Can Nick Young Play the Point?

[WizarDynasty]

First off, the guy has decent handles. Are they better than Arenas or Crittenton? No. But can Nick Young bring the ball up court against pressure better than Caron Butler..Hell yes. That's a point guard skill. Is nick young better at guarding point guards than Arenas? Hell yeah--point guard skill. Can Nick young pass off the dribble? Of course..point guard skill. The first glaring info about the wizards is that none of the starters played above the rim last year? Does Blatche play above the rim..nope. Does Jamison Play above the rim..nope. Does Caron play above the rim..nope?
Does Blatche play above the rim? nope.
Very hard to be a playmaker when you have guys that can't finish above the rim.

The starters on this team are unathletic..especially the front court.

Let Nick young play with scottie pippen--(Danny Granger) or a powerforward with a high basketball IQ and good hands and finishing ability like a Chris Bosh and see if Nick is a playmaker or not. A front court player that can catch passes and finish above the rim with authority and not bobble them and see if Nick doesn't show his playmaking ability.
So to repeat, Young has better point guard handles than Butler and stevenson. Nick Young can beat his man off the dribble..only other player that can do that on this team are crittenton and Arenas...Nick Young is quick enough to keep up with point guards...this group includes DMAC, Crittenton, and Arenas on a few occassions.
Can Deshawn Stevenson beat anyone off the dribble?..doubt it. Can Dmac beat anyone off teh dribble? doubt it.
Now, did EJ design plays that put Nick Young in a position to specifically create collapses in the defense and hit kick outs? How could he if the both sg and pg are the same in his offense? Both guards in EJ's offense are shooting guards unless I am missing something. Maybe EJ's offense does have separate role for both pg and sg? I guess I was so caught up in the game that I didn't see specific plays that appears to intentionally be designed for a point guard to make assists passes such as the offensive system deron williams and jerry sloans uses in Utah where Deron normally racks up 15 assists a game.
The Princeton from what I see..i set up to create one on iso plays...and very rarely takes advantage of a point guards interior passing ability.
To many times i saw Jamison and Butler Isolation? Rarely did you see passes that took advantage of a player that can finish above the rim.
My amateur interpretation of the princeton is that it is designed to get Isolation spacing where as most nba offenses are based on creating forcing a double team and then taking advantage of the weakness caused by the double team of a post player.
The princeton wants to get one on one opportunity out on the perimeter where as most successful playoff offenses focuses on forcing a double team from a post players and once that double team occurs, then passes are made to take advantage of the opening. The wizards don't have a player that forces double teams..and it looks NIck not having a big man that can force a double team keeps people from seeing his playmaking ability.

[DaRealHibachi]

But can Nick Young bring the ball up court against pressure better than Caron Butler..Hell yes.

What exactly do you base this on...??? Cause I remember Nick having a difficult time bringing up the ball on occasions, if he ever did...

Went to look at the stats, and they seem to agree... Caron does have more TO's per game (b/c he's the primary ball handler on this team with no PG), but those were more off passes than ball pressure... Nick is the one turning it over more when he's being pressured...

[TheSecretWeapon]

First off, the guy has decent handles. Are they better than Arenas or Crittenton? No. But can Nick Young bring the ball up court against pressure better than Caron Butler..Hell yes. That's a point guard skill.

He does have decent handles -- for a SG. Whether or not he's better than Caron at bringing the ball upcourt against pressure than Caron (a debatable assertion), the point is irrelevant because Caron is a forward, not a guard. Personally, I wouldn't want EITHER player bringing the ball upcourt against pressure. If I was forced to choose between the two, I'd pick Caron because I know he'll take the responsibility seriously. As for Nick, his ball handling is decent, but he does not have PG handles.

Is nick young better at guarding point guards than Arenas? Hell yeah--point guard skill.

Being better than Gil at defending PGs (another debatable assertion) seems like the perfect illustration of damning with faint praise. Gil has been an indifferent defender, and being better than that ain't saying much. Aside from that, how would any of us know what Young can do defensively against PGs? He doesn't defend them except on very rare occassions of if there's a switch.

Can Nick young pass off the dribble? Of course..point guard skill.

Nene can pass off the dribble so Denver should use him at PG, right?

Seriously, making a nice pass off the dribble once every 5th game doesn't mean a guy has a PG skill. Part of being a PG is having a set up your teammates mentality. Nick doesn't have that. Any passing he does -- and I do mean ANY -- happens ONLY because he can't get a shot.

The first glaring info about the wizards is that none of the starters played above the rim last year? Does Blatche play above the rim..nope. Does Jamison Play above the rim..nope. Does Caron play above the rim..nope?
Does Blatche play above the rim? nope.
Very hard to be a playmaker when you have guys that can't finish above the rim.

