What Should the Wizards Should Do with the 5th Pick?

[nate33]

I'd rank our options as follows:

1. Go after Bosh. I'd offer #5 + McGee + Jamison + filler and take back Kapono if necessary. The bottom line is that we need to upgrade the Big Three if we ever want to compete for a championship. Bosh is very good and still pretty young. If we can get him while hanging onto Arenas, Butler, Haywood and one of Blatche/McGee, we will have a core to build around for years.

2. If Option 1 doesn't pan out, my next favorite option is to trade down with Toronto while dumping Stevenson. I think the players at #9 will be about as good as the players at #5, and by saving Abe $18M over 2 season, it'll increase the likelihood that he'll gamble on a high-priced impact player in the future when an opportunity presents itself. At #9, I'd go for the usual suspects already mentioned in this thread (Curry, Blair, Lawson, Henderson).

3. If 1 and 2 above both fail, I'd lean toward drafting Harden. It's an uninspiring choice, but his skillset does mesh well with the ball club, and there's always a chance that a young draft pick can surprise to the upside. As a side benefit, by drafting him at #5 on draft day, it'll increase the likelihood of Option #2 of happening at the last minute when Toronto is on the clock.

4. My last choice would be to trade out of the draft completely for an uninspiring, high-priced veteran like Mike Miller, Josh Childress or Kirk Hinrich. Those guys would help the team, but they're not good enough to vault us into contention. It'll just hurt our cap, reduce or stockpile of young talent, and in general reduce our options for acquiring talent in the future.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ernie already leaked his draft strategy with the Griffin, Rubio or bust thing. Sure, he likes to play it tricksy this time of year but for once I believe him. The only way I see this changing(and it would make it very obvious his strategy would change as well) is if we dealt Young and Blatche before the draft for a vet, allowing us to take a gamble on a Hill or Evans. Barring that type of move, we are going for best fit, instant contributor type. James Harden.
I think all the Harden haters on this board are pretty ridiculous. No, he doesn't have a 40 inch vertical or a 3.14 shuttle time but neither do a hell of a lot of other good to great players in this league. By the time next years playoffs came around I think he would be averaging about 15/3/3 with solid percentages which would ALREADY be an upgrade to Deshawn. I think his strength is also a pretty big asset and when paired with his smarts, will help him to be at least an average defender next year. Let's not forget the guy was only a sophomore this year (19 years old) so there is plenty of room for improvement in his game and body.

I will take that any day over Vince for $15mil or a broken down Redd. The only alternative to this I see is trading for Amare or Bosh. I'd love to see either of those, especially if it means we send out Jamison(to clear the log jam and cap space).

Agreed.

I'm completely opposed to giving the pick and filler for an over-the-hill, overpaid SG like Vince or Rip. And I wouldn't trade for Redd because we don't need another all offense/no defense starter.

The bottom line is that we will be hamstrung for years if we acquire another 8-figure salary to go alongside the Big Three + Haywood. It just can't work in this league. If our Big Three isn't good enough to get it done with just the help of role players on rookie contracts and MLE salaries, then the problem is our Big Three, not our bench.

I'd much rather just draft Harden at #5 than get Vince/Rip/Redd etc. We won't win a championship, but we'll keep the salary under control so that we can make a move later.

I understand your point, Nate, but tell me - what is the direction of this team?

Trading the pick for a guy like Hamilton at least gives us some sort of direction. It says we're going to win now. As I've said, that move doesn't necessarily have to be the last move we make (and I'd hope it wouldn't be). It would potentially be followed up with a deal that swaps Jamison for a defensive power forward.

The point here, though, is that this is a team that has absolutely no direction. Are we rebuilding? Are we contending? The answer? Neither - we're in NBA Purgatory.

The problem is that, unless we have a yard-sale and get rid of Arenas, Butler and Jamison, we're not in a position to rebuild which would make keeping the pick utterly pointless to me. So the pick *might* be good in 2-4 years? Wonderful.....but the rest of our core will be over the hill by that time.

