What Should the Wizards Should Do with the 5th Pick?

[closg00]

AFter careful thinking, wizards are never going anywhere until they can get a post player that forces teh defense to double team, otherwise the offense has to work to hard to create a mismatch. The veteran this team needs more than a sg is a post player than can force double teams on offense. Is there a player available capable of this? Zach Randolph, Chris Kaman, Amare, Shaq, David West, Dirk, Gasol, Howard, MIng, Duncan, Brand, Bosh, Aldridge, Hilario, Luis Scola, Odom, Garnett, Okafur, Speights, Boozer, --basically history shows taht any team that has gone deep in the playoffs has a player that forces a double team on offense...basically a bigman that averages more than 15 points a game and plays with his back to basket.
That ideally is what we would want to trade the 5th pick for. No one in our front court forces double teams on offense...caron..nope..jamison..nope...haywood..nope...blatche...nope...mcgee..nope...songalia..nope. I don't see us winning a championship or getting out the second round without this player.

I think if we actually gave the ball to Haywood, Blatche, & McGee in the post, they would begin to draw double-teams. McGee even in his limited minutes this year was beginning to draw help- defenders. Let's see what FLip can do with what we got. But I basically agree. Perhaps there might be some undiscovered big playing overseas that we can bring over.

[AgentOvechkin08]

So, what would it take to entice the clippers?

I will tell you this much if it takes throwing in our 2nd and future 1st(s), I am for it. I will be willing to part with Blatche and possibly Young but no McGee.

We got a make a big move either that way or for a big time SG.

[LyricalRico]

Listing good post players: Dwight, Duncan, Aldridge, etc. is an insult to this board's intelligence. Listing fringe players like Kaman, Speights, and David West insults your own intelligence.

Most posters on this board know their basketball. They take offense when they come here and expect thoughtful banter and find things like "Antawn Jamison is not as good of a ball player as Kevin Garnett. We should trade our #5 pick for a player like Kevin Garnett. We cannot win unless we have a defensive player of the year big man like Kevin Garnett."

[fishercob]

I can see why Etan, but I just don't see them motivated by the prospect of adding Deshawn's 2 year contract.

Blatche, Etan and #5 for Rip and #15 might be more realistic.

Rip's signed for another 4 years. Taking Etan and Deshawn represents a huge financial savings for them and they're moving up into the high lottery. Keep in mind that Seattle didn't get any expirings for Ray Allen -- all they got was a year of salary relief (Wally expired a year earlier than Ray). No way the Wiz should have to throw in Blatche.

You're right about the finances, but the Pistons aren't like Seattle was when they gave up Allen. Detroit has three very good starters in Stuckey/Rip/Prince and $20M to play with to improve the team. With the right moves, they can be a contender again next season. I was probably the first to post #5-for-Rip trade ideas but the more I think about it, I don't see them making any moves like that until they've been able to see what they can get out of free agency.

I have breaking news for everyone: Rodney Stuckey isn't very good. he hasn't cracked a PER of 15 yet in his first two years. Tayshaun is a fabulous role player, but needs scorers/creators around him to be effective. The same can be said for Rip frankly. If they throw big money at Boozer this summer, I think they're a mediocre team. I think it's much more likely (and smarter) to reduce more salary and see what they can come up in the trade market or next summer, as a lot can happen between now and then.

I think Dumars would be very interested in the opportunity to get out of Rip's contract and add a potential building block in the same deal.

[fishercob]

So again, i implore the half-baked posters to expand their thoughts past simple sentences and expand into complex ones - the kind that have two clauses. you present a fact, and then you ELABORATE ON IT.

cakes, I implore you to make use of the ignore button. It makes the experience here a lot more pleasant. Everything you say makes sense, but at some point you have to realize that some people just don't get it.

[sfam]

I think if we actually gave the ball to Haywood, Blatche, & McGee in the post, they would begin to draw double-teams. McGee even in his limited minutes this year was beginning to draw help- defenders. Let's see what FLip can do with what we got. But I basically agree. Perhaps there might be some undiscovered big playing overseas that we can bring over.

As bad as we are on player development, I'm wondering why we didn't take advantage of the D-League? If we weren't planning to play McGee last year many minutes even though we were in no danger of making a playoff run, wouldn't it have been better sending him to the D-League for a bit? Of course the real answer would have been to play him 30-35 minutes a game in the NBA, but clearly that wasn't an option.

