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24 > 23

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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#21 » by tmac4real » Fri Jun 5, 2009 7:55 pm

AmusingFiddle wrote:Let's wait Lebron to play for 13 years in the legaue and THEN we can form an opinion as to who is better. Kobe is WAAAAAAAAAAY more polished player than Lebron. Lebron has yet to work on his game a lot compared to Kobe. Lebron does not have a post up game like Kobe and does not shoot as well as Kobe. I read somewhere that when Kobe is shooting within 15 ft his shooting % is something like 70% (can someone confirm).

The same people that are claiming Cavs were the best team that WOULD (not could) take out the Magic and the Lakers are now claiming Lebron did not have the supporting cast. Please give the Magic some credit for their defense.

The Lakers have too many weapons. People fail to realize that part of the reason the Magic will not succeed is because their effort on the defensive end will impact their offensive game and vice-a-versa. With that said LAKERS WILL TAKE GAME TWO.


The Magic's defense was good, but the Cavs against missed a ton of open shots.

The Magic defense was not any Piston like, Bulls of 90's like defense that was the "main" reason Cavs lost.

It was good solid defense, but his supporting cast didn't show up.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#22 » by TyCobb » Fri Jun 5, 2009 7:58 pm

I'm so tired of people saying Lebron has passed Kobe. He's only got him statistically beat. That's all Lebron is...just a 6"8, 270 pound statistic.

Kobe don't give a **** about statistics.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#23 » by TonyMontana » Fri Jun 5, 2009 8:01 pm

tmac4real wrote:
TonyMontana wrote:Funny you come on here giving us and Kobe props and then you claim we are going to lose game 2.......... Thanks.


So what? I'm supposed to jock Kobe like you do till where it doesn't make sense?

Magic have proven to be a dangerous team. I'm stating what I think will happen as a neutral fan.

I don't like the Magic and I don't like the Lakers.

You guys beating Magic didn't hurt my feelings, and if they beat you I'm not going to cry about it either.

It seems though that if Magic 3pointers get going they can hurt you, and is that saying too much considering Lakers have lost 2 games to Magic before?

Show me one post or thread that Im JOCKING Kobe and if you fail to do that then your really going to bring the E THUGGING out of me. :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh and STOP CRYING SO MUCH. :wink: Its all over this board specially on G.B.
Now go and post on your board about up and coming drafts and TMac with his latest COMING BACK MIXTAPE.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#24 » by miggs » Fri Jun 5, 2009 8:29 pm

TonyMontana wrote:
tmac4real wrote:
TonyMontana wrote:Funny you come on here giving us and Kobe props and then you claim we are going to lose game 2.......... Thanks.


So what? I'm supposed to jock Kobe like you do till where it doesn't make sense?

Magic have proven to be a dangerous team. I'm stating what I think will happen as a neutral fan.

I don't like the Magic and I don't like the Lakers.

You guys beating Magic didn't hurt my feelings, and if they beat you I'm not going to cry about it either.

It seems though that if Magic 3pointers get going they can hurt you, and is that saying too much considering Lakers have lost 2 games to Magic before?

Show me one post or thread that Im JOCKING Kobe and if you fail to do that then your really going to bring the E THUGGING out of me. :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh and STOP CRYING SO MUCH. :wink: Its all over this board specially on G.B.
Now go and post on your board about up and coming drafts and TMac with his latest COMING BACK MIXTAPE.



:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#25 » by Erik Eleven » Fri Jun 5, 2009 8:48 pm

3 rings vs 0 rings says the OP is right.

When Kobe's team mates didn't perform, it was Kobe's fault. He didn't make his team mates better, was the ongoing criticism. I apply the same to LeBronze. Obviously, Kobe is better at making his team mates better since they're performing better.

Kobe surgically dissected the Orlando defense last night, scoring and giving his team mates great looks. Just study the shooting percentage of Fish, Luke, Gasol etc from last night. The Lakers played great team ball, lead by the best player in basketball, period.

