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dingclancy wrote:@Sixersrule
Prove your "majority" theory. Make a poll.
sixerswillrule wrote:Being there does help.
sixerswillrule wrote:But two steps after the pivot? Wow. Melo's move is rarely used, but has anyone even attempted to take two steps after pivoting? It's unheard of. But that's how people would view Melo's move? I don't buy it.
sixerswillrule wrote:After all of this has already happened? Nah, I don't trust it. The right way to do it is to ask someone who has yet to discuss it. Don't even say anything for either side, just carry out the motion of Carmelo's move and ask whether or not it is a travel.
Again, that's what I did with my roommate. I told him literally nothing going in, just told him to watch the play. And right after the play he said it was an "obvious" travel. Then I went back and had him watch it again, and all I said was to look closer. And then he said that it actually was not a travel.
So...what more do you want?
sixerswillrule wrote:Again, it's possible that Phil could change his mind. I never guaranteed that he wouldn't.
sixerswillrule wrote:For it to be done with 1000 people...
casey wrote:I don't understand why you're putting anything into him complaining about the call to begin with. Especially with comments like this, "You don't find it interesting that someone considered to be one of the greatest coaches of all-time doesn't know the rules?" Why would him complaining about the call make you think that he doesn't know the rules?
marcroboy wrote:Lebron just abuse the "rule" today at the start of the second quarter. No one complained.
Code: Select all
Section XIV-Traveling:
g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
casey wrote:sixerswillrule wrote:Players believe that it's a travel. That's why you see reactions like the Lakers when it finally is used.
You see the same reaction on any call that looks somewhat questionable and goes against them. That doesn't mean they think it's a travel. They're extremely biased at that moment and only have the one live look from whatever angle they're at.sixerswillrule wrote:Same concept, but still a big difference. Do you ever see reactions like that when the common up and under is done? No, because they appear to be completely different. And with blatant use of the move as done by Melo, you gain more of an advantage as opposed to jumping off what appears to be both feet at the same time. When you step forward with your opposite foot, pick up your pivot, bring your pivot leg forward and into the air and jump off of your other foot you can cover a lot more ground. It's much harder to stop. Yet, still, it is never used...
It's an awkward play to do. That's why it is rarely used.
sixerswillrule wrote:Sorry for the bump mods! But I think this is good "off-season" discussioncasey wrote:sixerswillrule wrote:That's why you see reactions like the Lakers when it finally is used.
You see the same reaction on any call that looks somewhat questionable and goes against them. That doesn't mean they think it's a travel. They're extremely biased at that moment and only have the one live look from whatever angle they're at.sixerswillrule wrote:Same concept, but still a big difference. Do you ever see reactions like that when the common up and under is done? No, because they appear to be completely different. And with blatant use of the move as done by Melo, you gain more of an advantage as opposed to jumping off what appears to be both feet at the same time. When you step forward with your opposite foot, pick up your pivot, bring your pivot leg forward and into the air and jump off of your other foot you can cover a lot more ground. It's much harder to stop. Yet, still, it is never used...
It's an awkward play to do. That's why it is rarely used.
As it turns out, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, Gary Payton, Kevin Garnett, Malik Rose, Rasheed Wallace, Grayson Allen, Jusuf Nurkic, and Seth Curry have all specifically said that picking up your pivot foot to jump from the other foot is a travel. Surely there are many others.
It's not because it's "awkward" that players rarely use it.
It's not because players are biased that they flip out when someone else does it.
It's. Because. They. Think. This. Is. A. Travel.
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:it's incredible that you can make it to the NBA, even have an HOF career, and not know the rules!
marcroboy wrote:Lebron just abuse the "rule" today at the start of the second quarter. No one complained.
madmaxmedia wrote:I am pretty sure sixerswillrule has got it right here regarding the actual rules. When players have picked up their dribble and then do an up and under its okay, if you are jumping off both feet at the same time. Once you've picked up your dribble and established your pivot foot, the only way you can lift your pivot foot off the ground is jumping with both feet simultaneously. You can't take a pivot step, then lift your pivot foot to try to cover extra distance.
I haven't seen all the Kobe example videos in this post, but the main move that seems to be in question looks legit to me. Sometimes it looks like one foot maybe leaves the ground a split second before the other, but it's close enough not to be called as its not an absolute clear cut violation. His footwork is top notch and he knows how to do the move in one smooth motion so you naturally lift both feet at the same time.
The travel that I see uncalled the most is the layup that adds an extra jump hop at the end, it's a sneaky way to get an extra step in without being blatantly obvious (I think if you delay your gather enough it can actually be a legal move.)
If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before
the pivot foot is raised off the floor. If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass or
attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.
If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
sixerswillrule wrote:madmaxmedia wrote:I am pretty sure sixerswillrule has got it right here regarding the actual rules. When players have picked up their dribble and then do an up and under its okay, if you are jumping off both feet at the same time. Once you've picked up your dribble and established your pivot foot, the only way you can lift your pivot foot off the ground is jumping with both feet simultaneously. You can't take a pivot step, then lift your pivot foot to try to cover extra distance.
I haven't seen all the Kobe example videos in this post, but the main move that seems to be in question looks legit to me. Sometimes it looks like one foot maybe leaves the ground a split second before the other, but it's close enough not to be called as its not an absolute clear cut violation. His footwork is top notch and he knows how to do the move in one smooth motion so you naturally lift both feet at the same time.
The travel that I see uncalled the most is the layup that adds an extra jump hop at the end, it's a sneaky way to get an extra step in without being blatantly obvious (I think if you delay your gather enough it can actually be a legal move.)
I've since realized that it is legal by rule and have been telling people that it's legal for the last several years. The NBA has come out and said this a few times.
...
But many people, from fans to NBA players, and probably coaches and refs, think it's a travel.