Which way should Hawks go ?

[tbhawksfan]

The Hawks are a team with a semi-star in JJ at close to 28, three young (22-23), very good players in MW, Horf and Smoove. They let a fourth go in Childress. Then they have a decent role player in Mo, a frustrated, but possibly talented young PG in Law and that's about it. We could re-sign Bibby or Zaza. bibby is an shooting PG with good TO numbers and horrendous D and poor assists, Zaza a competent back up C.

They have Andersen, a mature scoring, perimeter type C in Europe, Chil in Europe and picks #19 and #47. Oh, we also have a finally valuable Speedy (as an expiring).

Most think they need to upgrade starting C and PG. We are entering a crossroads. Contracts coming up, players taking shape and a young team to continue to mold towards progress.

There have been proposals to simply upgrade the back up C position, move Bibby and bring in a younger, more assist and D orientated PG. This seems doable.

MW is a RFA. Re-sign him? Let him play out the QO and make a less protected decision at the end of next season?

JJ will also be a RFA newt season. As our best player, do we break the bank and pay him as a #1 option?

It seems like every trade of a core player meets resistance, but I'm coming to the conclusion that if we want a championship, we need to continue the re-building mode a bit more and trade our MVP, best player, JJ.

Most of our core is very young and we have an opportunity to move JJ at the top of his career and bring in a couple of pieces that would add to our core and possibly raise our championship potential in coming years.

I've been working on some trades along these lines, soon to be added.

What do you guys think? JJ ? Draft if we trade JJ, vision for the team in say two, three seasons.

Woodson will be gone

[rak1974]

I say no to trading JJ. we would not have a go to scorer. They are hard to come by especially with his size and streath. You don't trade JJ unless you got Lebron, Kobe, coming back..... and we all know that ain't happening. I say just give JJ some more scorers.. Like I have been listing in earlier post.

Matt Barnes, Charlie Villanueva, Nate Robinson, or maybe even Luther Head. All are free agents and shouldn't be too hard to get well maybe Nate Robinson. And add someone that can protected the paint someone besides Josh Smith. Like Channing Frye , Johan Petro, or Kwame Brown maybe even Steven Hunter. They don't have to be all stars just able to rebound and keep the others guys off the glass.

[ATL DirtyBird]

^^ JJ has proven he is not a number 1 guy. We need another star to compliment. WE dont need Lebron or Kobe. We need a all star or somewhere close to that.

[theatlfan]

Interesting thoughts. Build around the youth we have or make a run around the vets? I guess the 1st ? is are the vets good enough to actually make a run? Maybe, maybe not, can't say. Never seen them with a deep enough team to establish an opinion. I do know the team always gets better with even a pittance of more depth. The next ? is are the young players good enough together to make a run? Much harder ? to answer, because unlike vets, you'll never have enough to form an opinion of this (well, at least while they're still young). But I do know that I see the 3 good young players that we've got, Smith, Marvin, and Horford, are at their best when playing PF and at the very least we'd have to redistribute that somewhat to get a better team to build on.

As far as trading JJ, I dunno. If we went with youth, then we'd almost have to. We wouldn't get a star in return and it'd be a minor miracle to even get a lotto pick for him (who would have 1 - even potentially - and determine that they're better off with a SG pushing 30 than building with youth?). Of the teams that I could see making a run, DEN makes the most sense to me. 'Melo had some off games in the Western Conference Finals and JJ could make teams pay for stopping him. They have an extra '10 pick from CHA and a young SG prospect in JR Smith. A deal based off those 2 + DEN '11 pick would get me to bite if we did decide to go with youth. But would DEN? They already have Dahntay Jones and JR Smith forming an adequate Offense/Defense combo @ SG and they shown a proclivity for avoiding the salary cap at all cost (the Camby trade). There are other teams that could show interest in JJ (ORL also jumps to mind - especially if Hedo walks), but none really have the assets we'd be looking for in return.

[rak1974]

If we trade JJ for draft picks and basicly go with youth we would be a lotto team for the next five years. Is that what you want, I sure as hell don't. I been with this team for the last six or seven years and we are finally starting to win. we need to get better not younger.

[theatlfan]

Would we? I dunno if I'd say that; I wouldn't say that about any 1 player on the team. If we traded JJ we would force the team to become more balanced on O. I would think that whoever we keep combined with whoever we acquire between trades for both JJ and the redistribution of our young talent @ PF could be a very good young team. Would we be an instant NBA Championship contender? No, but we really weren't this year either. Would we be closer to winning a championship eventually? That's debatable and the point of the 1st paragraph of my post above. Fortunately, I don't have to make that call.

[ATL DirtyBird]

Trading JJ for draft picks would be utter stupidity. There is no reasoning behind that. We would be rebuilding all over again. The goal should be to maybe trade our picks for a proven star or trade wahtever to get the star we so desperately need.