I think the best course of action here is to go through a step-by-step process to getting our team to title-form in the shortest amount of time. Not rebuilding. Not stockpiling more young players. Contending. We do this, first, by establishing ourselves as a sure-fire 50-55-win team by acquiring Hamilton or Carter (I have no interest in Redd). Follow it up with a Jamison trade (maybe for a Kenyon Martin or an Andrei Kirilenko) and see what happens.

m31t, I think you are 100% correct.

I know I voted just draft Blair at #5, but it's obvious this team's a trade away from being something special. The Wizards need to do something quickly because they need to extend Haywood and they need to do something while Abe's still on this side of the ground.

Like you, I like Hamilton or (prefer) Carter. Jamison for Kirilenko is something they could consider but the salary might not make it feasible (i dunno, ask nate cuz he does).

I believe they need to make a bold move because they won't be worse next season no matter what.

[spaceman_E]

I have an irrational hope that we get Harden and he's the next Roy or Pierce. What is holding him back from exceeding expectations? He seems to have a common skill set with at least Roy.

Roy finishes with both hands, was noted as a good defender in college, has better natural athletic grace. Lean and strong and coordinated. Open court handle.

Harden was playing in a system that was drafted specifically to suit his strengths while hiding his weaknesses. Has only a left hand (even switching mid-air to finish lefty at the rim). Is sturdy/strong but not especially quick. Hits open shots but doesn't shoot well when guarded outside/off the dribble, doesn't break his man down with his handle, needs a screen to get free. Handles best in a halfcourt set.

But both are smart team players who were knocked in college because they looked to set their teammates up before they tried to get their own. Harden will get open shots in any offense next to Gil/Caron/Jamison and will make the smart pass when the smart shot isn't there. Thick around the middle no telling if he'll gain more bounce as he leans up and works hard. No telling what his defensive capabilities are since the scheme he played in didn't test it-- but he played a similar defensive scheme to the one Flip likes best and he's a good floor leader who will help teach his teammates how to run the match-up zone, tell them where to be when.

Again, for better and for worse he's the anti-Nick Young.

I think it's unfair to compare college stats considering Roy played 4 years, Harden just 2. I couldn't find the numbers but I highly doubt Roy was as effective as Harden as a Sophomore. I see a lot of potential for James to be a deadeye shooter and just a really crafty scorer while still being a solid defender. I said Mitch Richmond before but Pierce/Roy are solid comparisons as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have an irrational hope that we get Harden and he's the next Roy or Pierce. What is holding him back from exceeding expectations? He seems to have a common skill set with at least Roy.

Roy finishes with both hands, was noted as a good defender in college, has better natural athletic grace. Lean and strong and coordinated. Open court handle.

Harden was playing in a system that was drafted specifically to suit his strengths while hiding his weaknesses. Has only a left hand (even switching mid-air to finish lefty at the rim). Is sturdy/strong but not especially quick. Hits open shots but doesn't shoot well when guarded outside/off the dribble, doesn't break his man down with his handle, needs a screen to get free. Handles best in a halfcourt set.

But both are smart team players who were knocked in college because they looked to set their teammates up before they tried to get their own. Harden will get open shots in any offense next to Gil/Caron/Jamison and will make the smart pass when the smart shot isn't there. Thick around the middle no telling if he'll gain more bounce as he leans up and works hard. No telling what his defensive capabilities are since the scheme he played in didn't test it-- but he played a similar defensive scheme to the one Flip likes best and he's a good floor leader who will help teach his teammates how to run the match-up zone, tell them where to be when.

Again, for better and for worse he's the anti-Nick Young.

So's Morris Almond.

I think the easiest thing in the world would be to pick up somebody else's thrown away player as a UFA. Toronto took interest in Quincy Douby after he was dumped. The Wizards traded for Crittenton after LA and Memphis had no use for him. Maybe neither Douby nor Crit is much of a player.

