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OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered

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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#101 » by Bulls_Fan » Sat May 30, 2009 10:43 pm

Ctownbulls wrote:
Bulls_Fan wrote:
tenritsu wrote:I can't help but think that the administrators or whoever just told Rose it was gonna be ok and not to worry about it, and Rose being the quiet person he is just nodded along.

It's definitely a stain, but I think it's more of an indictment on the system than the players. Rose should be getting a little flack, but I highly doubt that he was the one that instigated the cheating.


That might explain the grade change, however, clearly Rose looked the other way in the best case scenario.

Still, the most damning indictment is having another person take his SAT test.


Yes, it is pretty bad that he had somebody else take the SAT test for him. There is no way to take away what he did but....

If David Stern and the NBA had not implemented the new draft eligibility rules (I think your senior HS class must be one year removed from graduation to enter) then Derrick probably never would have taken the ACT or SAT. There is a pretty decent chance he would of gone straight to the NBA in order to get a contract and the endorsement money. Ever since Derrick entered HS, basketball became more then just a game, it became a business. In his mind, and the minds of those in his inner circle, the SAT was just an obstacle to Derrick getting to the biggest stage to showcase his talents and ultimately make the most money. So, since Derrick was basically forced to go to college, instead of making big money in the pros, he had to let his investment (his skills) appreciate as much as possible. The way to do this is go to a big time school that has a chance to go deep in the tournament and play on the biggest of stages. Derrick did that, he had to cheat on his SAT's to do so but he basically did what he had to do. Who knows how much money Derrick would have lost or what draft pick he would of been if he went to a school that got knocked out of the tourney first/second round or didn't make it at all. Of-course, I'm sure some people are saying to themselves, "What about Beasley, he didn't go to a top school and didn't have tournament success and yet he still got drafted top 2." That is true, but a PG who is known for his leadership skills needs players around him in order to showcase his talents to the fullest.

I don't want anyone to think that I condone cheating in order to gain an advantage in life, but lets be realistic, there are people at every level of life that do things in order to gain an advantage. That is why the definition of 'ethics' is so harshly debated.

Is it unethical to cheat? Yes.

Is it unethical to have someone else take a test for you in order for you to get into a better school that will ultimately lead to you making more money and creating a long-term supply of economical security to your unfortunate family? Probably, but the more variables you add to the situation the harder it is to judge a person.


I might agree with you giving the NBA some blame if Rose had no other options other than college bball. He could have gone to a high profile Juco school. Even better, he could have followed the path that Brandon Jennings did and go to Europe for a year. Jennings will be a lotto pick for sure and played against men for a year...on top of it, he got paid.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#102 » by Ctownbulls » Sat May 30, 2009 11:02 pm

Bulls_Fan wrote:I might agree with you giving the NBA some blame if Rose had no other options other than college bball. He could have gone to a high profile Juco school. Even better, he could have followed the path that Brandon Jennings did and go to Europe for a year. Jennings will be a lotto pick for sure and played against men for a year...on top of it, he got paid.


Yes, that is true. I wasn't really trying to shed a bright light on the situation. I was simply playing devil's advocate. I agree, there were other options (although not too appealing) but I doubt Derrick's decisions were single minded. People were definitely telling him what to do.

One of the people that comes out looking really bad in all of this is Reggie Rose (I think that is his brothers name). The guy publicizes HIMSELF all the time for being an excellent role model and guiding Derrick throughout his life. Meanwhile, this guy was receiving perks from Memphis and obviously knew of the infractions Derrick was committing. Reggie seems to be in it all for the money and not for the best interest of Derrick. I definitely look at that article written the other day (the one where Reggie discussed the marketing power or Derrick) very differently.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#103 » by Ctownbulls » Sat May 30, 2009 11:04 pm

And when will Derrick make a public statement already. I have to agree with Mariotti (tisk tisk), Derrick should be speaking and letting the people know what happened and apologizing. It seems as if he is trying to ride the wave out and hoping that the allegations will be dismissed and forgotten, which they won't.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#104 » by TB#1 » Sat May 30, 2009 11:18 pm

Has anyone heard what Rose's high school GPA was (factoring altered and unaltered grade)?