When Kobe's career is over, we can discuss the other 23. He might get closer than many think. Six is not out of the question, neither is seven. Bynum will blow up, it's just a matter of injury free time.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#26 » by milesfides » Fri Jun 5, 2009 8:56 pm

Lebron puts up better numbers because the entire Cavs' offense runs through him, quite literally.

Lebron is a better rebounder than Kobe, but other than that, if Kobe played in a more conventional offense (e.g., just give the ball to him, run him off screens, high pick and rolls, etc.), his assist numbers would be higher and so would his points.

Lebron can't score at Kobe's level - Kobe could easily average over 30 points per game. He could easily average 7 assists as well, if it weren't for the fact that the triangle offense makes it difficult for one player to average more than 6 a game.

In comparable offenses, I can see Kobe averaging 32 (at least), 5.5, and 7 in contrast to Lebron's 28, 7.5, and 7. Lebron would have a higher overall fg%, closer to 50%, while Kobe would be in the mid to high forties and shoot 10% higher from the line (a big difference).

They have different strengths. Lebron is clearly a better rebounder, and more of his shots come at the basket - thus the higher fg%. But Kobe has a much better jump shot, is a much more balanced offensive player, a more unpredictable offensive player, who can hurt you in more ways than Lebron can.

I take Kobe's diversity and mastery of the game over Lebron's drives and pull up threes. Defensively, I also take Kobe's ability to be a lockdown defender (and underrated team defender) over Lebron's weakside blocks.

As a team leader, I also take Kobe's serious and professional approach to the game, over Lebron's somewhat immature antics (posing for photographs, really?). Kobe demands accountability, while Lebron's teammates come across as sycophants.

Kobe does inspire his teammates to become better (where are you now, Smush Parker? Brian Cook?). He trusts in throwaways like Shannon Brown, forgotten players like Ariza, even broken machines like Sasha. He pep talks Bynum and Gasol, and makes sure Odom is mentally in the game.

What I saw yesterday really defined the difference between Kobe and Lebron; Kobe was a coach out there, organizing, directing, controlling the game. He made sure his teammates were on the same page as well. It's funny, Phil almost seemed upset at Kobe during game 1, that the Lakers were going too much to him. Well, the Lakers did abandon the triangle offense, and Kobe did dominate the ball nearly every possession...and it led to a dominating 25-point victory. The Lakers should definitely look for more balance as the series goes, but there's no question that Kobe made sure that Game 1 would belong to the Lakers. Lebron couldn't do the same.

Funny, nobody was talking about how bad Lebron's teammates were during the regular season when they amassed the league's best record, when they swept the first two rounds. Maybe Lebron and his gaudy stats (hey, Kobe averaged 35 a game before) could learn something from Kobe - that basketball is more than just a game of numbers. That less is sometimes more. That balance is better than the highlight dunk. That there's a way to dominate the ball without marginalizing teammates. That there's a way to stay off the ball but still contribute. That it's how you end, not how you start.

The last two games, one to close out Denver and this first game against the Magic, should be a clear indication why Kobe is superior to Lebron. Closing things out and starting things up - that's the beginning and end of the discussion.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#27 » by JordansBulls » Fri Jun 5, 2009 8:59 pm

Cavs were blowing out Orlando early on. Lakers didn't start to blow out Orlando until the 3rd quarter and by then it was over. Had the Lakers started off blowing out Orlando from the 1st quarter then maybe Orlando could have come back, but since it happened later in the game it was too tough to recover.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#28 » by YiYaoYue » Fri Jun 5, 2009 9:04 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Cavs were blowing out Orlando early on. Lakers didn't start to blow out Orlando until the 3rd quarter and by then it was over. Had the Lakers started off blowing out Orlando from the 1st quarter then maybe Orlando could have come back, but since it happened later in the game it was too tough to recover.


