Ray Allen trades where we get him back?

Hemingway · Post #1 » by **Hemingway** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:26 pm

I wonder if there are any possible trades this offseason where we trade Ray to a team that buys him out and sends him back. My first thought (and what I think the general consensus of the board will be) is that even if possible we won't want to spend the money. BUT if such a trade were to happen, right away we wouldn't be paying much more. The trade would bring back someone over valued on a max or near max contract and presumible we would sign Ray back for the min or LLE. This would hurt us in that we would be committed to paying this new person, PP, KG and Rondo(whenever we extend him) but the benefit would be that at some point we would have a big expiring contract. This would seemingly be a way to allow the big three to fade into the twilight in Boston and still be able to add another star to put next to Rondo in a few seasons.

Thoughts? i would love to hear from the board on 2 fronts. 1- What do you think of this as a concept and 2- can you think of any players that teams would do a trade like this with? "I assume we could add cash and/or picks/prospects and/or Tony/Scal in the right deals.

BillessuR6 · Post #2 » by **BillessuR6** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:14 pm

Ray`s expiring contract is the key to this team`s future, IMO. With so many franchises in financial crisis his expiring could get us some great players...the only problem is we probably aren`t in a position ourselves to bring back huge contracts...

And if a trade like that was made I am sure it would be in the interest of both clubs to buy out Ray and for him to return to us...

There have been some big trades made for salary cap purposes in the NBA history, I wouldn`t be surprised if we see some more this offseason...

SonicYouth34 · Post #3 » by **SonicYouth34** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:43 pm

thebirdman wrote:There have been some big trades made for salary cap purposes in the NBA history, I wouldn`t be surprised if we see some more this offseason...

Gasol trade anybody? If we could get Ray back along with a all-star then Danny is God.

Hemingway · Post #4 » by **Hemingway** » Thu May 28, 2009 12:07 am

I doubt we get an al star but what about a guy like Curry or Randolf? Someone with talent but over paid that will eventually be an asset as an expiring. "If danny can find us a prospect or two in the next few drafts to pair with an expiring in a few year we could get Rondo his future star teammate.

floyd · Post #5 » by **floyd** » Thu May 28, 2009 12:59 am

I said to myself when i read this "the only guys we could get would be curry or randolph, but nobody is crazy enough to think that's a good idea." Guess i was wrong.

celt4ever · Post #6 » by **celt4ever** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:47 am

if i stayed with Ray and when the contract ends we tried to sign wade it's possible?

Hemingway · Post #7 » by **Hemingway** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:59 am

floyd wrote:I said to myself when i read this "the only guys we could get would be curry or randolph, but nobody is crazy enough to think that's a good idea." Guess i was wrong.

Because I clearly said it was a good idea. Guess you are wrong.

Ced · Post #8 » by **Ced** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:46 am

Trade Allen and Giddens for Chandler and Posey, then sign Allen once they buy him out.

CT: Perkins/ Chandler/ Moore
PF: Garnett/ Davis/ Powe
SF: Pierce/ Posey/ Walker
SG: Allen/ House/ Allen
PG: Rondo/ Marbury/ Pruitt

The next goal is seeing what they can get for Pruitt, Tony Allen and Scalabrine.

Kefa461 · Post #9 » by **Kefa461** » Thu May 28, 2009 9:55 am

Sounds good if you find a willing partner......

8-)

BillessuR6 · Post #10 » by **BillessuR6** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:56 am

Well, the bobcats owner is trying to sell the franchise but in this economy no one is buying. They will probably have to cut payroll...

Ray+TA+Scal+Giddens+Erden for Okafor+Wallace+Mohammed+Bell

It saves them over 80 million...of course, we couldn`t take that much back but I think there is a deal out there that could help us...

chakdaddy · Post #11 » by **chakdaddy** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:37 pm

Too risky, the NBA was uncomfortable over McDyess returning to the Pistons - it would be WAY too fishy to see this happen with a guy who is still an All-Star.

It wouldn't be worthwhile for a team to cut him - they'd either play him, and they'd also consider trading him cheaply for OTHER expirings. There's nothing they would gain by cutting him; he's enough of a good influence and great player still that he'd still warrant a roster spot.

