Doc"s Wish List and Rondo...........

Kefa461 · Post #1 » by **Kefa461** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:24 am

* The wish list:

“That’s a tough one,” said Rivers. “I’d say we have to get a (center) first, and we have to get a small forward. Then there’s the point guard situation.”

* The point guard issue:
The question is how the team backs up Rondo next season, and Rivers won’t rule out bringing back Stephon Marbury.

“He’d be much better” Rivers said of Marbury. “A full training camp would make a big difference for him. First of all this year, Steph needed to play in the NBA again.”

A backup also won’t be enough. Rondo, who tailed off at the end of the Orlando series, continued to have a major weakness exposed.

“What happened to Rajon came from the way (Orlando) played him,” said Rivers. “Orlando made him the player who had to beat them. They took away Ray and Paul and put it on (Rondo).

“The playoffs will always be the toughest part for Rondo, because they’ll always put it on him to make shots. But he’ll grow from it.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/bask ... rticleFull

8-)

BillessuR6 · Post #2 » by **BillessuR6** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:10 am

It will be really interesting to see who we bring in as backup C and SF. I won`t get my hopes up too high after what happened last offseason but Pollards, Moores, Miles won`t cut it! We need players who can actually play!

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #3 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Thu May 21, 2009 12:07 pm

McDyess and Marion on the way guys.... :lol:

aboubata · Post #4 » by **aboubata** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:48 pm

I want steph back. Rondo, steph and Allen for 1 and 2 rotation is good for me. Plus rondo had to play on bad ankle for end of the season and playoffs b/c there was no one to fill in.

If big Baby stays then McDyess makes the most sense for us.

Moon, Barnes (who I wanted last year),... there are a few good SG/SF backups

Scalamental · Post #5 » by **Scalamental** » Thu May 21, 2009 6:20 pm

Big Guys
Juwan Howard, Joe Smith, Chris Anderson, Chris Mihm, Robert Swift, Theo Ratliff, Shelden Williams

Big Smalls
Matt Barnes, Grant Hill, Ron Artest

Smalls
Tyronn Lue. Royal Ivey, Mike James (player option), Lindsey Hunter

Who you want?

SonicYouth34 · Post #6 » by **SonicYouth34** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:26 pm

Ratliff, Barnes or Marion, resigning Baby and resigning Steph would be a success.

Rocky5000 · Post #7 » by **Rocky5000** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:45 pm

I forget who brought up Charlie V, but he would be awesome and help us with matching up with guys like Turkoglu, Lewis, and Odom. He isn't a real 3, a pg, or a center though.

Gortat is likely to be leaving Orlando, but he'll probably command more money than we can offer and he'll be looking for a starter's gig.

humblebum · Post #8 » by **humblebum** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:24 pm

Well, I find it somewhat interesting that Doc stated clearly that the team needs a Center rather than just a big. Gortat and ZaZa are both guys who qualify as Centers vs. simply bigs.

At SF: I will say that Barnes would be a really bad guy to pick up IMO. He really might be one of the dirtiest players and biggest punks in the NBA. Grant Hill is a popular option but his range is very limited and the wheels could fall off at any point for him. I'm sort of interested in Carlos Delfino as a backup option. I always thought he had talent and that he played with energy. Not sure what his status is but I assume that he would be affordable. Overall though I think that the SF pickup needs to have some range on his jumpshot which is why I wouldn't be opposed to someone like Nocioni or Kapono in a trade...

If the Celtics can address both backup C and SF this offseason with legit options I'll give them a pass on maintaining a PG rotation of Rondo, House, Pruitt.

Rocky5000 · Post #9 » by **Rocky5000** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:28 pm

What are we going to do with Pruitt, Walker, and Giddens? Will these guys ever get developed? I see teams like the Spurs and the Magic having great success with guys like George Hill and Courtney Lee, but our young back court players only get blowout time.

We signed Pruitt to a 3 year deal and entering year 3 still haven't figured out if he's a legitimate NBA player. In the preseason he played very well with the starters against NJ and then pretty much disappeared the rest of the way. He did get some sparse playing time with House in the backcourt, and played pretty poorly. Luckily, House exploded playing his natural position and covered Pruitt up to an extent.