Both Lakers and Magic are teams that get better as the quarters go by. Cavs were an early burst team that cooled off then tries to come back at the end. That great early play could have contributed to the multiple wins due to majority of the east teams giving up after an early blowout. Orlando will play better most likely but it has nothing to do with who is blowout who and what quarter. That doesn't matter to either team.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#29 » by chyau.00 » Fri Jun 5, 2009 11:51 pm

for those of you who say lebron > kobe statistically or other wise

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2009 ... f-his-game

24 > 23
24 = 23 +1

and for those of you who are still defending magic (poor shooting or whatever)....imagine if kobe and the rest of the lakers tried for the entire game. Re-watch the game, check out the extra long rest kobe got, and check out who was out there for the lakers in the 4th.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#30 » by iamworthy » Sat Jun 6, 2009 4:19 am

JordansBulls wrote:Cavs were blowing out Orlando early on. Lakers didn't start to blow out Orlando until the 3rd quarter and by then it was over. Had the Lakers started off blowing out Orlando from the 1st quarter then maybe Orlando could have come back, but since it happened later in the game it was too tough to recover.


yeah ok :-?
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#31 » by Mamba Venom » Sat Jun 6, 2009 5:09 am

Its the crazy focus Kobe has... he is playing for keeps

LeBron is a better player

Kobe wants it more even if that means not smiling for a week so he can get all pissed off and take it out on the court.

He prepares for a game like method actors prepare to play a character. He puts as much effort into getting character (game ready) as anyone EVER
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#32 » by KObe Bryant » Sat Jun 6, 2009 5:18 am

Kobe is G.O.A.T and Baby Lebron will not surpass him until Kobe's 35.
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#33 » by Sofa King » Sat Jun 6, 2009 4:18 pm

When I read the thread, I thought it meant... Kobe > Jordan. :lol:

btw... how's T-Mac doing? :lol:
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#34 » by Kilroy » Sat Jun 6, 2009 5:17 pm

I'm going to say it... I watched every Cavs game in the playoffs and of course every Lakers game in the play-offs...

Kobe is still clearly better...

Defensively, Intensity, skill, craftiness, closing, scoring ability... It's still Kobe.

LeBron is an amazing talent and probably more physically blessed than Kobe, but his game has a lot of development to do before he can be considered a better player... He just doesn't have the SKILLS yet... He has the TOOLS... The GIFTS... and he's getting it done...

MVP? I think that's clearly LeBron this season... You swap Gasol for any big man on the Cavs and the argument gets better... LeBron is clearly the most valuable player on his team in the league... That's hard for me to say because Kobe's been that guy for the Lakers since about a year before Shaq left, and he got no respect... But it's LeBron now...

But I'd still take Kobe over LeBron if I was starting a team today... Not only is he the best basketball player package out there, but he's also a walking encyclopedia of Baskeball skill... Nobody has more tools to win games than him. He's like a Bruce Lee... He can kill you in a million different ways...
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#35 » by Sofa King » Sat Jun 6, 2009 5:21 pm

^Hmmm... if Kobe is Bruce Lee then Lebron must be Chuck Norris. :lol:
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#36 » by TonyMontana » Sat Jun 6, 2009 7:22 pm

Sofa King wrote:^Hmmm... if Kobe is Bruce Lee then Lebron must be Chuck Norris. :lol:

Lebron is Kung Fu Crab. :lol:
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#37 » by Dome » Sat Jun 6, 2009 8:00 pm

At this point, Kobe's game definitely is more refined than LeBron's. It would be rather shocking if it weren't, after all Kobe has got quite a few years of experience on LeBron.

The fact that there's such a discussion while LeBron is only 24 while Kobe is 31 (close to 32) should be reason enough for Kobe fans to be a bit cautious about making bold statements IMO. After LeBron's learning curve has peaked you can start to get a better look at where they stand, and IMO you can't make up the score until at least Kobe has retired and LeBron has either caught up with Kobe or retired himself.

As a Magic fan I'm very conscious of the fact that we might have spoiled the great showdown most of you probably wanted to see. Personally I think even if the Lakers and Cavs matched up in the finals you couldn't have drawn any conclusions to the outcome as far as the Kobe vs. LeBron debate. Right now it would've just been two teams facing off, not two individuals. It would've definitely made a nice matchup to follow though, but as you might understand that as a Magic fan I'm not too dissappointed the Cavs didn't make it to the finals.. ;)
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#38 » by LA Warrior » Sat Jun 6, 2009 8:44 pm

JordansBulls wrote:Cavs were blowing out Orlando early on. Lakers didn't start to blow out Orlando until the 3rd quarter and by then it was over. Had the Lakers started off blowing out Orlando from the 1st quarter then maybe Orlando could have come back, but since it happened later in the game it was too tough to recover.