Tricky Ricky · Post #12 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:38 pm

The only way I would trade Ray Allen is if we were rebuilding

Celts17Pride · Post #13 » by **Celts17Pride** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:53 pm

Tricky Ricky wrote:The only way I would trade Ray Allen is if we were rebuilding

I agree. It seems like alot of people can't wait for the rebuilding to begin. I guess one championship in 23 years is enough. :roll:

BillessuR6 · Post #14 » by **BillessuR6** » Thu May 28, 2009 2:14 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Too risky, the NBA was uncomfortable over McDyess returning to the Pistons - it would be WAY too fishy to see this happen with a guy who is still an All-Star.

It wouldn't be worthwhile for a team to cut him - they'd either play him, and they'd also consider trading him cheaply for OTHER expirings. There's nothing they would gain by cutting him; he's enough of a good influence and great player still that he'd still warrant a roster spot.

Fishy? There is nothing against the rules here.

And they wouldn`t cut him, they would buy him out. They would save a few million more by negotiating a buy out, that is the whole point...

Celts17Pride wrote:I agree. It seems like alot of people can't wait for the rebuilding to begin. I guess one championship in 23 years is enough.

The idea here is that the other team buys Ray out and we resign him. So, we would not lose him, we would just add a great player or two to the team...to contend and not to rebuild...

Golabki · Post #15 » by **Golabki** » Thu May 28, 2009 3:55 pm

The reason this can’t happen is the long term financial fall-out. 2010 you now have 20 million in long-term contracts that you took on in the Ray trade, you have Garnett, Pierce and Perk, which is 40 million. So you have 60 million committed, you still need to resign Ray and Rondo (probably another 20 million between the two), and fill-out the roster, which is 10 million even if you go as cheap as possible. So your 2010/11 total is around 90 million, OR we lose Rondo/Ray, OR we don’t do this type of trade. Clearly the most likely result is that we don’t do this type of trade.

Hemingway · Post #16 » by **Hemingway** » Thu May 28, 2009 4:28 pm

Golabki wrote:The reason this can’t happen is the long term financial fall-out. 2010 you now have 20 million in long-term contracts that you took on in the Ray trade, you have Garnett, Pierce and Perk, which is 40 million. So you have 60 million committed, you still need to resign Ray and Rondo (probably another 20 million between the two), and fill-out the roster, which is 10 million even if you go as cheap as possible. So your 2010/11 total is around 90 million, OR we lose Rondo/Ray, OR we don’t do this type of trade. Clearly the most likely result is that we don’t do this type of trade.

I think you are correct in your rational but wrong in your numbers. If we did a trade like this, say the one for Posey and Chandler, we would get Ray back for one year on the min or LLE. After that we would probably resign him for the MLE, which would put him at 5 mil. So him and Rondo wouldn't be 20 mil unless you think the market value for Rondo starts at near 15 mil. I think Rays next deal will be around the MLE simply because not many teams will be able to offer much more and those who can will be looking for a young star to build upon. Ray is more of a final piece type at this point.

What does stink a bit about a trade like this is that we would be committing a future MLE to Ray preventing us from adding another player next summer. BUT if we do pull off a trade like this we probably cant afford to add 5 mil more in salary anyways.

Another option is to do a trade like this, again for arguments sake lets say the deal for Posey and Chandler, where we take Ray back for the MLE this summer. I forget what he is due to make next year but lets say it is 12 mil. He would get 5 mil back by resigning with us and we can sen up to 3 mil in a trade. So NO would be on the hook for 5 mil to pay ray so he makes the same money he would have made if he wasn't traded. We could also make a deal, albeit under the table, where we agree to pay Ray the MLE for more years then we normally would. Say 5 mil a year with 10% raises for 4 years. 4 year from now the 7 or so mil he wil be making will be at lease a few mil more than he is worth. This might be enough incentive for him to take a buyout from NO for 8 mil. In that case NO essentially dumps Posey and Chandler for nothing.

I think I figured it out

Hemingway · Post #17 » by **Hemingway** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:52 pm

celt4ever wrote:if i stayed with Ray and when the contract ends we tried to sign wade it's possible?

It really would not be possible. To sign Wade outright we would need to be well under the cap, that is not going to happen any time soon. Any sign and trade options would require us to send out Ray, PP, KG or a resigned Rondo as we don't have enough guys making 5-8 mil we could pair up to match salaries.