I just refuse to believe I'm that wrong about Almond. Honestly, if Novak is a player(finally), Morris Almond is a much better one. I think Almond does very little other than score and that he's mechanical as a pro. Same was true of Micheal Redd his first couple seasons.

I truly believe Almond could play SG for the Wizards and be good. I'm not giving up yet. He's way younger than Mason Jr., and he's similar to Roger.

[tkunit]

I don't see how a trade for Bosh/amare or dirk wouldn't include caron. If its bosh how do we keep him, caron and haywood.

Move AJ to the 3 and after this season to the pine. let dom become the 3 of the future and maybe we can get a so so year out of stevensuck.

[LyricalRico]

^ Maybe they can do both, especially if Abe doesn't care about the money anymore. We do nate's trade for Bosh and put together another one for VC or Hamilton (I say VC since his deal is shorter and he can play 2 positions).

TRADE #1

Jamison+McGee+James+$5 for Bosh+Kapono

TRADE #2

Young+Blatche+Stevenson+Etan for Carter+Douglas-Roberts+S.Williams

FINAL LINEUP

Haywood/Williams
Bosh/Songaila
Butler/McGuire
Carter/Kapono
Arenas/Crittenton

Deep bench - #33, CDR, FA

We screw the luxury tax, Flip gets everybody to swallow their ego, and we make a run at it.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

One thing that has not been mentioned too often is the hope (perhaps misguided) of the development of the Wizards young guys (McGee, Blatche, McGuire, Young, Critt, Pech yeah sure). The problem with that scenario is that even best case that will take a few more years and by then the window of opportunity might be closing. I do believe that trying to achieve cross purposes simultaneously with the hope of maintaining some flexibility is problematic.

I think so much of this always goes back to the "big 3". They're being paid as if they were the trio that should allow the Wizards to contend seriously but realistically they're not going to pull that off. They're good enough to maybe get to the second round of the playoffs, but not any farther. Jamison and Butler are simply a poor tandem defensively and that will not change. Having to keep both Jamison and Butler means the Wizards will always be poor defensively at the forward spots. Butler on his own can be adequate but playing with Jamison does not help him. We don't know how Arenas will play or if he will hold up. Assuming Gil is healthy (a big if), I would build around him as the cornerstone offensive piece and Haywood as the defensive anchor. They both with good health should be effective players for another four years I would think. Then I would evaluate how to configure the assets of Jamison and Butler with our other pieces as the team is re-built. I don't see this happening because management wants to believe they have a contender and they are emotionally attached to Jamison and don't want to make the hard choices that will likely mean the Wizards will need to re-build over the next few years.

Benjammin, that might be what the Wizards end up doing prior to mid-season if they aren't playoff-bound: Trade away Jamison and/or Butler.

The youth of the Wizards are too far away from making major contributions and the veteran forwards are essentially offensive, somewhat redundant players. I've fixated on Blair because he's a defensive player of the mold of noone on this team. A team that has players like Blair is Utah.

I wonder if there's a feasible sign and trade with Utah that the Wizards could send Caron and get Millsap plus a small forward the Jazz might draft? I think Jamison can play fine at SF if he's got a grinder-type PF next to him.

Moving Jamison to the 3 would open time for Blatche or McGee to get a little burn at 4 in addition to both playing 5.

Seems to me after SG, and assuming Gil's back and functional at PG, the biggest problem the Wizards have is between Caron and Antawn defensively. Everybody wanted Griffiin for reason. Maybe since the draft lottery didn't go well the Wizards go ahead and break up Caron/Antawn IF they don't get off to a good start under Saunders.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

guys..

there is no window of opportunity. There never was one so we are not defined by a team that needs to do something in the next 2 years. This team whether we keep it intact and add a player through draft or make a trade will never win a championship and probably not pass the 2nd round

Yeah, but that's besides the point, Ji.

Like I posted the other day in the playoffs thread: Orlando just by going past the second round is doing something the Wizards haven't done since the seventies. THAT'S 30 YEARS! This team hasn't won over 50 since it won over 60 darn near 35 years ago! With this number 1 overall, I can't see any way the Clippers shouldn't overtake the Wizards and not be the worst franchise loser.