The NCAA GPA/SAT sliding scale is found on page two of this document:

http://www.3c4a.org/CounselorResourceIn ... -18-08.pdf

I'm assuming that the D that was turned into a C was done so in order to allow Rose to be academically eligible for acceptance into a Division I program, so he probably squeaked in with a 2.0 or a 2.1 or so.

That means he needed to score somewhere around a combined 1000 or 1010 (Verbal + Math only) SAT in order to qualify. That isn't exactly an impressive score, but I would expect it to be pretty far out of reach for a guy who had to have his academic record fudged in order for him to pull a 2.0 average at Simeon.

For all the bally-hoo about Reggie and the rest of the family keeping a strict, close eye on young Derrick, apparently checking his homework folder wasn't part of the routine. With the sliding scale, if he had anywhere close to a decent grade point average, he wouldn't have had to pull an SAT score better than any given turnip could do. Even an average grade point average sure would have helped him. I wonder if Reggie made him take a Kaplan prep course before the test? Hmm. Doubtful.


On the other hand, when a kid has bottom of the barrel grades and you tell him he has to score 1,000 or better on the SAT -- you are either setting him up to fail or inviting him to cheat. NCAA, there is no other conclusion. Hypocrisy rears its ugly head again.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#105 » by TechMansoor » Sat May 30, 2009 11:28 pm

TB#1 wrote:
Bulls_Fan wrote:
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Derrick needs to face this head on, admit to poor decision making and simply not taking high school seriously (And maybe Reggie needs to fall on his sword as well here for baby brother). Speak of maturing now as a young adult and regretting the choices he made as a teenager and set about proving your character from this day on. You'll be surprised at how forgiving people can be of a genuine apology. Nothing our American media loves more than a redemption story. This story isn't going away by ignoring it though.


You can't mature and be a man if you let your brother "fall on the sword".


It seems like Reggie has his own sword to fall on and if he earned them, he needs to take his own lumps.


The only word out of his camp was a statement by attorney Daniel E. Reidy, who said Rose cooperated in an investigation by Memphis that uncovered "no wrongdoing on his part."

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/05/30/rose ... index.html
You know how Zach Efron fired Adam Davies then hired by Ari Gold, and finally asked for something with leather and 4 wheels?

http://tinyurl.com/DroseTurn

It's time for Derrick Rose to do the same! - LOL Max Only!
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#106 » by TB#1 » Sat May 30, 2009 11:36 pm

TechMansoor wrote:
The only word out of his camp was a statement by attorney Daniel E. Reidy, who said Rose cooperated in an investigation by Memphis that uncovered "no wrongdoing on his part."

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/05/30/rose ... index.html




From the above article:

"He was a smart student since he's been in grammar school," Danyell Freeman said. "I don't think he needs [anybody] to take tests for him. He's been getting good grades. He's always been smart in school so why would he need somebody to take the SAT for him?"

Added Keke Shelby, who has known Rose as long as she can remember: "They want to see him back out here, doing nothing, but he was always a smart student so why try to take that away from him?"


These comments from his friends are interesting. If it is true that he got "good grades" and also true that someone took the SAT for him, whoever sat apparently wasn't sharp enough to get the 800 to 850-ish combined score needed to match his GPA on the sliding scale. (NCAA eligibility requirements linked on the bottom of the last page). Geesh, if you are going to get a ringer at least get a sharp ringer.

As to the "no wrongdoing" quote...yeah. Derrick's lawyer's public statement. THAT puts everything to rest, for sure.

I'm still waiting to hear more about the alleged illicit payoffs to Brother Reggie.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#107 » by theagent » Sun May 31, 2009 12:42 am

TB: Of course his lawyer is gonna give a lawyer answer. Plus how credible is an "investigation" by Memphis???

The comments by his friends are bs because you have to question their definition or interpretation of what is "smart"? Hate to say it but some of those CPS schools may have a top student but put that same student in a place like Payton, Northside Prep or one of the top 10 hs in Chicago and they might have some problems.

DRose's brother might want to get ready and carry all the weight for this because their gonna dig and find a bunch of stuff.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#108 » by JordansBulls » Sun May 31, 2009 4:49 am

BrooklynBulls wrote:Jesus Christ, how dumb IS this kid?



