Ricky Rubio: have you seen him play?

big L · Post #1 » by **big L** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:04 am

So who has seen Ricky Rubio play? The one gold medal game in China is not enough. Come on the Sonics board, tell me that you've seen Ricky Rubio play in more than one game, and evaluate him.

As of now, I'm skeptical of this kid. I'll play devil's advocate and let you guys convince me--great court sense, no athleticism, an underdeveloped body, and awkward mechanics on the jump shot. That sounds like three years away, best case scenario. Now convince me that I'm wrong, and don't even pipe in unless you've seen him in more than one game.

Post #2 » by **wizkid27** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:35 am

I have not seen him play more than the handful of clips and few minutes at the olympic level...

Although you're playing devil's advocate, from what I have seen, I kind of agree. I am by no means saying that I'm right about this, just my very surface level feeling. The oozing comparisons to Nash are great, but without his amazingly consistent shot, Nash wouldn't be able to probe around on offense like he does every game... sure he'd still make great passes and set his teammates up well, but I think when it came down to it, teams would be able to play off of him and keep him from getting in the mix of things where he's so dangerous.

So... is Rubio just Nash without a jumpshot?

tisbee · Post #3 » by **tisbee** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:59 am

"So... is Rubio just Nash without a jumpshot?"
Isn't that a pretty good description of Jason Kidd?

Post #4 » by **wizkid27** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:09 am

No, I wouldn't say so at all. Kidd (especially earlier in his career) was a top 3 defender at his position year in and year out. Kidd is also a VERY different type of passer than Nash. They often get compared, but I would say that Kidd's passing is similar to Andre Miller's in his good years. Whereas Nash is a huge risk taker with the ball, kind of like a great QB that has a ton (maybe too much) confidence in their arm.

Kidd is also one of the best rebounding pure point guards ever.

So I guess then the next question would be... is he closer to Nash without a jumpshot (gunslinger with great sense of offensive flow) or Kidd (great defender, offense manager and rebounder)?

big L · Post #5 » by **big L** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:29 am

^^^^Well put, Wizkid27!

Post #6 » by **slick_watts** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:06 am

the excitement about rubio isn't that he's a gamebreaker now, it's that he's 18 years old and has shown ability far beyond what's expected of players that age especially in europe. any team that drafts rubio is really drafting for 4-5 years down the line, hoping that he can develope a jumper and stronger body to go with what he's already got.

Bizz · Post #7 » by **Bizz** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:56 am

The Thunder are slowlly becoming one of my favoutite teams to watch in the NBA and I think they have a great core to build around. I am from Europe and I came to offer some opinions on Rubio. I have seen him more than ten times mainly in Euroleague and playing for Spanish NT.

In my opinion he would be a great player for Oklahoma. First of all his comparison to Nash is not a good one. First of all he is a good defender. To be more specific from what I saw he is excellent in traping where his long arms really help him. He is also good at taking charges as he can anticipate the play and the movement. His anticipation also helps him with getting into passing lanes. A lot of that could be credited to his high basketball IQ. But he does lack foot speed and this will hurt him in the NBA especially on isolation plays, where super quick PGs will be able tu run by him. He will be bigger and longer than most PGs so he will be able to compensate some. I think he will be considered an above average defender when its all said and done.

On offense he is a supereb, excellent, amazing ect. passer. He is averaging 6+ assist in 22 mins in a league where 3,5 assist makes you top 10. He will be a tromendus pick and roll player as he can find a big man rolling to the basket almost every time. He is also good at spliting the defenders. He is not the fastest player but is fast with the ball in his hands as he is good at changing directions. Also I think some people are underestimating his shooting abillity. Sure he is not exectlly Dirk, but he is solid in Europe wich means good in NBA. Rudy Fernandez wasn't considered a good shooter a few years back and look at him now. The only problem with Rubios shot is that he berly jumps and has a slow relese.

But the thing about him is that he is a basketball player he understands the game and it comes natural to him. That is why I think he could do no worse than Andre Miller in the NBA in my opinion, but has a potential to be much more.

big L · Post #8 » by **big L** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:09 pm

Thanks so much, Bizz. Solid post.

If you guys haven't heard, the new scuttlebutt out there is that Rubio has no desire to play in either Memphis or OK City. I would assume the experiences of Navarro in Memphis may have something to do with that, as well as the whispers of his agent. If this is true, this draft just keeps getting worse and worse!

