion (that's why I've been pretty quite in these threads since the end of the season). But I can say, based on my analytical nature, that the player with the best edge may just be the one that will fit better into the system. I know that there will be some who will say "screw the 'system', you have to take the best player then build your 'system' around them". Well, IMO, that's just not Petri. I believe that if he thinks the overall talent level between the two is close enough, he will defer to the one who better fits his plans.

So which player, Rubio or Griffin, has the better potential to fit Petrie's plans?

[tisbee]

Darkadun,I slightly disagree on how easy it is to find a PG. As a Rocket fan who couldn't quite buy Alston as a championship quality PG,I was constantly looking for better options and kept seeing how bleh so many PGs are today. For me,too many PGs are not real PGs,they're short SGs who get to dribble the ball upcourt. My pet saying is,"if the point guard is shooting,nobody else is". But that'a me.
But you are right that this draft is full of two types-PGs and short PFs. And considering it's very possible teams are looking to trade out of this draft,you could move up and perhaps grab a PG of your choosing.

I also agree w/KingInExile. Draft the player who best fits the system intended.
Too often teams draft the best athlete/player available,w/out giving any thought to how he'll fit in. Changing the system is not the best option if 9 of your players are suited for one system and the draftee isn't. A draftee who has a skillset that doesn't fit a particular system will get limited minutes from his coach,and those will often be ineffective,meaning you pretty much wasted a draft pick. It's irrelevant if that player goes on to succeed elsewhere,he wouldn't have had that success in the system he was unsuited for.

[Nicky Nix Nook]

Tisbee, I agree. However, you can find a point guard like that much easier than finding a big. Rondo and Parker both came in late first round. Cavs made a trade and got Mo Williams to help LeBron. Same with Denver in adding Billups.

If we do end up being able to get Griffin, we do it. We can always add the PG we need later on once we get better. We could end up getting that PG with our 23rd pick anyways. Who knows.

Let me ask this (not specifically to you, but to the general population), which player fits better long term into the system the Kings will likely run (a fast-paced offense with many Princeton traits and team-oriented defense)? To be honest, I have not paid enough attention to either Rubio or Griffin to form my own opinion (that's why I've been pretty quite in these threads since the end of the season). But I can say, based on my analytical nature, that the player with the best edge may just be the one that will fit better into the system. I know that there will be some who will say "screw the 'system', you have to take the best player then build your 'system' around them". Well, IMO, that's just not Petri. I believe that if he thinks the overall talent level between the two is close enough, he will defer to the one who better fits his plans.

So which player, Rubio or Griffin, has the better potential to fit Petrie's plans?

Well Griffin can pass and shoot from the PF position very well. Then you add in his crazy athleticism and you may have a superstar. Rubio is a pretty good 3pt shooter (at Euro range) and plays very good defense (although who knows how that translates into the NBA with bigger faster guards). He is a pass first PG (Williams, not Bibby) and he can drive quite well.

Honestly I started this post with the intention of proving Griffin was the Petrie pick but now, I am not sure at all haha. I think they equally fit and therefore Griffin will get the edge (if we pick Rubio first and he busts, Petrie will be fired). However the only way Rubio gets picked first is if Petrie drafts for need.

[Smills91]

KIE the princeton requires 5 shooters on the floor to be fully effective. While I think shooting is a skill than can definitely be improved, I'd venture to say that GRIFFIN is a better perimeter shooter than Rubio is. Rubio's shot leaves a lot to be desired. I think Rubio will have a career similar to Kidd(also a notoriously bad shooter, with phenomenal playmaking ability) and Griffin will have a career more geared along the lines of Karl Malone.

IMO you can build around a Karl Malone, MUCH better than you can a Jason Kidd. There will be other opportunities to land a pretty good PG, perhaps even with the #23 pick this year. I don't think you can replace a Blake Griffin level talent.

So with all that, I'd say GRIFFIN fits into the Princeton style offense better.

[pillwenney]

MitchWeber,
Altho I am a "traditionalist" in that I believe you have to have a dominant big to win it all,the current rules really are geared to letting perimeter players run wild.
Since Jordan retired the second time,Shaq or Duncan have 8 titles. KG led Celts 1 and the Billups Pistons 1. If you believe Duncan is a center in function if not in name,that's 1 title for a PG-driven team and 1 for a PF-driven team.
I believe you can win w/a dominant C and mediocre PG play,and vice-versa,but you can't w/a dominant PF and mediocre PG play. Personal opinion.
As to the specifics in this draft,Blake seems more of a sure thing and if the Kings have the choice that's prob the way to go. But,and it's a big but,the team believes Rubio can be an elite PG,then it becomes horribly difficult to choose w/Atlanta and Chicago as precautionary examples.