[MaceCase]

Interesting thoughts. Build around the youth we have or make a run around the vets? I guess the 1st ? is are the vets good enough to actually make a run? Maybe, maybe not, can't say. Never seen them with a deep enough team to establish an opinion. I do know the team always gets better with even a pittance of more depth. The next ? is are the young players good enough together to make a run? Much harder ? to answer, because unlike vets, you'll never have enough to form an opinion of this (well, at least while they're still young). But I do know that I see the 3 good young players that we've got, Smith, Marvin, and Horford, are at their best when playing PF and at the very least we'd have to redistribute that somewhat to get a better team to build on.

As far as trading JJ, I dunno. If we went with youth, then we'd almost have to. We wouldn't get a star in return and it'd be a minor miracle to even get a lotto pick for him (who would have 1 - even potentially - and determine that they're better off with a SG pushing 30 than building with youth?). Of the teams that I could see making a run, DEN makes the most sense to me. 'Melo had some off games in the Western Conference Finals and JJ could make teams pay for stopping him. They have an extra '10 pick from CHA and a young SG prospect in JR Smith. A deal based off those 2 + DEN '11 pick would get me to bite if we did decide to go with youth. But would DEN? They already have Dahntay Jones and JR Smith forming an adequate Offense/Defense combo @ SG and they shown a proclivity for avoiding the salary cap at all cost (the Camby trade). There are other teams that could show interest in JJ (ORL also jumps to mind - especially if Hedo walks), but none really have the assets we'd be looking for in return.

I posited this on another board about our over reliance on Joe and whether or not we should give him max money in 2010. I'm all for distributing the offense over our younger core and just don't feel Joe will fall in line with that strategy especially at the price he would deserve and demand. Although they are within our division Washington would be a good destination. They have big money Vets with a closing window and can't wait on their young guys to develope. A trade of Joe for the #5 pick, one of their young guys Jarvaris Crittenton/Nick Young, Blatche and an expiring big in Thomas/Heywood would set our team up for future success and insure that we recieve atleast fair returns if Joe decides to bolt and play second fiddle to Lebron, Wade, Bosh etcetera in 2010.

We can go any direction with the #5 be it PG or wing, we'd have big man depth and a scorer in Young to replace some of Joe's shooting. Our core has had playoff experience so it won't be too difficult to incorporate these pieces easily and still lead us to a berth especially with greater offensive attention going to Horford and Marvin. A deal like this would make us take a half step back while vaulting the Wizards up in the short term but it would set our team up for success in the better part of the decade. I just don't see a title in the next two or three years even with Joe and he'll only be on the decline of his career by then while the rest of our core will be just entering their prime. I just feel Joe was instrumental in taking pressure off our youngn's when he first arrived but as time has passed he's stiffled some of their developement with the offenses over-relience on him. It's time we put some pressure on the young guys to become leaders and nurture the rookies we get after.

[MaceCase]

Trading JJ for draft picks would be utter stupidity. There is no reasoning behind that. We would be rebuilding all over again. The goal should be to maybe trade our picks for a proven star or trade wahtever to get the star we so desperately need.

We simply don't have depth enough or high enough picks to get another star to play along Joe. Any plan to do so would mean gutting our young core to get Joe help even though it doesn't mean that we'd get better because we just can't say that Joe can carry the team to a ring unless he's paired with a super star. That just seems unlikely given our current assets so instead of looking at trading the few that we have for one we should consider trading the one for many.
Remember you don't trade or sign superstars you draft them.

[theatlfan]

I posited this on another board about our over reliance on Joe and whether or not we should give him max money in 2010. I'm all for distributing the offense over our younger core and just don't feel Joe will fall in line with that strategy especially at the price he would deserve and demand. Although they are within our division Washington would be a good destination. They have big money Vets with a closing window and can't wait on their young guys to develope. A trade of Joe for the #5 pick, one of their young guys Jarvaris Crittenton/Nick Young, Blatche and an expiring big in Thomas/Heywood would set our team up for future success and insure that we recieve atleast fair returns if Joe decides to bolt and play second fiddle to Lebron, Wade, Bosh etcetera in 2010.

We can go any direction with the #5 be it PG or wing, we'd have big man depth and a scorer in Young to replace some of Joe's shooting. Our core has had playoff experience so it won't be too difficult to incorporate these pieces easily and still lead us to a berth especially with greater offensive attention going to Horford and Marvin. A deal like this would make us take a half step back while vaulting the Wizards up in the short term but it would set our team up for success in the better part of the decade. I just don't see a title in the next two or three years even with Joe and he'll only be on the decline of his career by then while the rest of our core will be just entering their prime. I just feel Joe was instrumental in taking pressure off our youngn's when he first arrived but as time has passed he's stiffled some of their developement with the offenses over-relience on him. It's time we put some pressure on the young guys to become leaders and nurture the rookies we get after.