Well KG got a 15 on ACT test that is why he went pro because he couldn't get into a well known college with that score.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#109 » by BrooklynBulls » Sun May 31, 2009 5:00 am

JordansBulls wrote:
BrooklynBulls wrote:Jesus Christ, how dumb IS this kid?



Well KG got a 15 on ACT test that is why he went pro because he couldn't get into a well known college with that score.


I already know exactly how dumb KG is. He's a smart basketball player, a stupid...everything else. Let's hope Rose is the same. Or...let's just have him be smart everywhere, and hope the grades were a result of his intelligence not being challenged in school. :D
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#110 » by MAQ » Sun May 31, 2009 5:02 am

mr.ankle wrote:I wonder what took the NCAA so long to find out that he was cheating . They really can not do to him now .

well i am of the belief that the NCAA knew all along if it really did happen...and they had on intentions whatsoever of doing anything about it as long as derrick was a player of the NCAA
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#111 » by lou4gehrig » Sun May 31, 2009 8:19 am

I think anyone passing judgment on Rose's level of intelligence on this board should qualify their statements with their own SAT / ACT scores, education level and job, so we can all better gauge the value of said opinion.

Anybody equating SAT / ACT scores to actual intelligence in an ignorant simpleton, IMO There are a lot of of socioeconomic criteria involved in how prepared anybody is for standardized testing. A lot of those factors (schools, teachers, parents) are out of child's control until they reach a certain age.

I think a prime example of this is Magic Johnson, whom a lot of people isn't too bright based on how he interviews and speaks. Yet, the guy is CEO of a $700M+ company.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#112 » by lou4gehrig » Sun May 31, 2009 8:34 am

Wingy wrote:Disappointing, yes. Forgivable? Of course.

During the playoffs, after a Derrick interview I would think.....'wow, he really doesn't seem that bright...at all'..


That's exactly what I think to myself when I read 99% of what's posted on RealGM honestly.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#113 » by jax98 » Sun May 31, 2009 10:36 am

lou4gehrig wrote:
Wingy wrote:Disappointing, yes. Forgivable? Of course.

During the playoffs, after a Derrick interview I would think.....'wow, he really doesn't seem that bright...at all'..


That's exactly what I think to myself when I read 99% of what's posted on RealGM honestly.


So you stick around for that exclusive 1%, I assume?
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#114 » by TB#1 » Sun May 31, 2009 1:56 pm

theagent wrote:TB: Of course his lawyer is gonna give a lawyer answer. Plus how credible is an "investigation" by Memphis???



Seriously...was that sarcasm so subtle that it required green font? Come on, man. Get with the program.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#115 » by TB#1 » Sun May 31, 2009 2:11 pm

lou4gehrig wrote:I think anyone passing judgment on Rose's level of intelligence on this board should qualify their statements with their own SAT / ACT scores, education level and job, so we can all better gauge the value of said opinion.


Not the point, even remotely. This is about Rose's inability to meet even the significantly lowered standards for NCAA college admission qualification. I went to college to get a college degree and to qualify for law school. Derrick didn't. He went to play ball. But if you are going to make a kid go to college before becoming eligible to play at the highest level professionally, there should be a point, and that point should be a requirement of an enforceable expectation of some academic success in high school and enough retention of that success to have some middling success on standardized tests. But its all smoke and mirrors.


Anybody equating SAT / ACT scores to actual intelligence in an ignorant simpleton, IMO There are a lot of of socioeconomic criteria involved in how prepared anybody is for standardized testing. A lot of those factors (schools, teachers, parents) are out of child's control until they reach a certain age.


Test scores measure what they measure. I know good test takers who never amounted to much and high school dropouts who succeeded in business. I also know many, many socioeconomic victims who rose above it, fared well in school and succeeded. Again, doesn't matter. As I mentioned above, for all the talk of Rose's close support group that kept him out of trouble and kept his focus on basketball, apparently nobody paid any attention to ensuring his academic eligibility.

I think a prime example of this is Magic Johnson, whom a lot of people isn't too bright based on how he interviews and speaks. Yet, the guy is CEO of a $700M+ company.