But what kind of coach you eventually hire and his philosophy on how an offense should be run is just as important in deciding who to draft.

I would argue that Detroit wasn't built around its PG and that Boston wasn't built around it's PF, but rather that both were built around a core group of players--which is an option and will likely be how this team works if we don't get Griffin or Rubio, or if we do get one, and they don't come near their ceiling (which is a possibility). I would also say that Miami was more based around its SG--which is one of the extenuating circumstances I was talking about. You can build around the wing if that wing is a superstar--Lebron, Kobe and Wade qualify. But we're not getting that. And I'm not sure if the same is true for a PG. My main point though is that you need something equivalent to a post presence. Guard-centered, fast break teams look great during the regular season, but less so in the playoffs.

KIE the princeton requires 5 shooters on the floor to be fully effective. While I think shooting is a skill than can definitely be improved, I'd venture to say that GRIFFIN is a better perimeter shooter than Rubio is. Rubio's shot leaves a lot to be desired. I think Rubio will have a career similar to Kidd(also a notoriously bad shooter, with phenomenal playmaking ability) and Griffin will have a career more geared along the lines of Karl Malone.

IMO you can build around a Karl Malone, MUCH better than you can a Jason Kidd. There will be other opportunities to land a pretty good PG, perhaps even with the #23 pick this year. I don't think you can replace a Blake Griffin level talent.

So with all that, I'd say GRIFFIN fits into the Princeton style offense better.

I don't think either is a particularly great fit for our system. But I would say that Rubio is at least a better shooter than you give him credit for. He shoots really good percentages when set--which wasn't true for Kidd for a lot of his career. And I think that with Coachie's help, he could work on his pull-up game. And he needs to work on it.

But anyway, with Griffin still being a relatively unproven passer and shooter and Rubio's strength's really lying in his playmaking ability, I don't think either is an ideal fit, and that we should just go off of who we think will be the superior talent and easier to build around.

[Nicky Nix Nook]

KIE the princeton requires 5 shooters on the floor to be fully effective. While I think shooting is a skill than can definitely be improved, I'd venture to say that GRIFFIN is a better perimeter shooter than Rubio is. Rubio's shot leaves a lot to be desired. I think Rubio will have a career similar to Kidd(also a notoriously bad shooter, with phenomenal playmaking ability) and Griffin will have a career more geared along the lines of Karl Malone.

IMO you can build around a Karl Malone, MUCH better than you can a Jason Kidd. There will be other opportunities to land a pretty good PG, perhaps even with the #23 pick this year. I don't think you can replace a Blake Griffin level talent.

So with all that, I'd say GRIFFIN fits into the Princeton style offense better.

well he is shooting 42% from 3pt line. Granted it is the Euro three.

[darkadun]

Darkadun,I slightly disagree on how easy it is to find a PG. As a Rocket fan who couldn't quite buy Alston as a championship quality PG,I was constantly looking for better options and kept seeing how bleh so many PGs are today. For me,too many PGs are not real PGs,they're short SGs who get to dribble the ball upcourt. My pet saying is,"if the point guard is shooting,nobody else is". But that'a me.
But you are right that this draft is full of two types-PGs and short PFs. And considering it's very possible teams are looking to trade out of this draft,you could move up and perhaps grab a PG of your choosing.

True. But IMO its much harder to find a dominant big than a good point guard. Look around the league, how many dominant bigs are there? Yao is probably the best right now. Duncan, Shaq and KG are, but past their prime aging. Then you have Dwight Howard who is dominant on defense and rebounding, but not quite there yet to dominate with his offense. So thats what, maybe 5 players?
In comparison, you more "allstar" caliber guards in just the western conference right now. Paul, Williams, Billups, Kidd, Nash.....so thats my point. Great bigs don't come around as often as guards do.

So which player, Rubio or Griffin, has the better potential to fit Petrie's plans?

Good question. I'm not sure to be honest....they both have skills that fit the system well. Yet, Rubio strikes me to be more in the mold of a "petrie player", with his court vision and excellent passing, and as mitch mentioned his shot can get alot better, he is only 18, so thats not a major concern to me. Griffin can certainly be good in the system, but I haven't really seen his outside shot or his passing skills, so I can't comment on it fairly. But he is a very athletic running big who can finish around the rim.

