Brandon Jennings 2008-09 European Season Stats

[KWSN-Men]

Officially, the 2008-09 European season of Brandon Jennings is over. Here are the results:

Italian League:

27 games

17.0 minutes

35.1% FG
20.7% 3 PT FG
64.5% FT

5.5 points
1.6 rebounds
2.2 assists

1.5 steals
2.1 turnovers

Team Result: Eliminated in first round of the Italian playoffs.

Euroleague:

16 games

19.6 minutes

38.7% FG
26.8% 3 PT FG
77.4% FT

7.6 points
1.6 rebounds
1.6 assists

1.2 steals
1.2 turnovers

Team Result: Failed to make the Euroleague playoffs.

It's quite interesting that the NBA so highly covets such a performance.

[miltk]

It's quite interesting that the NBA so highly covets such a performance.

They look at tools not numbers. I'm not in Jennings' corner, but if I'm going to defend Jrue then I have to apply the same logic to BJ.

[KWSN-Men]

It's quite interesting that the NBA so highly covets such a performance.

They look at tools not numbers. I'm not in Jennings' corner, but if I'm going to defend Jrue then I have to apply the same logic to BJ.

And maybe this explains why so many NBA draft picks don't pan out. Jennings' season ended today and I went to look up his numbers to post a subject about it to discuss it here. I knew he was struggling, but I had no idea it was that bad. He really had a terrible, terrible year.

[miltk]

The draft can be a cr@pshoot anyway,,,but if you're going to draft 1dones then it's about an "investment". You invest in youth and potential because if you wait to see if they can put up numbers,,,,YOU'RE TOO LATE.

Like picking a stock.

[ponder276]

He had a terrible season. Then again, he's gone from playing highschool ball to pro Euro ball, which is a very tough transition - the Euro game is totally different (on a related note, fans need to give Euros coming into the NBA more slack, it takes time to adjust, FIBA ball is very different from American ball, especially NBA ball). He definitely has a game better suited to the NBA than to Europe - he's a ball dominant, slashing PG without a good jumper. Slashing is tough in FIBA rules (crowded paint), shooting is necessary (again, because of the crowded paint), and ball dominance and bad shots are more heavily punished in Euro teams (greater emphasis on ball movement and team play than the NBA).

NBA GMs love his tools, but obviously hate his production - this is a very, very weak draft in terms of high end talent, that's the only reason he's a lotto player on mock drafts (last season he would not have been a lotto pick with prospects like Anthony Randolph and Mareese Speights falling to 14th and 16th). Sure picking for upside can be risky, but picking for production with low upside players fails ALL THE TIME as well. With that being said, I think he'll be a bust.

[Star-Lord]

Ricky Rubio's Euroleague stats:

13.2 mpg
2.4 ppg
2.8 apg
1.8 stls
2.4 TOs

30% FG
33.3% 3pt
62.5% FT

[KWSN-Men]

Ricky Rubio's Euroleague stats:

13.2 mpg
2.4 ppg
2.8 apg
1.8 stls
2.4 TOs

30% FG
33.3% 3pt
62.5% FT

And your point is?

[Star-Lord]

I think the point is pretty clear.

[call.me.dude]

I think the point is pretty clear.

That Rubio was hurt and played with one hand only?

[Star-Lord]

It's really funny how hype works.

[sorokii]

Ricky Rubio's Euroleague stats:

13.2 mpg
2.4 ppg
2.8 apg
1.8 stls
2.4 TOs

30% FG
33.3% 3pt
62.5% FT

Well, true but he played less than 5 minutes in 2 games, what did you expect from that, a triple-double? He started the season with an injury in his wrist, so when he got back to his starter spot in the team they were already eliminated from Euroleague. Your point failed, sorry.