And regarding the 5th pick, if we could parlay that into either a Rip-quality SG or a post-up PF, I'd consider it an awesome offseason. Yeah, Bosh would be great - I'm just not seeing this happening right now. Absent a trade, I would prefer the we take the best available PG or SG - we don't have a post-up big man but we're pretty clogged there already. Unfortunately, I don't really have a favorite choice yet, but I wouldn't be broken up if we picked Harden.

[Dat2U]

I have breaking news for everyone: Rodney Stuckey isn't very good. he hasn't cracked a PER of 15 yet in his first two years. Tayshaun is a fabulous role player, but needs scorers/creators around him to be effective. The same can be said for Rip frankly. If they throw big money at Boozer this summer, I think they're a mediocre team. I think it's much more likely (and smarter) to reduce more salary and see what they can come up in the trade market or next summer, as a lot can happen between now and then.

I think Dumars would be very interested in the opportunity to get out of Rip's contract and add a potential building block in the same deal.

Stuckey is stuck (excuse the pun) playing out of position IMO. When I saw him up close in Vegas in '07, I remarked then that he didn't look like a PG to me. To this day he still doesn't look like one. He's got very good handles and is a very good slasher but the court vision & passing instincts aren't really there. He's a scorer first and foremost. He'd be much better as a playmaking SG IMO. In fact, I think he'd be a great complement to a guy like Gil. I thought Stuckey looked real good the times he was able to play with Billups.

As for the other Detroit players, I'm very leery of acquiring any of them considerating the wear & tear of all their playoff runs (6 straight conference finals appearances), the way all of them finished this past season and their history with Flip Saunders. Prince looked awfully old against Cleveland and even though I know he was banged up, I disliked his body language and overall deameanor. His played like a beaten down old man. Rip is coming off a down year, leads the league in technicals and by all accounts was a total jackass towards Flip when he was coach. Sheed is old as dirt and needs to simply retire. He's not worth the trouble anymore.

To me its very Unseldian to try to acquire these type of guys when they all appear to be on their last legs for what appears to be our best trading chip right now. I'd pass on acquiring any of them.

I know we need another veteran to improve the team. But where does it say that we have to do it by the draft? Why not further along in the offseason? Why not prior to trade deadline? I'd rather wait till Amare, Bosh or even a guy like Dirk comes available on the market and then try to package our young guys, whoever we draft or future picks to acquire a legit all-star than make a run at mediocre vets or guys on the wrong side of 30.

Just taking one from the Danny Ainge playbook, why are we looking to give up our best assets for the next Ray Allen when we don't even have our Kevin Garnett yet?

[Ji]

might be time to start thinking about Jordan Hill if he is there--from DExpress

Analysis:

Hill appears to be working very hard, and the staff is pleased with the progress he’s making.

Comparing him with other prospects we’ve evaluated in these types of settings over the years, it’s pretty obvious that Hill started playing basketball later than most, as he’s not a very polished player at this point in time. That’s part of what makes him so intriguing, though—he’s a late-bloomer who still has a ton of room to improve, but was still able to be productive at Arizona this season, to the tune of 18 points and 11 rebounds per game.

The biggest revelation to come out of these workouts was the way Hill was shooting the ball. His stroke looked fairly consistent from 17-18 feet out, and he was even able to knock down a couple of college and NBA range 3’s. He needs to improve the quickness of his release and continue to work on his consistency, but having a solid mid-range jumper in his arsenal will surely help him make the transition to playing quality minutes in the NBA.

Another area of intrigue lies in the basic skills Hill shows facing the basket from the mid-post. Mike Procopio has been working extensively with Hill on his footwork and ability to attack his man off the dribble from 12 to 15 feet—as you can see in the workout video. Considering the quickness advantage he will likely enjoy over most of his matchups, this could develop into a very useful weapon for Hill down the road. He was finishing in a variety of ways, often with a powerful dunk, but also with a series of runners and floaters, trying to improve his touch, particularly with his left hand, which needs work.

While Hill’s frame looks solid, it’s pretty clear that he’ll have to hit the weight room if he’s to be able to effectively compete with some of the more physically developed big men he’ll face in the NBA. He lacks strength in his lower body in particular, and this, coupled with his below average post-moves makes him fairly limited at this point with his back to the basket. This is probably not going to be a major part of his game in the NBA, but considering the direction the league is heading—where quickness, toughness and aggressiveness are far more important than brute force—players like Hill are becoming very much en vogue. It would likely benefit Hill tremendously to play in an up-tempo offense where he can utilize his athleticism in transition, alongside a point guard who is capable of creating scoring opportunities for him.