But the good thing I love is how we obsess and waste so much time EVEN AFTER they only won 19 games.

Folks get depressed when I go on over how ludicrous I thought it was to let an injured guy opt out, not be healthy, but be rewarded with 111Mil over 7 years; because I thought it was very risky. That the kid's body could be breaking down. And that I thought not signing Gil or Jamison was probably the better option.

But NOW that they're paid well .... This bad team has cap problems on top of falling as far as possible in the draft lottery.

Ji, I still love the Wizards. So what if they suck and they never ever ever draft who I want them to.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If I had a choice of these options I'd take Blair at 5. He is a safe bet to help the Wizards. If not Blair then I'd draft Curry just to insure this team had a good pg on the court.
If I were to trade the pick I'd look for a bigman. I'd look for someone who can handle the 4 spot. AK, Chandler, Okafor-I've got a feeling CHA would trade him in a deal for Curry-, B. Wright or Biedrins maybe Bogut. I'd bank on the desire of teams wanting Curry or another pg at 5.

Now, what I hope the FO can pull off would be to bring in an allstar caliber player by combining the pick with some players on the roster. Amare will have to be traded by the Suns and the Raptors are kind of in the same boat with Chris Bosh. We know those 2 players are FA next summer and reportedly don't want to resign with there teams. Not trading Arenas or Haywood would be ideal since those two would be the hardest to replace. I really believe you could win a championship with Arenas, Haywood and one of those two players. This is the franchises best hope and I know the FO is looking into adding either of these two guys. There is also a slim possibility Boozer may end up forcing a sign and trade scenario. The Wizards interest in him might not be strong though.

You and I are kindred spirits, MF23!

I had Okafor on my mind before I even read your post. I wonder about his back issues and whether or not he can man the PF position.

I wonder if there's some way the Wizards could trade Jamison or Butler for Okafor?

[pancakes3]

you guys sure can fill up a thread in a hurry if properly motivated. i like nate's options but it will probably not pan out. it never does. we're going to be hopeful, but at a much lower level for the next month only to be slapped across the face come the draft. it's going to be a long summer, just like the last.

[miller31time]

Why do we have two years at most? If you ask me it all boils down to one player. Antawn Jamison. He's really the only greybeard on the roster of consequence. He'll turn 33 yrs old next month.

Gilbert Arenas is 27. Caron Butler is 29. Brendan Haywood is 29. None have the wear & tear associated with guys who came straight out of HS when they were 17 or 18 like Tracy McGrady or Jermaine O'Neal who aged significantly once they hit 30. The core of Arenas, Butler & Haywood has more than 2 seasons left. Outside of these guys, the team is relatively young with guys like Blatche, Young & McGee.

The key though is what to do with Jamison. If he's a vital piece to the puzzle as the Wizards would like to believe, then yes, time is ticking. If the Wizards could somehow come to the realization that Jamison with his age, salary & defensive concerns no longer fit into the team's plans, then the window of opportunity becomes longer.

Arenas will be 28 by the 2nd month of next season. Caron Butler will be 30 by the mid-point of next season. Brendan Haywood will be 30 by the start of next season.

NBA players generally peak around 29-30 so we're looking at next season being, arguably, the time we're going to be at our best (in terms of our top players playing at their peaks). I gave them another 2-3 years because once their peak is up, they'll still be very good for another 2-3 years. After that is when the inevitable fall occurs.

This is not even taking Jamison into consideration. I've already addressed what I think should be done with Jamison should a Hamilton/Carter trade occur - I'd like to trade him for a more defensive-oriented power forward. But you have to take this process step-by-step.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How about the #5, _____, and Crittenton

for

Josh Childress & the #19?

Hawks give up two pieces that they probably aren't really counting on anyway for a Top 5 pick.

Exactly, why does it take a top 5 pick to get two pieces that they probably aren't really counting on anways?