Post #10 » by **ParticleMan** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:08 pm

humblebum wrote:Well, I find it somewhat interesting that Doc stated clearly that the team needs a Center rather than just a big. Gortat and ZaZa are both guys who qualify as Centers vs. simply bigs.

At SF: I will say that Barnes would be a really bad guy to pick up IMO. He really might be one of the dirtiest players and biggest punks in the NBA.

you mean like, oh, say, Danny Ainge?

punks always look better when they're on your team. i like Barnes, he's an "instigator" (that's the word for a punk who's on your team). Plus he's a solid defender, athletic, and can hit the 3. he'd come pretty cheap.

Doc may think we need a C but you gotta overpay for true 5's. I think in a backup role we could get by with someone like Dice, much like we got by with PJ (except that PJ was done).

Dice + Barnes would be a very good offseason. Plus re-upping Rondo for somewhat above the MLE. :nod:

Celts17Pride · Post #11 » by **Celts17Pride** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:20 pm

Trade: Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Giddens & future 1st rounder for Boris Diaw
Mid Level: Split between McDyess ($3.5 million) & Marbury ($2.0 million)
Resign: Big Baby (3ys $15.0 million), Powe (1yr $1.0 million)
Vet min: Ratliff

PG - Rondo, Marbury
SG - R. Allen, House, Pruitt
SF - Pierce, Diaw, Walker
PF - Garnett, Davis, Powe
C - Perkins, McDyess, Ratliff

Get ready for Banner 18 !!

Banks2Pierce · Post #12 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Fri May 22, 2009 5:26 pm

Anyone else see something serious in that Rondo quote by Doc. That Rondo will always have trouble in the playoffs...

“The playoffs will always be the toughest part for Rondo, because they’ll always put it on him to make shots. But he’ll grow from it.”

Post #13 » by **Slartibartfast** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:24 am

That quote makes no sense to me B2P. Didn't Rondo just have an enormous coming out party in these playoffs? Sure he went cold against Orlando, but round up a combined .5 rebound and assists and the guy averaged a triple double for 14 games, and throw in 17 points on a weak but not dreadful .417 shooting. His lack of a jumper will be highlighted in the playoffs but his scrappiness and multiple skills also really shine when every possession counts.

Post #14 » by **ParticleMan** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:33 am

In large part we lost the ORL series because SvG figured out in the last 2 games that Rondo's man should just run and double Pierce and completely concede the 18 fter to Rondo. It was truly pathetic. They didn't even try to run out at Rondo. The trouble is Rondo can't finish at the rim against a quality shotblocker against DH; he did good against CHI who had no interior D. It was really disheartening. I agree he brings a lot else to the table but that is a huge flaw. I do think he will get better; even Jason Kidd became a decent outside shooter eventually. But it's going to be a long process.

Al-Haqq · Post #15 » by **Al-Haqq** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:43 am

Banks2Pierce wrote:Anyone else see something serious in that Rondo quote by Doc. That Rondo will always have trouble in the playoffs...

“The playoffs will always be the toughest part for Rondo, because they’ll always put it on him to make shots. But he’ll grow from it.”

Rondo can't shoot. Until he can shoot we're always going to struggle to score because teams will cut off Pierce and Ray and Rondo will have to beat them with a jumper and he can't do it.

That's what Doc is saying. If he ever does develop a jumper then it'll make the C's that much harder to stop.

Post #16 » by **Slartibartfast** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:49 am

But Particle Man, that really wasn't the extent of the problem. It wasn't simply that they didn't defend Rondo, it was that they didn't really leave the paint. They were usually willing to concede jumpers to Baby, Perk and Rondo. Baby was the only one able to have moderate success in that strategy. If we had KG, we could have subbed Perk out and that strategy wouldn't work anymore because Rondo would get in the paint and have a viable big man option to dish to. Rondo's shooting is a major flaw when compounded with one or two other non-shooters/scorer on the floor.

Also the double off Rondo strategy only really worked when Pierce or Allen were iso-ing, a strategy that I think will be on its way out as Rondo improves, KG returns and Paul and Ray age another year.

