#15 + Amir

[shrink]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Wor ... -2nd-3241/

DET appears to want to add to its 2009 cap space, giving any team who's willing to pick up Amir Johnson's $3.6 mil contract the #15.

Would we want to do this? We only have about $3 mil right now, but I don't think it'd be hard to get enough cap space. Simply trading the #28 for an early 2nd, or selling it would remove the cap hold giving us enough raw cap space. This would mean we also have to renounce the MLE.

I'd hope to use the #15 to move up, but I have to think a guy like BJ Mullins would still be there. Personally, I'd like to use the pick to move up. Anyway, Amir is an expiring, so he doesn't affect our 2010 cap space, and I've liked the little I've seen of him anyway.

Thoughts?

[Foye]

If the only thing we have to do for this is to sell/trade #28 then we should do this...

#6, #15 and #18 sounds good and Amir Johnson is also a solid player...

[john2jer]

I do it pretty easily. Amir's actually got a little bit of talent. If we could trade the #28 for an early 2nd, yes, do it and take a Euro to stash. Otherwise just sell the pick. I really want someone like Casspi, though.

#15 packaged with #18 to move up would be fantastic. Maybe something around #15, #18, and Madsen for Ridnour and #10? Is that doable? How would we have to alter it?

Could this be a three team trade?

Det gives: Amir and #15
Det receives: #28

Mil gives: Ridnour and #10
Mil receives: #15, #18, and Madsen

Min gives: #18, #28, and Madsen
Min receives: Ridnour, Amir, and #10

First glance the numbers don't work, but I'm sure it's possible to adjust them with other expirings. Maybe it has to be an after the draft trade when cap holds are established?

Allows us to take maybe Holiday and DeRozan? This is more rambling than concrete ideas. Hoping to get shrink's brain rolling into something magically delicious.

[collin_k41]

I think I'd give that a go but we'd have to make SURE we would package stuff to trade up in the draft. The problem is I don't know what team would want the 15 and 18 in this "weak" draft. I think we'd be better off keeping one of the two and offering the other + Gomes or Smith etc. to move up.

Is our goal to have 2010 cap space or 2009?? What ever happened to trying to nab Marvin Williams from Atlanta? If Rubio were to drop to #5 we could make a trade involving Miller and other stuff then pick Rubio then ideally Harden. Then Sign Marvin...to have this:

PG: Rubio
SG: Harden
SF: Williams
PF: Love
C: Jefferson

Pipe dream I know but that lineup looks SWEET!

I guess I got off-topic but if we could do this then I pass on amir...lol

[john2jer]

Marvin Williams is only gettable through a sign and trade and we'd need Miller and picks to do that.

[collin_k41]

Bahh, OK then I sign off on the Amir + 15 trade. It'd at least give us a ton more options.

[Winter Wonder]

Milwaukee would settle for less than the two picks. I think that is over paying, J2J. Otherwise, not sure on the cap holds the two picks would have vs the #10 they have. If they had their choice of picks, they may be more inclined for the Utah pick next year due to their cap (and potentially next year's draft be stronger, suposedly).

As to Amir pick up, since he is an expiring, I would do so. Otherwise, I wouldn't. Isn't Amir ANOTHER PF? It would definitely be a short term type of move. Or am I thinking of a different Detroit player? Regardless. Trade the #28 and move back into the 2nd round for a Euro stash. Cassipi is nice, I am starting to really like the PG Llull though.

[john2jer]

I was doing more thinking out loud, rather than concrete ideas. Just hoping to get discussion going. It might be over-paying.

Amir Johnson is a PF, but he's expiring, so the benefit of the deal is the #15 pick. Although Amir Johnson does have talent, so he might just be another positive expiring that we trade at the deadline as part of a package for a good player.

[ChazzleDazzle]

Renouncing the MLE is the bigger deal to me. I feel like we could get a better player with that this year than we could get at #15 (and certainly better than Amir). As has been said previously, we would have to have a #18 and #15 for an earlier pick in place before making this happen, since I think #18+#28+MLE>#18+#15+Amir

[Winter Wonder]

I can live with that, J2J, just not the overpaying.

I do think that we have to consolidate some of the assets though. Thing is, it doesn't have to be the draft picks we consolidate as it could be players such as Smith, etc. Picks are easier to do so with, but there are going to be some interesting prospects at our pick ranges. Maybe, trading a combination of both works best, but MN is going to have to work on asset consolidation. We have too much out there and a great potential to lose out on value by having to cut or whatever a potential rotation type player.

First, a Ridnour + #10 trade should happen. There is just too much value out there not to take advantage of it.

Second, a trade of C. Smith (+ 28?) should happen as well. Yi was a discussed option and other parts could be sent out for other fillers. Here is a consolidation attempt and I think MN could come out plus on value/potential. Yi probably wouldn't be long term in MN (you never know though), but he brings a unique talent set for his size and an influx of foreign exposure and potential revenue.

Third, not sure how I feel on the Washington trades. Etan isn't the center I would want long term (and I realize he wouldn't be, but one gets tired watching the stop gap players and wouldn't mind seeing the youngster that iw being groomed. Blah on Stevenson or Songalia). I kinda want to keep Miller around I think. He brings so much to the table that I want to give him another year here at least. Maybe with Brewer's return and dependent upon who was available at #5 (Thabeet slides or something) I could be swayed to trade him, otherwise, I rather Miller was here than not. I am thinking he will be a better player for us this year given the more time with the players and "settling in" a bit, if you will.