Edit: This rumor is from hoopshype.com

Bizz · Post #9 » by **Bizz** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:06 pm

The problem with Rubio is his large buyout. That is why his agent wants to get him to a big market where Rubio would get more money for him to cover the buyout. I think Ricky would'nt have a problem with playing in Oklahoma. Its just his agent is trying to get his client the best deal financially. I think Presti is too smart to fall for that. Rubio and his agent know that if he gets drafted by Memphis or Oklahoma that he would have to play there even if he stays in Spain for a year, or his dream of playing in the NBA is over. Sure he could stay in Europe but that is not what he wants. The only problem I see is that Rubio could decide to return to Spain for another season and try next year

wiff · Post #10 » by **wiff** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:34 pm

Under the current CBA (collective bargaining agreement) between the owners and the players, rookie contracts are set to a scale.

The number one pick makes the most then the number two, then 3, then 4 etc.....

So if he falls to say 29th(won't happen just explaining a point) and gets drafted by the Lakers he will make far less than if he were to be drafted 2nd or 3rd to Memphis or OKC.

Personally screw Rubio, screw anyone who is too good to play for a small market. Isn't it a dream to play in the NBA? Or is it just a dream to play for the NBA in New York, LA, Chicago and Miami?

If he doesn't like it have him stay in Spain.

And honestly a slow footed defensive liability with no jump shot who is a good passer sounds a lot like Luke Ridnour. How's Luke doing these days?

I have watched Rubio a little bit. I read an article on him in Slam a couple years back and researched him back then. I have watched a lot of you tube clips and I also watched some of the Olympics. Sure the kid can pass but anyone remember Sarunas Jasikevicius that is who I see him winding up as.

A really good Euro that when he makes it to the states he simply can't create space to get his shot off, and he can't keep anyone in front of him defensively.

A slow release jumper that he barely leaves his feet, really leaves me wanting him more, bleh.....

Post #11 » by **slick_watts** » Fri May 22, 2009 12:02 am

wiff wrote:So if he falls to say 29th(won't happen just explaining a point) and gets drafted by the Lakers he will make far less than if he were to be drafted 2nd or 3rd to Memphis or OKC.

what would likely happen if fegan has his way is that memphis / okc would draft rubio and trade his rights to a larger market. this happened with steve francis awhile back. it might even work because unlike yi jianlian, rubio's got a substantial buyout to negotiate and it wouldn't make sense for him to play in the nba without endorsement $$$.

wiff wrote:Personally screw Rubio, screw anyone who is too good to play for a small market. Isn't it a dream to play in the NBA? Or is it just a dream to play for the NBA in New York, LA, Chicago and Miami?

people forget that for most basketball players the sport is all they've got. it's their livelihood, and 99% of the time they are not going to be making more money doing anything else. fans get derisive when an athlete makes a decision 'for the money', and maybe it's deserved if it's the choice between 9.9 million and 10 million. but in this case, it's a pretty big deal since rubio has to make a large monetary sacrifice to play in the nba, is it really your or any other fan's place to critisize such a decision? i don't think so.

most of this kind of stuff is driven by the agents anyway. the players sign with the agent and it's the agent's job to get the most for the player and has a vested interest in doing so.

wiff wrote:A slow release jumper that he barely leaves his feet, really leaves me wanting him more, bleh.....

[/quote]

rubio's got holes in his game but this one is overstated. manu ginobili does just fine with the set shot..

wiff · Post #12 » by **wiff** » Fri May 22, 2009 12:33 am

slick_watts wrote:what would likely happen if fegan has his way is that memphis / okc would draft rubio and trade his rights to a larger market. this happened with steve francis awhile back. it might even work because unlike yi jianlian, rubio's got a substantial buyout to negotiate and it wouldn't make sense for him to play in the nba without endorsement $$$.

Sure that could happen, has happened before with Francis like you mentioned, Danny Ferry too. However it seems to me the team that is trading the recent draftee typically gets shafted on talent because basically the draftee is holding the team hostage. But there are cases in the team gets a better player. Yi for Jefferson. But how much money is Yi bringing in the the Nets from China? I think he is more the exception than the rule because he has the potential for a huge cash flow market.

wiff wrote:Personally screw Rubio, screw anyone who is too good to play for a small market. Isn't it a dream to play in the NBA? Or is it just a dream to play for the NBA in New York, LA, Chicago and Miami?

slick_watts wrote:people forget that for most basketball players the sport is all they've got. it's their livelihood, and 99% of the time they are not going to be making more money doing anything else. fans get derisive when an athlete makes a decision 'for the money', and maybe it's deserved if it's the choice between 9.9 million and 10 million. but in this case, it's a pretty big deal since rubio has to make a large monetary sacrifice to play in the nba, is it really your or any other fan's place to critisize such a decision? i don't think so.