Magic is a smart guy, but he did come across as a dim bulb because of his lack of command of the English language. I've noticed this season that Johnson must have spent a good deal of time with speech coaches -- the kind of coaches that teach newscasters to speak with a region-neutral accent. The improvement of his speech is almost immeasurable.




NOTE: I originally posted my education, scores, licenses and jobs as requested, but deleted the same. No sense in starting an "unzip and measure the big boys" war. Again, its not the point.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#116 » by Wingy » Sun May 31, 2009 2:49 pm

lou4gehrig wrote:
Wingy wrote:Disappointing, yes. Forgivable? Of course.

During the playoffs, after a Derrick interview I would think.....'wow, he really doesn't seem that bright...at all'..


That's exactly what I think to myself when I read 99% of what's posted on RealGM honestly.


So, does it make it untrue? Derrick is one of the worst interviewers I've ever seen in over 20+ years of watching the NBA. These stories about Memphis and H.S. seem to backup what everyone sees on the surface after DRose speaks publicly. We can point that out and it's not some sort of final judgment saying he's a bad human being for not excelling in academia, or some definitive statement that he doesn't have any other non-basketball related gifts.

We'll never know about the situation as a whole. I'm not going to indict the kid over his academic intelligence....as you mentioned above, there are lot of factors involved in that and you cut out the part of my original post (that appears directly after the piece you quoted) stating that the classroom is but a single measure of a person's ability. Rose has displayed plenty of other forms of intelligence by the grace and humility he handles himself with while being thrust into the spotlight at such a young age.

He is worshiped on this board. It's ok to look at his faults as well. It's ok to point out that he's not Shane Battier in the classroom. He has plenty of other good things going for himself.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#117 » by TechMansoor » Sun May 31, 2009 10:00 pm

Wingy wrote:
lou4gehrig wrote:
Wingy wrote:Disappointing, yes. Forgivable? Of course.

During the playoffs, after a Derrick interview I would think.....'wow, he really doesn't seem that bright...at all'..


That's exactly what I think to myself when I read 99% of what's posted on RealGM honestly.


So, does it make it untrue? Derrick is one of the worst interviewers I've ever seen in over 20+ years of watching the NBA. These stories about Memphis and H.S. seem to backup what everyone sees on the surface after DRose speaks publicly. We can point that out and it's not some sort of final judgment saying he's a bad human being for not excelling in academia, or some definitive statement that he doesn't have any other non-basketball related gifts.

We'll never know about the situation as a whole. I'm not going to indict the kid over his academic intelligence....as you mentioned above, there are lot of factors involved in that and you cut out the part of my original post (that appears directly after the piece you quoted) stating that the classroom is but a single measure of a person's ability. Rose has displayed plenty of other forms of intelligence by the grace and humility he handles himself with while being thrust into the spotlight at such a young age.

He is worshiped on this board. It's ok to look at his faults as well. It's ok to point out that he's not Shane Battier in the classroom. He has plenty of other good things going for himself.


One of the best most honest and sincere posts I've ever read....
You know how Zach Efron fired Adam Davies then hired by Ari Gold, and finally asked for something with leather and 4 wheels?

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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#118 » by Angry Jimmy » Mon Jun 1, 2009 1:38 am

Does cheating on a test or getting bad grades automatically mean you're stupid? No, it doesn't.

However, it does reflect very poorly one's character.

To me, this is more of an integrity issue over an intelligence one.

Maybe that means more to me than others on this board though.


Let me ask this...

If the report was "Michael Beasley had his grades doctored and had someone take the SAT for him" would the responses in this thread be the same?

I highly doubt it.
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#119 » by rose2tyrus » Mon Jun 1, 2009 6:19 am

I'm sick and tired of these morons saying he is a fraud for the Chicago Bulls and that he should be kicked out of the league.

**** is getting ridiculous :nonono:
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Re: OT - Derrick Rose's high school grades altered 

Post#120 » by MAQ » Mon Jun 1, 2009 6:27 pm

rose2tyrus wrote:I'm sick and tired of these morons saying he is a fraud for the Chicago Bulls and that he should be kicked out of the league.

**** is getting ridiculous :nonono:

but, who's said that?
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