Finally, again, this Amir trade would be too much value not to work on and get done, and it gives more assets that can be moved. MN just has to figure out what they want to move all these assets for and they have to or we end up with 18 players and having to cut three or so and losing out on potential value, aka star talent, we could have traded for.

That's about all I can do for now for discussion work and idea sharing. Was a fun read over on the Chicago board until you gone and got the thread all locked up. I have to say, some very good and smart posters over there. Wasn't expecting that, not that I didn't think they would be smart, but that they would actually see and post to both sides and argue with there, shall we say, less open-minded/far sighted boardmates. Still, was a good read. Way to screw it up!

[revprodeji]

Amir+15 for space is interesting. My only concern is if it would prevent us from doing something else.

15 is decent value. if our plan is to either a.) combine assets for a big fish or b.) bpa as many youngins as possible. then this trade adds value.

Johnson is very mobile/athletic with good hands. Incredibly raw and likely is a project.

Very good EFG .595.and a .608 TS Is much more of a 4 then a 5. Well, his offense is much better at the 5, but is defense is horrible as a 5. But his net production is neutral at the 4, and a +5 at the 5. So perhaps he could play the 5?

Someone compared him to a bigger, more raw Warrick.

hmm, interesting idea. Similar to the philly/carney one last year.

[john2jer]

.

[revprodeji]

Then there is no need to call him it.

[Esohny]

Could we pick up 15 and Amir, then use some combination of the 18, Smith, Gomes, Miller, Foye, and other expirings in a sign & trade for Marvin Williams?

I'd rather pay Williams a fair amount and get a young, solid-or-better-in-all-aspects SF with lots of remaining upside than pay 28 year old Hinrich 50% more than he's worth and he won't get any better. That allows more playing time for the young PG we draft, too.

[B Calrissian]

hmm, interesting idea. Similar to the philly/carney one last year.

That's what I was thinking too. Although this would be even better. Well the pick might not be as good as the Utah one since this is a "weak" draft but adding a young athletic big man would be very nice.

[shrink]

Nice post WW. Those are the deals that interest me the most as well. You saved me some time posting.

Only thing I have left to add is that the following deal seems like it would be a beneficial use of the #15.

TOR GETS: #15 + #18
MIN GETS: #9

TOR has the roster spots to fill (depending on the results of a potential Bosh trade), and there are some interesting prospects in the 11-20 range.

We get a little bit better prospect.

[the_bruce]

Easy yes from me if all we need to do is ditch the caphold on #28 to get it down.

Smith + 28 for Yi?
15 + amir

6 (evans/harden)

TOR GETS: #15 + #18
MIN GETS: #9

Then you kids can start doing 6+9 for rubio stuff.

I'd probably prefer the 6 15 18

[john2jer]

I prefer to keep the 6/9 combo because I could see Evans or Holiday walking into the gym with DeRozan on the first day of practice and say, "Let's show these old farts how we run this game", then they start running and dunking on everyone. It would be like when the Fab Five showed up at Michigan and just took over on day one.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I prefer to keep the 6/9 combo because I could see Evans or Holiday walking into the gym with DeRozan on the first day of practice and say, "Let's show these old farts how we run this game", then they start running and dunking on everyone. It would be like when the Fab Five showed up at Michigan and just took over on day one.

I don't think they'd take over the Wolves. Remember that scene at the beginning of Kickboxer w/ Jean Claude where Van Damme's brother is gonna fight Tong Po and he's warming up in his lockerroom before the fight and Van Damme hears *thud* *thud* and he tracks down the origin of the noise to find Tong Po in the other room kicking a concrete beam, and JCVD is like "noooooo!" in his mind. Then Tong Po paralyzes Brother Van Damme and original Van Damme is like "NOOOOOO!!!!" except out loud this time. That brings us to Derozan's first day of practice and he walks in the lockerroom and hear's *thud* *thud* and a little chill goes up his spine as he tracks down Kevin Love throwing 100 lb medicine balls off the wall and offensive rebounding them with fury. Lets just say Derozan would know who's team it was as urine streams down his leg.

[moss_is_1]

I prefer to keep the 6/9 combo because I could see Evans or Holiday walking into the gym with DeRozan on the first day of practice and say, "Let's show these old farts how we run this game", then they start running and dunking on everyone. It would be like when the Fab Five showed up at Michigan and just took over on day one.

I don't think they'd take over the Wolves. Remember that scene at the beginning of Kickboxer w/ Jean Claude where Van Damme's brother is gonna fight Tong Po and he's warming up in his lockerroom before the fight and Van Damme hears *thud* *thud* and he tracks down the origin of the noise to find Tong Po in the other room kicking a concrete beam, and JCVD is like "noooooo!" in his mind. Then Tong Po paralyzes Brother Van Damme and original Van Damme is like "NOOOOOO!!!!" except out loud this time. That brings us to Derozan's first day of practice and he walks in the lockerroom and hear's *thud* *thud* and a little chill goes up his spine as he tracks down Kevin Love throwing 100 lb medicine balls off the wall and offensive rebounding them with fury. Lets just say Derozan would know who's team it was as urine streams down his leg.

nice