Why are we giving incredible value to a division rival that we'll likely be competing with for playoff positioning?

Why not use some other assets? Why not Nick Young and filler? Or Young & Critt? Why is the #5 the only asset people want to use to acquire average talent?

I don't hate Childress but it wasn't like he was lighting it up overseas. He's also likely to be looking for an above MLE sized contract. Considering our financial situation, I don't see the benefit in adding an expensive role player when we could draft a relatively cheap one with more upside on the rookie scale.

No, Dat, I have to say I love Sev's idea. Regardless of whether he's breached all trust with ATL and is not in their plans; Childress would become an asset to the Wizards.

Childress + #19 is most likely worth the #5.

We've discussed Carter or Hamilton coming in at SG and supplying something, I love Childress rebounding and TS% when he was in the NBA. He was among the very best finishers in the league. Dominic doesn't score much at all and Nick brings nothing but streaky offense. Childress OTOH is a bit like Battier in being better than his numbers.

I'd love Childress at SG for the Wizards!

[Ruzious]

Ok, here's my favorite choice for what to do with #5. I would take a Bosh trade, but I don't see it being feasible to re-sign him right away - and without a guarantee of him signing long-term, you can't give up what it would take to get him. So, basically I just ignore all the Bosh talk. Bosh.

So, this isn't nearly as flashy, but I'd trade 5 and either Blatche or McGee to Philly for Speights and 17. Philly then gets their choice of Harden, Evans, or Curry. At 17, I think one of the J point guards will slip to there - Johnny Flynn, Jrue Holliday, or Jeff Teague. It'd be interesting if we got Holliday at 17 and Green in the 2nd round. We could have a shutdown defensive perimeter game at some point in the future with those 2 and McGuire. Team them up with Haywood and Speights blocking everything up front... wow. Of course, scoring would be an issue - hello Gil, Caron, Tawn, and Young. Too bad we can't have platoon basketball.

Anyway, that's what I'd try to do. Speights is maybe the most under-valued/under-utilized talent in the NBA. And he really doesn't have much of a role n Philly - Blatche or McGee can fill it. And they get the guard of their choice.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'd rank our options as follows:

1. Go after Bosh. I'd offer #5 + McGee + Jamison + filler and take back Kapono if necessary. The bottom line is that we need to upgrade the Big Three if we ever want to compete for a championship. Bosh is very good and still pretty young. If we can get him while hanging onto Arenas, Butler, Haywood and one of Blatche/McGee, we will have a core to build around for years.

nate, you value Bosh way more than I do. I think McGee's upside makes him too valuable to include in this deal. Make it #5, Young, Jamison + filler and it's a helluva deal. I'm just thinking the minute the Wizards do something like this then McGee hits the weights like Dwight Howard and ends up in the playoffs year after year like Rasheed or Ben Wallace. Keep Javale for now IMO.

2. If Option 1 doesn't pan out, my next favorite option is to trade down with Toronto while dumping Stevenson. I think the players at #9 will be about as good as the players at #5, and by saving Abe $18M over 2 season, it'll increase the likelihood that he'll gamble on a high-priced impact player in the future when an opportunity presents itself. At #9, I'd go for the usual suspects already mentioned in this thread (Curry, Blair, Lawson, Henderson).

I'd bump this to the top.

3. If 1 and 2 above both fail, I'd lean toward drafting Harden. It's an uninspiring choice, but his skillset does mesh well with the ball club, and there's always a chance that a young draft pick can surprise to the upside. As a side benefit, by drafting him at #5 on draft day, it'll increase the likelihood of Option #2 of happening at the last minute when Toronto is on the clock.

Meh.... this has been discussed. (But the right answer is Blair at 5. )

4. My last choice would be to trade out of the draft completely for an uninspiring, high-priced veteran like Mike Miller, Josh Childress or Kirk Hinrich. Those guys would help the team, but they're not good enough to vault us into contention. It'll just hurt our cap, reduce or stockpile of young talent, and in general reduce our options for acquiring talent in the future.

