Important post- 09-10 bench

[ddb]

Ainge has a lot of work this offseason and I truely believe he needs to take a good long look at his options. What I mean by that is He CANNOT fall in love with Baby, Powe, Walker, etc. With Rondo, Pierce, Allen, KG, and Perk back what AINGE really needs to focus on is bringing in long, Athletic players who can play multiple positions and hit open J's. those are the players that will thrive on this team and help us win # 18. If Ainge could re-do the 08 offseason I GUARANTEE he would have put effort into signing Pietrus. Pietrus-type players is what Danny needs to focus on this off-season.

My wish list- Charlie V- can play and defend all 3 front court positions. Can hit the open shot and extends out to 3-pt range. If he'd be willing to be our 6th man he would be a great fit.

J. Moon- I don't think Moon will break the bank. He'd be a nice 2/3 option for us. Athletic, long, defends and hits the open 3.

Marion- He's going to want to start. But if he's not getting offers maybe KG, Pierce, and Allen can convince him to sign a short-term deal and make a run at a title with us. He'd win 6th man of the year honors hands down.

Grant Hill- Scares me a little bit because of age and health, but when healthy is a nice quarterback type point forward who can take a lot of pressure off Pierce, Allen, Rondo.

ALSO, I hope Danny doesn't get carried away with the backup PG position. ALL we need is a reliable backup who can play 10-15 mins behind Rondo and run the offense efficiently.
Ainge can also look at S & T including Big Baby. Packaging 2 or 3 of the following players (Baby, Giddens, Walker, Pruitt, T. Allen) can get us back something in return.

The ideal bench IMO:

J. Vaughn- He's NOT washup up. He's played with a big 3 and he's won a title. He can get the ball up court, defend, and get the ball in the right persons hands for 10-15 mins.

E. House- No matter what ANYONE says I love what he brings to this team. 3pt shooting and energy.

S. Marion- 6th man of the year.

Big Baby- resigning him would be good.

Walker, Scal, CENTER.

[humblebum]

I agree with the premise of adding length and shooting ability but I disagree a bit on your assessments of players.

I'm not a big fan of Charlie V. I think McDyess fits in much better with the physical and mentally tough makeup of the Celtics roster. Plus I think he can help defend the pick and roll moreso than a guy like Sheed.

I've always liked Vaughn but I don't know how much he has in the tank or whether or not he can bring the spacing we need from our backup PG. I think Flip Murray would be a good fit skill wise for the Celtics but I'm not sure about his mental toughness/chemistry.

I'm not personally a fan of House. Defensively he's exploitable and offensively a solid defensive team eliminates him completely. In the regular season however he helps you win games which is definitely of value. Ultimately I think it's clear that the Celtics can't go into the playoffs depending on House to contribute. I wouldn't count on this going into the season but I hope that Gabe can elevate his game to become a reliable backup PG this season.

I think Marion and Hill would help but the first is probably unrealistic and the second has question marks + he has very limited range. From a chemistry standpoint he'd fit right in though.

And with Davis it really just comes down to what kind of offers he gets from other teams. Ideally the Celtics pay Davis somewhere between $3-3.5 million per season for max 3 seasons. Anything beyond that and you might have to let him walk, with the caveat of being able to sign a McDyess as a replacement influencing the negotiations.

Other than that the Celtics are going to have to get some considerable contributions and improvements from 3-4 of Rondo, Pruitt, Walker, Perkins.

[ddb]

Good post. And I agree with a lot of your points. Why don't we do this.....Let's list players and potential combo's of players that could make up our bench next season. Not everything will work out perfectly in terms of $, but we might as well toy around with it.

[campybatman]

Since when does Ainge fall in love with a young player. He didn't with Al Jefferson, Gomes or D. West. If it's advantageous for him to move a young talent in favor of a veteran, he'll make a trade. So, I don't think Ainge will fall in love over Davis. You can't... If you're savvy, you move Davis whenever his stock is at its highest. Now might be that time. That's why I support the opinion that Ainge must explore all avenues involving a sign-and-trade with Davis. Because, right now, Davis is your best trading chip, albeit not a great one since he's a restricted free agent.