This is nonsense. A playmaker needs guys who can put the ball in the bucket. Whether they do it from above the rim, next to the rim, or well away from the rim is (not to overuse a word) irrelevant. Chris Paul was a playmaker, but his main targets don't play above the rim (West, Butler, Peja). Deron Williams was a playmaker, but I don't see any "above the rim players" among his teammates. Young's low assist numbers are not because of bad teammates, but because he's not a passer. He's a scorer, who looks to pass only when he can't get a shot.

The starters on this team are unathletic..especially the front court.

Let Nick young play with scottie pippen--(Danny Granger) or a powerforward with a high basketball IQ and good hands and finishing ability like a Chris Bosh and see if Nick is a playmaker or not. A front court player that can catch passes and finish above the rim with authority and not bobble them and see if Nick doesn't show his playmaking ability.

Let Young play with one of those guys and we'd see the same stuff we see from him right now. Jamison is a first-rate finisher around the basket (and everywhere else for that matter). Not in some bizarro world where there's some arbitrary awarding of style points, but in the way that actually matters (the ball going through the hoop). (Steve Nash sure didn't seem to have any problems being a "playmaker" with Jamison.) Butler is a terrific finisher.

We'd see the same stuff from Young even with the guys you cite because it's the way Young thinks the game. It's the way he plays -- it's his game. He did the same stuff at USC. He did the same stuff as a rookie and in his second year as a pro.

So to repeat, Young has better point guard handles than Butler and stevenson.

To repeat -- a SF and a SG. To repeat -- Young does not have PG handles.

Nick Young can beat his man off the dribble..only other player that can do that on this team are crittenton and Arenas...Nick Young is quick enough to keep up with point guards...this group includes DMAC, Crittenton, and Arenas on a few occassions.
Can Deshawn Stevenson beat anyone off the dribble?..doubt it. Can Dmac beat anyone off teh dribble? doubt it.

Now you're bringing up a 6-8 SF/PF? Neither Stevenson nor McGuire should be playing PG either.

Now, did EJ design plays that put Nick Young in a position to specifically create collapses in the defense and hit kick outs? How could he if the both sg and pg are the same in his offense? Both guards in EJ's offense are shooting guards unless I am missing something.

You're definitely missing something. The guards are interchangeable, but even in the Princeton system, there's usually one guy who's more PG than SG. Arenas was always "more PG" than SG, even when he was playing with Larry Hughes. Hughes, by the way, had FAR more PG skills than Young, and he wasn't a PG either. Just to be clear, neither was Jared Jeffries when he started at guard for the Wizards.

Maybe EJ's offense does have separate role for both pg and sg? I guess I was so caught up in the game that I didn't see specific plays that appears to intentionally be designed for a point guard to make assists passes such as the offensive system deron williams and jerry sloans uses in Utah where Deron normally racks up 15 assists a game.

Did you ever watch New Jersey when they ran the same offensive system and Jason Kidd led the league in assists? The Princeton has options for all 5 players. They include an array of penetrate and kick type plays. Especially the version Eddie cooked up, which is based on Princeton principles, but includes a lot of the NBA stuff that's tough to defend (and not used much at the college level).

The Princeton from what I see..i set up to create one on iso plays...and very rarely takes advantage of a point guards interior passing ability.
To many times i saw Jamison and Butler Isolation? Rarely did you see passes that took advantage of a player that can finish above the rim.
My amateur interpretation of the princeton is that it is designed to get Isolation spacing where as most nba offenses are based on creating forcing a double team and then taking advantage of the weakness caused by the double team of a post player.
The princeton wants to get one on one opportunity out on the perimeter where as most successful playoff offenses focuses on forcing a double team from a post players and once that double team occurs, then passes are made to take advantage of the opening. The wizards don't have a player that forces double teams..and it looks NIck not having a big man that can force a double team keeps people from seeing his playmaking ability.

Creating iso spacing is one goal of the Princeton. It depends on the option being called and the personnel on the floor. The Wizards (with a healthy Arenas) had some pretty close to unstoppable one-on-one players, so the offense gravitated in that direction. Young's a pretty good one-on-one player too. It's notable, however, that Arenas managed to get assists (even while posting HUGE scoring totals) in the Princeton offense while passing to the same ground-bound people that won't let Young be a playmaker.

Bottom line -- Young is not some repressed playmaker or PG waiting to happen who's just been held back by an idiot coach and substandard teammates. Maybe he can adjust his game a bit, but is what he is -- a pure scorer as a SG or an undersized SF. Any talk of him at PG is the product of wishful thinking.

[hands11]

Nick Young definitely has point guard skills, and definitely think he his quicker laterally than gil. I think the issue with Jordan's offense is that it didn't allow for a point guard to create opportunities for others.
In jordan's system, a shooting guard and point guard were the same thing. The system didn't allow a player to use his creative basketball IQ when it came to creating passing lanes for others. Nick is already better than larry hughes and as he added strength to his frame...he started to finish when he took it inside. The last piece this team needs is a two way small forward..and a season for Sanders to teach his successful decision making system to the players. I believe sander's has far more experience with creating longterm offensive and defensive system to tap his player's potential than EJ.