[Ji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTakBgko ... r_embedded

[nate33]

I have breaking news for everyone: Rodney Stuckey isn't very good. he hasn't cracked a PER of 15 yet in his first two years. Tayshaun is a fabulous role player, but needs scorers/creators around him to be effective. The same can be said for Rip frankly. If they throw big money at Boozer this summer, I think they're a mediocre team. I think it's much more likely (and smarter) to reduce more salary and see what they can come up in the trade market or next summer, as a lot can happen between now and then.

I think Dumars would be very interested in the opportunity to get out of Rip's contract and add a potential building block in the same deal.

Stuckey is stuck (excuse the pun) playing out of position IMO. When I saw him up close in Vegas in '07, I remarked then that he didn't look like a PG to me. To this day he still doesn't look like one. He's got very good handles and is a very good slasher but the court vision & passing instincts aren't really there. He's a scorer first and foremost. He'd be much better as a playmaking SG IMO. In fact, I think he'd be a great complement to a guy like Gil. I thought Stuckey looked real good the times he was able to play with Billups.

As for the other Detroit players, I'm very leery of acquiring any of them considerating the wear & tear of all their playoff runs (6 straight conference finals appearances), the way all of them finished this past season and their history with Flip Saunders. Prince looked awfully old against Cleveland and even though I know he was banged up, I disliked his body language and overall deameanor. His played like a beaten down old man. Rip is coming off a down year, leads the league in technicals and by all accounts was a total jackass towards Flip when he was coach. Sheed is old as dirt and needs to simply retire. He's not worth the trouble anymore.

To me its very Unseldian to try to acquire these type of guys when they all appear to be on their last legs for what appears to be our best trading chip right now. I'd pass on acquiring any of them.

I know we need another veteran to improve the team. But where does it say that we have to do it by the draft? Why not further along in the offseason? Why not prior to trade deadline? I'd rather wait till Amare, Bosh or even a guy like Dirk comes available on the market and then try to package our young guys, whoever we draft or future picks to acquire a legit all-star than make a run at mediocre vets or guys on the wrong side of 30.

Just taking one from the Danny Ainge playbook, why are we looking to give up our best assets for the next Ray Allen when we don't even have our Kevin Garnett yet?

+1

Dat2U nailed it, as usual. I agree with every single word.

It's a bad strategy to overspend on overrated players past their prime. If we want a vet, we need to find somebody on the cheap who may be unheralded because he plays for a bad team or is competing with another good player for the same roster spot. Chicago acquiring Salmons for basically nothing is a good example. Another good example is J.R. Smith a year ago (when Dat2U was advocating we get him).

We've floated a few names of guys that are under the radar but might help our team a lot. Childress probably wouldn't cost too much. Barbosa would be an intriguing fit if we could get him cheap. Hinrich would have been cheap if it weren't for his playoff run. (Now we'd probably have to overpay.) Bellineli, Anthony Morrow, Ronnie Brewer are a few more names.

[mhd]

Barbosa is the best get in terms of age, salary, and position of need.

[pancakes3]

better than 23 yr old, $756,000 anthony morrow?

[LyricalRico]

Barbosa is the best get in terms of age, salary, and position of need.

Have to disagree with this. "Undersized, shoot first SG" is not a position of need for this team IMO. He'd be horrible playing next to Arenas IMO and makes too much to be only used when Gil sits. If Barbosa is the target, we'd be better off continuing to try to develop Nick Young and using our assets elsewhere.

[HeroicKennedy]

Just to clear up some things:

1. Stuckey, when playing alongside Billups, actually looked very lost. Mainly because didn't have the ball in his hands and is not a great off the ball player. Meanwhile, Billups loves to dominate the ball at the top of the key. Stuckey/Hamilton actually looked better than Billups/Stuckey when Chauncey was still on the team. Stuckey will never be a true facilitator, but then again neither is Tony Parker and he's considered one of the best PGs in the league. I see Stuckey being close to an 18-20 plus 5-6 assists rather than 16-17 and 7-8.

2. Rip, regardless of his feelings towards Saunders, had his best season of his career under him. PER always over 18, TS% always over .550. I think his suffering this year is less about him "getting old" and more about the poor system Curry put in place (relying everything on Hamilton's off the ball movement). He's a very well conditioned athlete. He should play at the same level until he's 34-35 years old, at which point his contract will be up (only three years guaranteed).