Miller was bad for Minny and I'm not that high on him any more. Same with Capt Kirk. Childress to me finishes better. But then again Mike Miller seems like a Flip Saunders type guy. He rebounds it well like Childress. And Miller hits threes. So, reverse myself on Miller ...

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I have an irrational hope that we get Harden and he's the next Roy or Pierce. What is holding him back from exceeding expectations? He seems to have a common skill set with at least Roy.

Roy finishes with both hands, was noted as a good defender in college, has better natural athletic grace. Lean and strong and coordinated. Open court handle.

Harden was playing in a system that was drafted specifically to suit his strengths while hiding his weaknesses. Has only a left hand (even switching mid-air to finish lefty at the rim). Is sturdy/strong but not especially quick. Hits open shots but doesn't shoot well when guarded outside/off the dribble, doesn't break his man down with his handle, needs a screen to get free. Handles best in a halfcourt set.

But both are smart team players who were knocked in college because they looked to set their teammates up before they tried to get their own. Harden will get open shots in any offense next to Gil/Caron/Jamison and will make the smart pass when the smart shot isn't there. Thick around the middle no telling if he'll gain more bounce as he leans up and works hard. No telling what his defensive capabilities are since the scheme he played in didn't test it-- but he played a similar defensive scheme to the one Flip likes best and he's a good floor leader who will help teach his teammates how to run the match-up zone, tell them where to be when.

Again, for better and for worse he's the anti-Nick Young.

I think it's unfair to compare college stats considering Roy played 4 years, Harden just 2. I couldn't find the numbers but I highly doubt Roy was as effective as Harden as a Sophomore. I see a lot of potential for James to be a deadeye shooter and just a really crafty scorer while still being a solid defender. I said Mitch Richmond before but Pierce/Roy are solid comparisons as well.

spaceman, speaking of playing just 2 years, I think what Blair did was phenomenal over 2 years. He's a full year younger than Javale, too. He's four years younger than Nick and Pecherov.

Blair and Harden both are very young kids who might go either way physically IMO. Both are ballers despite physique.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ok, here's my favorite choice for what to do with #5. I would take a Bosh trade, but I don't see it being feasible to re-sign him right away - and without a guarantee of him signing long-term, you can't give up what it would take to get him. So, basically I just ignore all the Bosh talk. Bosh.

So, this isn't nearly as flashy, but I'd trade 5 and either Blatche or McGee to Philly for Speights and 17. Philly then gets their choice of Harden, Evans, or Curry. At 17, I think one of the J point guards will slip to there - Johnny Flynn, Jrue Holliday, or Jeff Teague. It'd be interesting if we got Holliday at 17 and Green in the 2nd round. We could have a shutdown defensive perimeter game at some point in the future with those 2 and McGuire. Team them up with Haywood and Speights blocking everything up front... wow. Of course, scoring would be an issue - hello Gil, Caron, Tawn, and Young. Too bad we can't have platoon basketball.

Anyway, that's what I'd try to do. Speights is maybe the most under-valued/under-utilized talent in the NBA. And he really doesn't have much of a role n Philly - Blatche or McGee can fill it. And they get the guard of their choice.

Speights would be good and you're absolutely right about him not having a role and being undervalued, Ruz.

I just would rather hold on to McGee and even Blatche because of youth/contract.

How about some like Pecherov+5 for Speights and a Philly second rounder? Seems to me Speight is worth the 5 and this might shave some cap.

(But then again I like Blair at 5.)

[doclinkin]

I have an irrational hope that we get Harden and he's the next Roy or Pierce. What is holding him back from exceeding expectations? He seems to have a common skill set with at least Roy.

Roy finishes with both hands, was noted as a good defender in college, has better natural athletic grace. Lean and strong and coordinated. Open court handle.