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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#39 » by Kilroy » Sat Jun 6, 2009 8:49 pm

I think I would be hesitant as a LeBron fan to say his ceiling is higher than Kobe's due to his youth...

Kobe's frame may not be as muscular as Bron (which is the main reason people think LeBron is more physically gifted) but he's also lighter... LeBron is beating the hell out of himself right now...

He absolutely HAS to find other ways to win.

People talk about the mileage Kobe's put on because of how young he was when he came into the league... But he came in as second fiddle to Shaq and wasn't expected to carry his team either...

So you could argue that LeBron has more mileage on him at this point in his carreer than Kobe had at the same time.

If Kobe is an "Old-31" LeBron's an "Old-25"...

The point is, LeBron should be the next big thing, but nothing is garunteed...
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Re: 24 > 23 

Post#40 » by LA Warrior » Sat Jun 6, 2009 9:43 pm

milesfides wrote:Lebron puts up better numbers because the entire Cavs' offense runs through him, quite literally.

Lebron is a better rebounder than Kobe, but other than that, if Kobe played in a more conventional offense (e.g., just give the ball to him, run him off screens, high pick and rolls, etc.), his assist numbers would be higher and so would his points.

Lebron can't score at Kobe's level - Kobe could easily average over 30 points per game. He could easily average 7 assists as well, if it weren't for the fact that the triangle offense makes it difficult for one player to average more than 6 a game.

In comparable offenses, I can see Kobe averaging 32 (at least), 5.5, and 7 in contrast to Lebron's 28, 7.5, and 7. Lebron would have a higher overall fg%, closer to 50%, while Kobe would be in the mid to high forties and shoot 10% higher from the line (a big difference).

They have different strengths. Lebron is clearly a better rebounder, and more of his shots come at the basket - thus the higher fg%. But Kobe has a much better jump shot, is a much more balanced offensive player, a more unpredictable offensive player, who can hurt you in more ways than Lebron can.

I take Kobe's diversity and mastery of the game over Lebron's drives and pull up threes. Defensively, I also take Kobe's ability to be a lockdown defender (and underrated team defender) over Lebron's weakside blocks.

As a team leader, I also take Kobe's serious and professional approach to the game, over Lebron's somewhat immature antics (posing for photographs, really?). Kobe demands accountability, while Lebron's teammates come across as sycophants.

Kobe does inspire his teammates to become better (where are you now, Smush Parker? Brian Cook?). He trusts in throwaways like Shannon Brown, forgotten players like Ariza, even broken machines like Sasha. He pep talks Bynum and Gasol, and makes sure Odom is mentally in the game.

What I saw yesterday really defined the difference between Kobe and Lebron; Kobe was a coach out there, organizing, directing, controlling the game. He made sure his teammates were on the same page as well. It's funny, Phil almost seemed upset at Kobe during game 1, that the Lakers were going too much to him. Well, the Lakers did abandon the triangle offense, and Kobe did dominate the ball nearly every possession...and it led to a dominating 25-point victory. The Lakers should definitely look for more balance as the series goes, but there's no question that Kobe made sure that Game 1 would belong to the Lakers. Lebron couldn't do the same.

Funny, nobody was talking about how bad Lebron's teammates were during the regular season when they amassed the league's best record, when they swept the first two rounds. Maybe Lebron and his gaudy stats (hey, Kobe averaged 35 a game before) could learn something from Kobe - that basketball is more than just a game of numbers. That less is sometimes more. That balance is better than the highlight dunk. That there's a way to dominate the ball without marginalizing teammates. That there's a way to stay off the ball but still contribute. That it's how you end, not how you start.

The last two games, one to close out Denver and this first game against the Magic, should be a clear indication why Kobe is superior to Lebron. Closing things out and starting things up - that's the beginning and end of the discussion.


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