I support your interest in Vaughn. I mentioned my support for his addition in another thread. I'm not thrilled about Moon, and I've no interest in Marion. I feel hesitant about Villanueva as he was in a contract year. And we all know what tends to happen after players get a new contract who don't have a history of having productive seasons in their career. He's a talented player but I wouldn't trust him to product after receiving a new contract. You would've to really believe in him that his game will continue to evolve to take the chance on him, if you're Ainge. And G. Hill desires to remain with Phoenix. Not to mention he and Shaq are good friends.

My ideal bench for Boston after signings and trades this off-season.

F Garnett, F Pierce, C Perkins, G Rondo and G Allen


6. G House - He won't opt out so you'll have him for another season. I prefer it if he would exercise his option.

7. F/C Leon Powe - It's likely he could miss the first half of next season. Still, the in good faith signing applies here, I think. He's a blue collar player that every good team should've as a reserve.

8. G Anthony Parker - An ideal veteran addition. A replacement at guard for Tony. A more than suitable backup to Ray.

9. F/C Antonio McDyess - An ideal veteran addition. A replacement at forward for in the event that Powe isn't resigned. Perhaps, you've them both on your team.

10. F Travis Outlaw or James Jones - A wishful thinking choice here. Both are cheap alternatives to accommodate the need for acquiring a long small forward with potential to add on defense. Jones is a solid perimeter shooter to boot.

11. G Jacque Vaughn - An ideal veteran addition. A savvy guard with playoff experience and with playing with All-Star players.

12. C/F Chris Andersen - A wishful thinking choice here. An athletic big man who's game (hustle play, running the floor, rebounding and blocking shots) would allow him to find his niche in Boston quite easily. An underrated player.

13. G Tyronn Lue, Dahntay Jones or Damon Jones - A few veterans to add decent depth at point guard or shooting guard.


I'm leaving two roster spots open, you only must have twelve active players. Meaning Powe begins next season on the PUP list. That's thirteen players.

[Havlicek17]

The two most pressing needs for the Celts seem to me to be a G/F to give PP and Ray some rest throughout the year and a long athletic big off the bench. Here are my wish lists:

G/F

1.) Brandon Bass (FA)
2.) Paul Millsap (RFA)
3.) Tervor Ariza (FA)
4.) Anthony Parker (FA)
5.) Carl Landry ($6-$7Mil/yr. Need to trade Scal and TA)

PF/C

1.) Chris Anderson (FA)
2.) Sheed (FA)
3.) Charlie V (RFA)
4.) Camby (trade)
5.) Ryan Hollins (RFA)

I'd use the LLE to get a veteran PG.

[Rocky5000]

What do people like so much about Anthony Parker? I think he's pretty awful. He's a starting shooting guard, who only scores 10 ppg. The raptors also get burned badly whenever facing a team with great wing players, which makes me think his defense can't be all that great.

[SonicYouth34]

What do people like so much about Anthony Parker? I think he's pretty awful. He's a starting shooting guard, who only scores 10 ppg. The raptors also get burned badly whenever facing a team with great wing players, which makes me think his defense can't be all that great.

He used to be a good defender and can knock down the triple.

[humblebum]

I'm pretty much right along with you on this one bonsai, I really like Anthony Parker and Antonio McDyess as additions to play off the bench. Both are solid shooters, athletes, and are legit height-length wise. The key thing is that they're professional ballers, which to me = solid, consistent production, regardless of matchups, guys who just go out and get it every night. These guys both fit that description.

Re: Davis. I'd love to have him back. That's first. But the reality is that money and luxury tax is significant. The owners weren't exactly doing backflips over 4 years of James Posey last offseason. Davis needs to fit the Celtics budget, let's just be honest. $3-3.5 over 3-4 years or $4 for 2 years. That's all that's going to be reasonable based on what Davis can provide you with. With that said, Davis holds the keys right now as far as how good he wants to become. And whether or not he pushes himself hard enough to reach his peak potential. He could end up being REALLY good, but it would seem to be more of outlier potential, at least in my often humble opinion.

The other point on Davis, which does and kind of doesn't relate to him, is the status of Leon Powe. If ever there was a time to buy low, it's on Powe. Does he have the work ethic, the character, the heart, etc. to come back from this injury? Hell yes he does. You make a very small investment in Leon and you could end up with a very solid return on your investment. You could straight up steal Leon for the next 2-3 years at somewhere between $1.5-2 million per season. I definitely resign Leon with a potential plus being him returning somewhere before playoff time next season, depending on the success of the surgery and a steady rehab, obviously.