Slick it is absolutely my place and any other fan to criticize their decisions. We are the fans we essentially pay their salaries. Without fans filling the stadium these guys would just be really really tall dudes out on the world of regular jobs. So yeah if he doesn't like playing for a small market then screw him.

He can fill his obligation to his Euro team and come out next year or the following if it's that big of a gouge on his wallet.

And Slick is it really your place to tell me or any other fan where our place is???? I don't think so!

wiff wrote:A slow release jumper that he barely leaves his feet, really leaves me wanting him more, bleh.....

slick_watts wrote:rubio's got holes in his game but this one is overstated. manu ginobili does just fine with the set shot..

Ginobili can also get to the rack pretty much when ever.

Post #13 » by **slick_watts** » Fri May 22, 2009 12:58 am

wiff wrote:Slick it is absolutely my place and any other fan to criticize their decisions. We are the fans we essentially pay their salaries. Without fans filling the stadium these guys would just be really really tall dudes out on the world of regular jobs. So yeah if he doesn't like playing for a small market then screw him.

He can fill his obligation to his Euro team and come out next year or the following if it's that big of a gouge on his wallet.

And Slick is it really your place to tell me or any other fan where our place is???? I don't think so!

of all fans, it's former sonics fans that should be least vulnerable to this kind of professional sports idealism.

rubio's a talented player whose agent's making a power play to get him more $$$, this is common in the business i don't see why it necessitates personal attacks on rubio's character who (correct me if i'm wrong) hasn't spoken out publically about these rumors himself.

wiff · Post #14 » by **wiff** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:22 am

slick_watts wrote:of all fans, it's former sonics fans that should be least vulnerable to this kind of professional sports idealism.

That's like saying you should only date fat chicks because the one time you dated a 10 she broke your heart.

GopherIt! · Post #15 » by **GopherIt!** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:24 am

Hi Wiff,

It's slightly off topic, but would you be interested in making the Thunders pick in our mock draft? Oklahoma is on the clock and I'm curious to see who you would choose at #25. Hope to hear from you soon! - Goph

TheOGJabroni · Post #16 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:58 pm

Gary Payton without the elite athleticism?

dre_1614 · Post #17 » by **dre_1614** » Fri May 22, 2009 6:05 pm

bosFcelts wrote:Gary Payton without the elite athleticism?

without the athleticism and shot, but better passing skills and better feel for the game.

Post #18 » by **wizkid27** » Fri May 22, 2009 9:25 pm

Payton (like Kidd), was one of the top defenders for YEARS. If Rubio isn't even an above average defender (which is about the best I've heard him described as), I don't see the comparison....

sca · Post #19 » by **sca** » Sun May 24, 2009 9:55 pm

wizkid27 wrote:Payton (like Kidd), was one of the top defenders for YEARS. If Rubio isn't even an above average defender (which is about the best I've heard him described as), I don't see the comparison....

Who said he isn't above average? From where do you get that info really? He is easily one of the best defenders in Europe. Both off and on ball.

draftexpress wrote:A part of his game we've discussed time after time, but continue to take great delight in, is his uncanny knack for getting in the passing lanes. Needless to say, Rubio leads the ACB in this category at 3 steals per-40. One of the most fun parts of seeing Rubio perform is watching him off the ball defensively. As the opposition moves the ball around the court, you can see Rubio anticipating their next move, closing down angles just as a pass is about to be made, pouncing at just the right moment, getting his long arms on the ball to create the deflection, and taking the ball the other way. At one point he had three consecutive steals in three possessions, all of which finished with a basket for his team—highlighting the way he can change the complexion of a game in his own unique way.

draftexpress wrote:Rubio got his hands on every ball even remotely in his area in the game we saw the moment he stepped out on the court—causing deflections and turnovers on a couple of occasions. His knack for getting in the passing lanes is nothing short of amazing, and he’s an absolute nuisance playing defense on the ball.

Post #20 » by **wizkid27** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:02 am

Almost EVERY single scouting report I've read of him, marks him as AT BEST an above average defender... and probably someone who will have fits with the quickness of the NBA guards. As I've said again and again, I have almost no knowledge of his game personally, so I've got to take the view points of the wise people here on RealGM.

Also, with the reports from draft express (probably the most promising I've read)... Larry Hughes (by some joke) was on the all-defensive team a few years ago due to his ridiculous propensity for gambling too often on D and leaving the rest of his team out to dry. Not saying Rubio is in any way similar, just trying to see if this is the case with him as well.

Ultimately I'm just trying to seek why Rubio is considered the best point guard prospect EVER out of Europe. Not denying it in any way at all, just asking critical questions