[Star-Lord]

Ricky Rubio's Euroleague stats:

13.2 mpg
2.4 ppg
2.8 apg
1.8 stls
2.4 TOs

30% FG
33.3% 3pt
62.5% FT

Well, true but he played less than 5 minutes in 2 games, what did you expect from that, a triple-double? He started the season with an injury in his wrist, so when he got back to his starter spot in the team they were already eliminated from Euroleague. Your point failed, sorry.

Actually, it didn't. Your post helps strengthen it, though.

[hamncheese]

I get it... you can't get a full picture by looking at just the stats. But, as pointed out, Rubio's stats can be 'excused' by injury. Jennings certainly was limited in playing time due to inexperience and, I imagine, adjusting to life abroad. I'm curious - does anyone know if Jennings had any family move out with him to Italy? What kind of support did he have? It seems to me, that from a player development standpoint, he probably wasn't a priority because he was clearly a 1-year signing. Given the leap from high school to professional ball, he wasn't going to be dominant from the get go and would need proper development. I'm just don't think I would put much effort (if I was the team) to give him minutes or a substantial role to develop, knowing he was just there to get to the NBA draft.

[wushui]

It's quite interesting that the NBA so highly covets such a performance.

They look at tools not numbers. I'm not in Jennings' corner, but if I'm going to defend Jrue then I have to apply the same logic to BJ.

And maybe this explains why so many NBA draft picks don't pan out. Jennings' season ended today and I went to look up his numbers to post a subject about it to discuss it here. I knew he was struggling, but I had no idea it was that bad. He really had a terrible, terrible year.

Well obviously, evaluating players by their tools is not a perfect system. Are you suggesting that GMs and scouts should pick players base solely on numbers?

[Star-Lord]

I get it... you can't get a full picture by looking at just the stats. But, as pointed out, Rubio's stats can be 'excused' by injury. Jennings certainly was limited in playing time due to inexperience and, I imagine, adjusting to life abroad. I'm curious - does anyone know if Jennings had any family move out with him to Italy? What kind of support did he have? It seems to me, that from a player development standpoint, he probably wasn't a priority because he was clearly a 1-year signing. Given the leap from high school to professional ball, he wasn't going to be dominant from the get go and would need proper development. I'm just don't think I would put much effort (if I was the team) to give him minutes or a substantial role to develop, knowing he was just there to get to the NBA draft.

Exactly. Add to that the fact that he went to a team that was particularly deep at the guard position.

I know his mom and younger brother went with him. As far as Vitrus Roma's dedication to developing Brandon goes, it's important to recognize the coaching change that took place later in their season. I'm sure coach Repesa supported Brandon, but it's pretty clear helping the kid develop wasn't anywhere near the top of his priority list. That, coupled with the fact that his team wasn't performing at the elite level Roma's fans are used to, led to his firing. Since then, Jennings began seeing much more consistent minutes under the new coach whose name I can't recall at the moment.

It's not about excuses, though. The thing people need to realize is that every prospect in this draft has a question mark, save for one. Folks around here like to give Jennings a hard time for putting up what were really reasonable numbers for a rookie import, while simultaneously fawning over and defending Rubio. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying it's pretty lame to uniformly label a kid a bust, based purely on his stats and youtube clips, while hyping up another for the exact same amount of information.

[SportsGuy8]

Well obviously, evaluating players by their tools is not a perfect system. Are you suggesting that GMs and scouts should pick players base solely on numbers?

It's somewhere in the middle, obviously ...

The problem is that players are mostly picked based on one of these 2 "extremes". Some are picked solely on their potential and on the other side you have players that are picked solely because of their stats and/or achievements ...

Good GMs and scouts are able to see the big picture and consider all the things and evaluate real player's value.

For example, let's look at "euro-busts" . A big majority of them were already "projects with potential" in Europe, nothing more. They barely played, they had no achievements, just this great "potential". Of course a majority of them ended underachieving and/or being "busts".
But, if you look at players that already showed, proved and/or achieved something, you'll have a hard time finding these so-called "busts".