GuyClinch · Post #17 » by **GuyClinch** » Sun May 24, 2009 2:59 am

That quote makes no sense to me B2P. Didn't Rondo just have an enormous coming out party in these playoffs? Sure he went cold against Orlando, but round up a combined

It makes total sense and its what many posters have been saying all along. Rondo didnt have a coming out party - he was exposed. The blue print of how to bother the Celtics is now out there. Doc knows it. Danny knows it. The fans know it. Your the only one that's confused.

It's pretty simple. Lay off Rondo and try to make him a shot maker and shooter instead of a playmaker and fast break stud. Its not easy to do but its pretty effective. You get to play 5 on 4 basketball..

greenmachine_2849 · Post #18 » by **greenmachine_2849** » Mon May 25, 2009 2:27 am

GuyClinch wrote:
That quote makes no sense to me B2P. Didn't Rondo just have an enormous coming out party in these playoffs? Sure he went cold against Orlando, but round up a combined

It makes total sense and its what many posters have been saying all along. Rondo didnt have a coming out party - he was exposed. The blue print of how to bother the Celtics is now out there. Doc knows it. Danny knows it. The fans know it. Your the only one that's confused.

It's pretty simple. Lay off Rondo and try to make him a shot maker and shooter instead of a playmaker and fast break stud. Its not easy to do but its pretty effective. You get to play 5 on 4 basketball..

It may sound simple, but why did it take two years for anyone to figure it out? I remember during one of the first games ESPN broadcast during the 07-08 season, Jeff Van Gundy said that if he was the other team he would leave Rondo open and make him beat them with the outside shot. Sure it sounds easy on paper, but the book has been out on him for a while and he still has managed to by and large have pretty good success despite that.

And am I the only one who remembers Rondo repeatedly hitting contested outside shots with the buzzer winding down during the playoffs? Sure he still has a lot of room to improve with his shooting, but he has come a long way since his rookie season, and I don't see any reason to think that he won't continue to get better. He'll probably never be a great shooter, but he was over 30% from behind the arc last year, and I think he could get up above 35% on a higher volume of outside shots and not shock too many people. Once he gets up to that percent, teams will start to focus on him off the ball more.

greenmachine_2849 · Post #19 » by **greenmachine_2849** » Mon May 25, 2009 2:38 am

Celts17Pride wrote:Trade: Scalabrine, Tony Allen, Giddens & future 1st rounder for Boris Diaw
Mid Level: Split between McDyess ($3.5 million) & Marbury ($2.0 million)
Resign: Big Baby (3ys $15.0 million), Powe (1yr $1.0 million)
Vet min: Ratliff

PG - Rondo, Marbury
SG - R. Allen, House, Pruitt
SF - Pierce, Diaw, Walker
PF - Garnett, Davis, Powe
C - Perkins, McDyess, Ratliff

Get ready for Banner 18 !!

I like it, although I think it is probably unrealistic to believe that Marbury would take that little of a deal. Remember, this guy sat out 2/3s of the season last year over, what, a million or so difference between what he thought he was owed and what the Knicks were willing to give him? I think it will take AT LEAST the majority of the MLE, if not all of it, to re-sign Marbury. With whatever is left (probably not enough for an Antonio McDyess) sign a veteran back-up center like a Tony Battie (not sure he is available, but just someone of that caliber that can play 10-12 mpg at center behind Perkins and Davis). Instead of Diaw, I would do Scalabrine/T. Allen for James Posey. And re-sign Davis.

PG: Rondo, Marbury
SG: R. Allen, House
SF: Pierce, Posey
PF: Garnett, Davis
C: Perkins, Battie

GuyClinch · Post #20 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon May 25, 2009 4:58 am

It may sound simple, but why did it take two years for anyone to figure it out? I remember during one of the first games ESPN broadcast during the 07-08 season, Jeff Van Gundy said that if he was the other team he would leave Rondo open and make him beat them with the outside shot

Well obviously Jeff talked with his brother. You got to remember it's not easy to DO as I said. The problem is it goes against your basketball instincts. It has to be DRILLED into a team. You naturally try to cover your man. You naturally try to stay up close.

It would be like teaching a pro tennis player to hit nothing but deep topspin lobs against one opponent. Sure they COULD do it - but its not really natural for them.