Mostly I let you blather. Here though it's like watching an exciteable developmentally-delayed kid running into a Pottery Barn after watching a clown juggle knives. Someone has to step in to keep him from hurting himself. It's a kindness:

Among players who earned 20 minutes or more per game there are only five 2-guards in the league who have a worse assist-to-turnover ratio than Nick Young.

http://tinyurl.com/os5w56

He's in similar piss-poor company in Pure Passer Rating. Dude earns a grand total of 2 assists per 40 minutes of play. And was even worse in college. And your deity 'The Silver Lion' Kevin Broom says the front office guys he spoke with said after 2 years Nick Young still had no idea how to run basic plays in the Princeton system. Put down the Ginsu knives and the Crockpot, you may be a clown someday, but you damnsure can't juggle.

I think you are over reacting to what he wrote. Seems like some people are just looking for an opportunity to pile on WD. What he wrote was simply said that EJs offense didn't have a PG then he compared Nick to Larry with some limited attributes and said Flip has more to offer in teaching him. Seems his glass if half full on Nick. I have no problem with that.

That said, Larry wasn't a PG and neither is NIck. They are SGs. Hopefully Nick becomes a more mature SG who has a more rounded game. The kid has talent. Now he needs someone to help him become a team basketball player who is more then a one trick pony. I saw that starting to happen late in the year. Nick was one of the last players to have his light bulb go one last year. I look forward to seeing what Flip and the gang to do with him.

[hands11]

First off, the guy has decent handles. Are they better than Arenas or Crittenton? No. But can Nick Young bring the ball up court against pressure better than Caron Butler..Hell yes. That's a point guard skill. Is nick young better at guarding point guards than Arenas? Hell yeah--point guard skill. Can Nick young pass off the dribble? Of course..point guard skill. The first glaring info about the wizards is that none of the starters played above the rim last year? Does Blatche play above the rim..nope. Does Jamison Play above the rim..nope. Does Caron play above the rim..nope?
Does Blatche play above the rim? nope.
Very hard to be a playmaker when you have guys that can't finish above the rim.

The starters on this team are unathletic..especially the front court.

Let Nick young play with scottie pippen--(Danny Granger) or a powerforward with a high basketball IQ and good hands and finishing ability like a Chris Bosh and see if Nick is a playmaker or not. A front court player that can catch passes and finish above the rim with authority and not bobble them and see if Nick doesn't show his playmaking ability.
So to repeat, Young has better point guard handles than Butler and stevenson. Nick Young can beat his man off the dribble..only other player that can do that on this team are crittenton and Arenas...Nick Young is quick enough to keep up with point guards...this group includes DMAC, Crittenton, and Arenas on a few occassions.
Can Deshawn Stevenson beat anyone off the dribble?..doubt it. Can Dmac beat anyone off teh dribble? doubt it.
Now, did EJ design plays that put Nick Young in a position to specifically create collapses in the defense and hit kick outs? How could he if the both sg and pg are the same in his offense? Both guards in EJ's offense are shooting guards unless I am missing something. Maybe EJ's offense does have separate role for both pg and sg? I guess I was so caught up in the game that I didn't see specific plays that appears to intentionally be designed for a point guard to make assists passes such as the offensive system deron williams and jerry sloans uses in Utah where Deron normally racks up 15 assists a game.
The Princeton from what I see..i set up to create one on iso plays...and very rarely takes advantage of a point guards interior passing ability.
To many times i saw Jamison and Butler Isolation? Rarely did you see passes that took advantage of a player that can finish above the rim.
My amateur interpretation of the princeton is that it is designed to get Isolation spacing where as most nba offenses are based on creating forcing a double team and then taking advantage of the weakness caused by the double team of a post player.
The princeton wants to get one on one opportunity out on the perimeter where as most successful playoff offenses focuses on forcing a double team from a post players and once that double team occurs, then passes are made to take advantage of the opening. The wizards don't have a player that forces double teams..and it looks NIck not having a big man that can force a double team keeps people from seeing his playmaking ability.

Dude, you took the bait and gave us one of your unformated - to hard to read replies. You should have stopped while you were on more solid footing. If you want most readers to even consider reading a longer post, it needs to be formatted. If not, most will read maybe 2 or 3 lines and stop.

I do assume you write stuff so that it will actually be read. Not sure why you don't get this.

Hey, sometimes I get to writing a post and it gets to long. When I read it before posting I realize that while I may have made a good point, it's more them most will read so I edit it down to a more basic point. That said, sometimes I do post the longer more complete posts. I just try to limit how often I do it. And when I do, I format it so it is easy for people read. People will scan the post by each paragraph so more of it will get read, even if they don't decide to read all of it.

Something you may want to consider.