As for Rubio, I still have major doubts about him, I'm not sure he'll be a star in the NBA, but he's already proved quite a bit (a lot more than those "euro-busts"), I would be shocked if he doesn't end up being at least a decent player. (obviously I can also see him being Kidd-type of player, HOF PG, but only time will tell ...)

[KWSN-Men]

I get it... you can't get a full picture by looking at just the stats. But, as pointed out, Rubio's stats can be 'excused' by injury. Jennings certainly was limited in playing time due to inexperience and, I imagine, adjusting to life abroad. I'm curious - does anyone know if Jennings had any family move out with him to Italy? What kind of support did he have? It seems to me, that from a player development standpoint, he probably wasn't a priority because he was clearly a 1-year signing. Given the leap from high school to professional ball, he wasn't going to be dominant from the get go and would need proper development. I'm just don't think I would put much effort (if I was the team) to give him minutes or a substantial role to develop, knowing he was just there to get to the NBA draft.

His mother and brother lived with him in Italy. Also he got plenty of playing time. Even superstars only average about 25 minutes in the Euroleague.

[KWSN-Men]

I get it... you can't get a full picture by looking at just the stats. But, as pointed out, Rubio's stats can be 'excused' by injury. Jennings certainly was limited in playing time due to inexperience and, I imagine, adjusting to life abroad. I'm curious - does anyone know if Jennings had any family move out with him to Italy? What kind of support did he have? It seems to me, that from a player development standpoint, he probably wasn't a priority because he was clearly a 1-year signing. Given the leap from high school to professional ball, he wasn't going to be dominant from the get go and would need proper development. I'm just don't think I would put much effort (if I was the team) to give him minutes or a substantial role to develop, knowing he was just there to get to the NBA draft.

Exactly. Add to that the fact that he went to a team that was particularly deep at the guard position.

I know his mom and younger brother went with him. As far as Vitrus Roma's dedication to developing Brandon goes, it's important to recognize the coaching change that took place later in their season. I'm sure coach Repesa supported Brandon, but it's pretty clear helping the kid develop wasn't anywhere near the top of his priority list. That, coupled with the fact that his team wasn't performing at the elite level Roma's fans are used to, led to his firing. Since then, Jennings began seeing much more consistent minutes under the new coach whose name I can't recall at the moment.

It's not about excuses, though. The thing people need to realize is that every prospect in this draft has a question mark, save for one. Folks around here like to give Jennings a hard time for putting up what were really reasonable numbers for a rookie import, while simultaneously fawning over and defending Rubio. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just saying it's pretty lame to uniformly label a kid a bust, based purely on his stats and youtube clips, while hyping up another for the exact same amount of information.

The only people that fawn over Rubio's level in Europe are the Spanish Homers and the NBA fans that only listen to draftexpress and only watch youtube clips. Any European fan that isn't Spanish will tell you that Rubio would not even log minutes on a big Euroleague club. He's at least 2 years away from being where he should even think about the NBA draft.

Anyway, that doesn't change the fact that he's far and away better this year than Jennings was.

[miltk]

It seems to me, that from a player development standpoint, he probably wasn't a priority because he was clearly a 1-year signing..... I'm just don't think I would put much effort (if I was the team) to give him minutes or a substantial role to develop, knowing he was just there to get to the NBA draft.

And yet SUPPOSEDLY he was given a ton of cash. iirc, anywhere from 300k to 1mil. That's not the way to spend money.

[wushui]

To Sportsguy8

Yea I know, I was just asking a rhetorical question, but I think you are also failing to look at the big picture. I am under the impression that most GMs and scouts are competent people who know how to evaluate talent. If they had it their way, they could easily put together a team of average players from 1-12, but they won't win you a championship: you need all-star caliber guys for that. Obviously, all-stars aren't easy to come by, and the obvious ones are easily snatched. But from time to time, there are little gems that aren't so recognizable, and these are the talent that teams take a chance on. Whether they pan out and become a Dirk Nowitzki is hard to predict of course.