With House, Parker, Walker, Scal, and Dyess you have some toughness and savvy. Lots of shooters and spacing. This is very good for Rondo, who let's face it, we're going to have to look to build around past KG, Paul, and Ray. Complement Rondo with shooters and you disguise much of his current main deficiency, the lack of shooting ability/consistency.

I don't think you could ultimately live with just Scal and Dyess up front, this is assuming we lose Davis. So if Davis bolts for bigger money you're going to have to get yourself a respectable 4th big, not Mikki Moore. This player could possibly come from the draft, via trade, or through free agency. But you need to get this player. Personally I'd love another legit shot blocker. That's what I feel the Celtics have missed at times. That Lebron, Josh Smith, Howard type shotblocker where they just own the ball once it's up in the air. I'm thinking Tyson Chandler, Samuel Dalembert or hey what the heck Shawn Marion (whom I'm not in love with as a player, but if he gets back to being himself he could help cover a Rashard Lewis or a Lebron.

Fantasy type idea here (and I know the salaries don't match) but how about an S&T of Glen Davis for Marion. Sign McDyess to a 3 year deal at $3-3.5 million. Anthony Parker for the rest of the MLE for two seasons (ultimately the Celtics might have to settle with less at this position, which would be a real shame, either that or you get a diamond in the rough type like Bogans, and he shoots the three ball and defends solid for you. With the additions of Marion, McDyess and Parker I personally can live House, Allen, Walker, Pruitt. Heck maybe you get something solid out of Walker and/or Pruitt-Allen. And to complete the dream scenario you sign Chuck Hayes for the minimum.

That'd give you:

Rondo/*Pierce
Ray/House/Walker or Allen
Pierce/Parker/Marion/Walker or Allen
KG/McDyess/Marion
Perkins/McDyess/Hayes

*Pierce as de facto PG with Eddie sliding off the ball.

That team is tough, physical, and littered with solid defensive players solid-professional shooters. And you up your team athleticism greatly by playing Walker, Marion and Rondo (not to mention Allen, McDyess and Hayes who are all solid athletes).

I love that roster. It will take some minute slicing and dicing at your 3-4 spots with Pierce, Marion, KG, and Dyess (+ Walker) at those spots. But nonetheless that's a Championship roster.

[Al-Haqq]

Lol ... some of you guys are dreaming too much.

McDyess? Marion? Ariza? Chris Anderson? Paul Millsap? Brandon Bass? Travis Outlaw?

WHAT?!!

Lol ... I wish!

I would love the above mentioned players, but I think it's safe to say that we're not even close to getting any of them. Period!

Realistic options are like: Jacque Vaughn, Rasho ... etc.

[campybatman]

I'm pretty much right along with you on this one bonsai, I really like Anthony Parker and Antonio McDyess as additions to play off the bench. Both are solid shooters, athletes, and are legit height-length wise. The key thing is that they're professional ballers, which to me = solid, consistent production, regardless of matchups, guys who just go out and get it every night. These guys both fit that description.

The other point on Davis, which does and kind of doesn't relate to him, is the status of Leon Powe. If ever there was a time to buy low, it's on Powe. Does he have the work ethic, the character, the heart, etc. to come back from this injury? Hell yes he does. You make a very small investment in Leon and you could end up with a very solid return on your investment. You could straight up steal Leon for the next 2-3 years at somewhere between $1.5-2 million per season. I definitely resign Leon with a potential plus being him returning somewhere before playoff time next season, depending on the success of the surgery and a steady rehab, obviously.

Good points, I concur.

In my opinion, my ideal roster was thought out and took into consideration of being realistic options. It's tough to make either heads or tails on possible trade scenarios. However, you can only try. No one here is saying that these additions will definitely come to fruition. They're merely a fan's suggestions. Admittedly, targeting both A. Parker and Andersen are unrealistic in the sense that both of these teams would've a legitimate argument to retain them. But, McDyess I feel could be a realistic option as oppose to R. Wallace. I think McDyess realized that he might have made an error in judgment with returning to Detroit and not even seriously considering Boston or Denver. That is, he was dead set on rejoining the Pistons. I'm saying he was wrong, the Nuggets wanted him to stay after he was traded to them in the Iverson deal.