The only thing about this is that I'm not sure if we'd want to make that decision so soon. If we traded JJ before the draft (well, unless we get Caron or Arenas or something equally unlikely), Bibby is gone, and it'd be harder to retain Marvin and Zaza. We just wouldn't have a good enough team (on paper) to convince FAs to sign with us for a little cheaper to see if we can go on a playoff run. OTOH, if we go into the FA season and see who returns and who leaves, then we'd be able to see how good of a team we have before making the decision AND we'll prolly get better return on JJ. For instance, if we trade JJ now, then how likely would another team be to offer us a salary dump for Speedy? Or try to convince Marvin that he shouldn't sign long term with us since he could have a year to earn a star to his rating since he would get a bump in his O #'s without JJ to suppress them? Also, do you think SAC could have gotten more than what they got for Artest last year than what was basically 2 1sts from HOU? That's why I floated DEN out there. We can get someone to replace JJ now and 1sts in the next 2 drafts (well, depending on protections).

[Master8492]

I can't evaluate the team properly when Woody remains the coach. It's just somehow irks me to see him coaching every game... and I can't help but watch it.

If you take Woody out of the picture, I would keep the starting 5 for a couple of more seasons. The team is on the rise and you don't want to jumble up everything. Keep the starting five and build the bench---either through draft or FA-- and work from there.

[niffoc4]

As has been said, JJ should not be traded unless it is bringing in another star...

I remember people said similar things about the Falcons when Vick was no longer an option... the offense will be better and more balanced with Joey Harrington... how did that turn out?
Now, if we traded JJ for an unprotected pick of a crappy team or for a young player who appears on the way to being an all-star, that might be ok, but I doubt that's what would happen. It'd probably be cap room (in the form of expiring contracts) and protected 1st rounders...

[D21]

^^ JJ has proven he is not a number 1 guy. We need another star to compliment. WE dont need Lebron or Kobe. We need a all star or somewhere close to that.

Hope JJ and Sund can talk about it, and agree on that, meaning that Joe would agree to extend his contract for not more than what he's making now (less would be great), to keep room get another very good player or star.

[tbhawksfan]

Comparing the Hawks and Falcons is not helpful, apples and oranges, to say the least.

My thinking is that JJ will be declining and very expensive (affecting his trade value) by the time the rest of our core is just entering it's prime. I'm not really after a pick as top compensation for a JJ move.

I floated a JJ for E. Thomas/Blatche/Young/#5 pick trade some time ago. That's the kind of trade I'd look for. Two good players, a back up C and a top young prospect.

The teams that I'd look to move JJ to would be more like Denver than Memphis. LAL, Port, Denver..;

Teams that could make a championship move now, with a JJ in his prime as a second star type. I think JJ is the type of player that could put one of these teams over the top.

More trade ideas to come.

Thanks to some of you for at least regarding the idea with an open mind.

[Harry10]

Trading JJ for draft picks would be utter stupidity. There is no reasoning behind that. We would be rebuilding all over again. The goal should be to maybe trade our picks for a proven star or trade wahtever to get the star we so desperately need.

I was actually thinking about a Joe for Bosh and Tyreke Evans. with Bosh's jump shot, i would like to see him as a SF with Josh and Horford at the PF/C spot. Tyreke, Flip and Marvin could help out at the SG until Tyreke gets some experience.

that is the only trade i would consider for Joe, is if the Hawks can get a young 20ppg scorer and lottery pick. other than that it would be hard to get fair value for Joe.

[Harry10]

Hawks should resign Joe in the 17M-18M range, but i also wouldn't mind if they held off on Joe and made an offer to Wade.

Lebron will go to NY so NJ is going to make a big push for Wade, but if the Hawks can change the basketball culture in ATL or keep it how it is now, then ATL could be an attractive place for Wade to sign with, in that it is a major market and a top 4 team in the east that is without a top 5 player

[rak1974]

Now I could get on board with JJ and M. Williams for Wade. Thats a trade I would like.

[JoshB914]

^^^ That's not a trade Miami would like. Wade is far and away a better player than JJ. The only way I see them doing that is if it became clear they were not going to resign him and from the sounds of things the two sides are already working towards an extension this summer.

[Harry10]

^ agree, Miami doesn't make a trade, unless Wade demands it. that is why i think the only way the Hawks can get Wade is in FA....... and ATL has a good shot because the Hawks are finally winning.

[JoshB914]

I don't think getting Wade is really an option. Don't see why he would want to leave Miami and if the Heat are smart they will ink him to a new deal before he even hits the market.

I think when it comes to getting another all star in here a player in Bosh's range seems more likely.