Harden was playing in a system that was drafted specifically to suit his strengths while hiding his weaknesses. Has only a left hand (even switching mid-air to finish lefty at the rim). Is sturdy/strong but not especially quick. Hits open shots but doesn't shoot well when guarded outside/off the dribble, doesn't break his man down with his handle, needs a screen to get free. Handles best in a halfcourt set.

But both are smart team players who were knocked in college because they looked to set their teammates up before they tried to get their own. Harden will get open shots in any offense next to Gil/Caron/Jamison and will make the smart pass when the smart shot isn't there. Thick around the middle no telling if he'll gain more bounce as he leans up and works hard. No telling what his defensive capabilities are since the scheme he played in didn't test it-- but he played a similar defensive scheme to the one Flip likes best and he's a good floor leader who will help teach his teammates how to run the match-up zone, tell them where to be when.

Again, for better and for worse he's the anti-Nick Young.

I think it's unfair to compare college stats considering Roy played 4 years, Harden just 2. I couldn't find the numbers but I highly doubt Roy was as effective as Harden as a Sophomore. I see a lot of potential for James to be a deadeye shooter and just a really crafty scorer while still being a solid defender. I said Mitch Richmond before but Pierce/Roy are solid comparisons as well.

Stats? I'm describing their _games_. How they play. That's just observation.

Fair point though that the Senior Brandon Roy had a more well-rounded game than the Sophmore version of B-Roy. And yes James Harden's sophomore year beats out Roy's in every category but two: Harden turns the ball over more and fouls more. Hey, Harden's sophomore year challenges Roy's senior year in most categories.

Harden.
Roy.

Now one could argue that Roy improved every year, while Harden's stats are essentially the exact same or worse compared to his freshman year. So maybe Harden wouldn't develop much over the years, compared to Roy. But never know what the senior Harden would have looked like. Probably pretty impressive.

Harden does show a mature game, looks like 40 yr old guy out there. If he does improve, that would really be something to see. Maybe with the big time trainers he'll startle and surprise people by getting quicker, faster, and laterally reactive, so he won't have to hack so much to keep his man from scoring.

One thing is certain, he will have to adjust though. Much of what I can see of his game doesn't look like it will translate to the NBA. I don't put it past him to make the adjustment, but he'll need to put in the work. But yeah if he developed the way Roy did, he'd be something else. In that case we'd see it as a blessing in disguise to have missed the 2-4 pick. Luck into the right player. DWade style. But I have nothing on which to base that extrapolation.

Funny thing to me is how much he and Gil resemble each other in superficial ways. (Beard, shape of head, etc). Even the cadence of their voices, quick staccato phrases, bursts of words. Gil is more mischievous where Harden has a Droopy Dawg aspect, but still the two could be cousins.

[gesa2]

I would propose a mix of deals already discussed:
1.Trade Butler #5, Stevenson, Critt for Bosh and #9.
2.Draft best PG available at #9. Lawson/Maynor both would be solid backups and better than Critt right away.
(if Toronto balks at trade #1 we live with Critt as our backup PG and let them keep #9)
3.Trade Jamison and James' expiring contract for Vince Carter. Same age, Carter gives 3P shooting, better defense, balances the roster. NJ agrees to cut future payroll and get a versatile big that will work well with their new Center.
If we need to for cap reasons, we can still use Blatche or Young to shed Songaila's salary. But if we don't:

Arenas /Lawson
VC /Young
McGuire / VC/ Young
Bosh / Songaila/ Blatche
Haywood / McGee
This makes us a little younger (Bosh is 3-4 years younger than Caron) and better balanced, but doesn't give up on our developing talent.
Unless it leads to us losing Haywood to be able to resign Bosh...

[gesa2]

On second thought, not sure we'd get away with the Toronto trade. Might need to add in Blatche.

[eltacoman]

If we keep the pick its going to be - James Harden or Stephen Curry 6-5 hoping

they are the most NBA ready
best players avilable at 5th
play at a position of need SG

im hoping we trade it for a vet sg or maybe Amari we are not going to land Bosh thats just another heart breaker so i want even think about that