I think we should just draft both of them, let Rubio pass to to Blake in the open floor for the throwdown. Game over. lol

[tisbee]

Darkadun,
I'm not so sure on the multitude of PGs over Cs today.
Finally we're seeing a bunch of good young C's. They may specialize in defense or offense,but that's what the past NBA had. You have a very good young one,then there's Dwight,Bynum,Oden,Bogurt,Biedrins,B.Lopez who are all capable of averaging a double-double,Perkins who is becoming a very good defensive C,Noah who seems to be getting it. The last draft had several C prospects and it's possible one of them pans out. Marc Gasol is very,very serviceable.
That's not counting the young 4s who are often manning the center spot-Amare,Bosh,Jefferson,Okafor,Horford.

[Smills91]

Darkadun,
I'm not so sure on the multitude of PGs over Cs today.
Finally we're seeing a bunch of good young C's. They may specialize in defense or offense,but that's what the past NBA had. You have a very good young one,then there's Dwight,Bynum,Oden,Bogurt,Biedrins,B.Lopez who are all capable of averaging a double-double,Perkins who is becoming a very good defensive C,Noah who seems to be getting it. The last draft had several C prospects and it's possible one of them pans out. Marc Gasol is very,very serviceable.
That's not counting the young 4s who are often manning the center spot-Amare,Bosh,Jefferson,Okafor,Horford.

Of those only DWIGHT appears to have SUPERSTAR ability, the others are just solid or have a relative large bunch of flaws to their games.

I'd say PG is a MUCH more promising position...Paul, Williams, Rose, Conley, Harris, Nelson, Augustin, etc etc etc

[pillwenney]

I'd say PG is a MUCH more promising position...Paul, Williams, Rose, Conley, Harris, Nelson, Augustin, etc etc etc

That means that the PG position is more talented throughout the league--it is, but that doesn't make it more important.

[Nicky Nix Nook]

Darkadun,
I'm not so sure on the multitude of PGs over Cs today.
Finally we're seeing a bunch of good young C's. They may specialize in defense or offense,but that's what the past NBA had. You have a very good young one,then there's Dwight,Bynum,Oden,Bogurt,Biedrins,B.Lopez who are all capable of averaging a double-double,Perkins who is becoming a very good defensive C,Noah who seems to be getting it. The last draft had several C prospects and it's possible one of them pans out. Marc Gasol is very,very serviceable.
That's not counting the young 4s who are often manning the center spot-Amare,Bosh,Jefferson,Okafor,Horford.

Of those only DWIGHT appears to have SUPERSTAR ability, the others are just solid or have a relative large bunch of flaws to their games.

I'd say PG is a MUCH more promising position...Paul, Williams, Rose, Conley, Harris, Nelson, Augustin, etc etc etc

Really. He is still overrated?

[Draino]

he's not overrated he just plays on a bad team, and yes he is in the making of a veery good point guard in this league

[Smills91]

I'd say PG is a MUCH more promising position...Paul, Williams, Rose, Conley, Harris, Nelson, Augustin, etc etc etc

That means that the PG position is more talented throughout the league--it is, but that doesn't make it more important.

I don't think PG is more important. I think dominant post players are the necessary ingredient for contention.

[Smills91]

Darkadun,
I'm not so sure on the multitude of PGs over Cs today.
Finally we're seeing a bunch of good young C's. They may specialize in defense or offense,but that's what the past NBA had. You have a very good young one,then there's Dwight,Bynum,Oden,Bogurt,Biedrins,B.Lopez who are all capable of averaging a double-double,Perkins who is becoming a very good defensive C,Noah who seems to be getting it. The last draft had several C prospects and it's possible one of them pans out. Marc Gasol is very,very serviceable.
That's not counting the young 4s who are often manning the center spot-Amare,Bosh,Jefferson,Okafor,Horford.

Of those only DWIGHT appears to have SUPERSTAR ability, the others are just solid or have a relative large bunch of flaws to their games.

I'd say PG is a MUCH more promising position...Paul, Williams, Rose, Conley, Harris, Nelson, Augustin, etc etc etc

Really. He is still overrated?

You were't paying much attention to his 2nd half of this season.

[brassviews]

16 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists for Rubio after returning from injury.

[Nicky Nix Nook]

I'd say PG is a MUCH more promising position...Paul, Williams, Rose, Conley, Harris, Nelson, Augustin, etc etc etc

Really. He is still overrated?

You were't paying much attention to his 2nd half of this season.

Oh but I was. He still doesn't belong in the same thought as the other players listed. 1 good half of a season doesn't mean anything. Just ask Beno Udrih (well not a great example but the point still stands)