I like having shooters and savvy veteran players who each are capable of scoring in A. Parker and House (I prefer to have him opt out, but with him, he's still an expiring contract) behind Allen. The idea is to surround Rondo with weapons, long range shooters. You sure up your interior defense by giving Perkins support with McDyess, Andersen and eventually a healthy Powe. Tell me how these additions don't dramatically improve your team from this season?

And having Vaughn and James Jones (a player Ainge liked) and either Dahntay Jones or Damon Jones will strengthen your bench. Vaughn is a veteran who I'd an interest in for the past few years. While Dahntay has become a better player since he was here. He has become a defensive minded player in Denver. And James Jones or Damon Jones add yet more firepower from a perimeter standpoint.

[Havlicek17]

Lol ... some of you guys are dreaming too much.

McDyess? Marion? Ariza? Chris Anderson? Paul Millsap? Brandon Bass? Travis Outlaw?

WHAT?!!

Lol ... I wish!

I would love the above mentioned players, but I think it's safe to say that we're not even close to getting any of them. Period!

Realistic options are like: Jacque Vaughn, Rasho ... etc.

I disagree.

If you assume the Celtics are willing to stay at last years salary, we have $5.8 Mil to spend. We also have Scal and TA with expiring contracts worth $5.9 Mil and if you add in Pruit, $6.6 Mil in expirings. I'm expecting to have House back next year. That's enough flexibility to get the players being discussed.

Guys like Landry, and Bass for example are young and still have great upside, but they are not starters on their respective teams and are currently on teams that will not be looking to resign them for huge money, due to their own cap situations, etc. Both of these guys averaged around 20 min, and less than 10 pt a game. They were better than Davis (>50% FG) in the regular season, but Baby tore it up in the playoffs. I made a mistake earlier, HHype shows Landry already signed for the next three years at $3 Mil a year, and I don't think Bass will get a full MLE offer as a FA.

If Boozer, Korver, and Okur stay, Utah has some serious cap issues and Millsap is coming off his rookie contract of $797K in 08/09. They are at $71-$72 Mil with 10 players signed, not including Millsap, and they are not a championship caliber team.

None of the players mentioned are unattainable.

[Al-Haqq]

Just because they're "attainable" it doesn't mean it'll happen.

[BakersDozen]

I think McDyess is a signing that just makes so much sense not to happen. Lets look at the facts. 1. We need another veteran. 2. we need another backup big 3. McDyess himself said he was very close to signing with the Celtics. Not to mention there is a strong chance we lose Big Baby which makes a McDyess signing even more important. After that I think we would have to look at bargain bin players. As much as I'd like to get him we are not getting Marion,Artest,or Travis Outlaw. Maybe DA tries to go after Desmond Mason.... who knows.

[sunshinekids99]

Here would be my thinking of a bench.

C-Perkins
PF-Garnett
SF- Pierce
SG- Allen
PG- Rondo

SG- Eddie House- I think he picks up the option to remain with the Celtics. I have no problems with Eddie coming back either.

PF/C- Leon Powe- This would be a solid move for the team to bring back Powe. High energy guy that should come cheap.

SF/SG Trevor Ariza- Not sure what he would cost for the C's to bring him in. I don't think he's a full MLE guy. 4 Million or so? Good defender and shows he can hit an open shot.

SF- Bill Walker- I like the upside in Walker. I think he can develop into a solid player.

C- Rasho Nesterovic- Good size pretty, good shot blocker. Can hit an open shot. Would offer him the LLE. Has played well with a talent power foward as well, plus finally gets a legit center to backup Perk.

PF/C- Sheldon Williams or Marcus Haislip (overseas FA)- Would provide some size off the bench as a 12th man.

PG- Luke Ridnour- Sign and Trade with BBD. Ridnour provides a nice backup point guard that can also hit an outside shot. Would greatly help the second unit IMO.

SF- Brian Scalabrine- Would hang onto Vealchop until later in the season for a possible trade.

PG- Gabe Pruitt- Another guy who could be moved at the middle of the season.

SF- JR Giddens- Enjoy the D-League.

Also would trade Tony Allen for a second round pick if possible or a bag of basketballs.

With the second round draft pick, go Euro and keep him over there.

[Fencer reregistered]

Pietrus was never an option. He wanted to go to a team where he could realistically get starter's minutes. And he would probably have had them if he'd stayed healthy.