[fishercob]

1. On Rip: I view him completely differently than I do Prince or Wallace. As HK points out, he's a freakishly conditioned athlete and I'm not worried about him breaking down. His dead-eye shooting isn't going anywhere either. I'm not saying that he'd be my number one target, but bringing him in would undoubtedly improve the team.

2. Stuckey: your assessment of him in Vegas sounds like the exact same thoughts I had when I saw Marcus Banks at a summer league at UMass Boston several years ago. Whatever the reasoning is, through two seasons Stuckey has yet to show he's anything special.

3. Waiting: I have no problem with Ernie waiting to pull the trigger until the deadline if he hasn't found the right move. Frankly, I'd sort of enjoy the collective Ji-led heart attack in these parts if we don't make a trade on draft night.

4. Barbosa: Rico, Barbosa did just fine playing next to and behind Nash. OUr second unit has no reliable scoring. This is important. His production stats are undeniable, and he's a much better value for his contract than someone like Jason Richardson or even Rip -- even if he isn't 6'6.

[LyricalRico]

4. Barbosa: Rico, Barbosa did just fine playing next to and behind Nash. OUr second unit has no reliable scoring. This is important. His production stats are undeniable, and he's a much better value for his contract than someone like Jason Richardson or even Rip -- even if he isn't 6'6.

I take what guys did next to a repeat MVP with a grain of salt. Heck, Diaw had a good year playing center next to Nash but you don't see me trading the #5 for him. Diaw hasn't been the same post-Nash and Barbosa's numbers have declined as well (including his assists, dropping by almost half, which tells me that without D'Antoni's "7 seconds or less offense" he's pretty much a one-trick pony).

I look at Barbosa the same way I look at Jason Terry - novelty players who can put up good numbers in certain situations. Apparently you see Washington as a good situation for a player like that, but I don't. Yes we do more bench scoring, but we've already got an offense first SG who doesn't do anything else on the roster in Nick Young. Why trade the #5 for bench scoring, when we can try to develop the scorer we already have and spend the #5 on something else we need?

And even if we agreed on Barbosa, with all the other needs this team has, it seems a pretty cavalier use of a top 5 pick to use it to improve our bench. Shouldn't we be setting our sights a little higher?

[fishercob]

So by "novelty player" you mean sixth man of the year? Barbosa is as productive as Terry, but is five years younger, makes $3M less a year, and is taller and longer.

I completely discount Nick Young when evaluating Barbosa or any other potential acquisition. The numbers say Nick Young sucks. He makes Stuckey look like Gilbert Arenas.

As to your MVP comment, (a) it's been pretty well demonstrated elsewhere that Nash wasn't deserving of the award, but that aside, I see no reason to penalize Barbosa for playing with good players (b) more importantly, he had far worse numbers during Nash's two MVP seasons than he has in the three seasons since.

I think setting our sites on a guy with a 19+ PER and a MLE contract is setting our sites plenty high -- especially if we get a lower pick back and/or some salary relief in the process. You just can't convince me that adding a player as efficient, explosive and reasonably priced as Barbosa would be a bad thing for the Wiz.

[LyricalRico]

So by "novelty player" you mean sixth man of the year? Barbosa is as productive as Terry, but is five years younger, makes $3M less a year, and is taller and longer.

Hey, Barry Sanders won the rushing title a few times but I still consider him a "novelty player". And Barbosa/Terry have just as many championships as he does - zero. Those guys are fun to watch but I'd prefer to get more than that for a #5 pick. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one and just wait to see what Ernie does.

May the best plan win!

*cough*

mine

*cough*

[fishercob]

Got it. You can have Jud Beuchler, Bill Wennington and all their titles. I'll take good players.

[Pitbull]

Aaaargh... I hate lurking, finally deciding to type out a long reply, and inadvertently hitting the "Forward" button on my keyboard. If you could have only seen what you've missed. It was a post of such perfection... Such incandescent thought-provoking goodness... Chock-full of epic Ji "historical East Coast blizzard" granduer that it would have brought you to tears and inspired you to offer me the naming rights to your first-born ("Seven", in case you were wondering).

Think 1/4 CCJ + 1/3 Nate + 5/12 Dat (adding a slice of Rico as garnish).

Only it's gone now (666th post? Coincidence? I think not!).

I just hope the Wiz don't draft Jordan Hill.