I think to get adequate depth it is necessary to both use the MLE and also resign Big Baby at market rates. Sign and trade is not much of an option with him.

Assuming House, Scal, and Baby are back, I see the same needs everybody else does -- backup PG who maybe can play some SG, backup SF who maybe can play some SG, and backup C.

Judging by the recent NYT article, Birdman is very settled in in Denver. Too bad. Old Man McDyess, who obviously won't be staying in Detroit, seems like the best option for the C slot.

I don't know what I think about the 3 and 1. I'm currently pessimistic about Marbury returning for the role he'd get. And I don't have an opinion as to whether Walker can step up.

[BakersDozen]

Drew Gooden could be an option for the mle.... the only plus he has over McDyess though IMO is that he is younger.

[Jammer]

Here would be my thinking of a bench.

C-Perkins
PF-Garnett
SF- Pierce
SG- Allen
PG- Rondo

SG- Eddie House- I think he picks up the option to remain with the Celtics. I have no problems with Eddie coming back either.
Helps win games during the regular season for sure. Team plays good with him around.

PF/C- Leon Powe- This would be a solid move for the team to bring back Powe. High energy guy that should come cheap.
To retain right to match any contract offer Celtcs must offer 1 year contract for $1,030,189, which they obviously will.

SF/SG Trevor Ariza- Not sure what he would cost for the C's to bring him in. I don't think he's a full MLE guy. 4 Million or so? Good defender and shows he can hit an open shot.
He absolutely will get the full MLE. Could get as much as $7 million per year, but since he wants to stay in LA, they will probably get him for less.

SF- Bill Walker- I like the upside in Walker. I think he can develop into a solid player.
As an undersized SF or too slow SG ???

C- Rasho Nesterovic- Good size pretty, good shot blocker. Can hit an open shot. Would offer him the LLE. Has played well with a talent power foward as well, plus finally gets a legit center to backup Perk.
I'd love him. He definately will get the full MLE, and because centers are so scare, could get as much as $7 million per. Ain't life crazy? He's the guy who I can see the Celtics parting with Scalabrine and Tony Allen in a sign and trade for.

PF/C- Sheldon Williams or Marcus Haislip (overseas FA)- Would provide some size off the bench as a 12th man.
God no. These guys are awful. Not bad. Awful.

PG- Luke Ridnour- Sign and Trade with BBD. Ridnour provides a nice backup point guard that can also hit an outside shot. Would greatly help the second unit IMO.
The Celtics number one priority is a center. Doc said it. The second priority is a full sized SF. Doc said it. There won't be any money left. However, that's why I think the Celtics finally take their head out of the sand and sign and trade for the center.

SF- Brian Scalabrine- Would hang onto Vealchop until later in the season for a possible trade. Hope not. He's their ticket to a full MLE or more center, along with Tony Allen, of course.

PG- Gabe Pruitt- Another guy who could be moved at the middle of the season.
Or sooner.

SF- JR Giddens- Enjoy the D-League.
Maybe not.

Also would trade Tony Allen for a second round pick if possible or a bag of basketballs.
In this years weak draft class Tony Allen could go for a mid-twenties or even late teens first rounder. It's that weak at SG's who can defend.

With the second round draft pick, go Euro and keep him over there.
Or just sell the damn thing.

[sunshinekids99]

Jammer you might be right about the prices of the players. I however wouldn't give Ariza the full MLE and I see no way that Rasho is a 7 million dollar player. While I like Rasho as a backup center there is no way I like him that much.

As far as Walker goes, I could see him as an energy type player as a backup 3. Now to Giddens, do you actually think he can provide anything to this team next season?

[BakersDozen]

absolutely no chance Rasho gets 7 mill. Maybe half that.

[campybatman]

Rather than revise my bench, I'll list the top three UFA players I believe are realistic options, and my top three choices of players I'll like to see traded for.

Guard - Anthony Parker, Desmond Mason and Jacque Vaughn
Forward - Antonio McDyess, Joe Smith and Linas Kleiza
Center - Chris Andersen, Melvin Ely and Robert Swift

Trade - Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw and Raja Bell

However, if the bench remains as Scalabrine, House, Tony, Pruitt, Walker and Giddens. And then, Powe and Davis are resigned somehow. Then the only new addition is possibly McDyess and maybe someone else really cheap.