Which way should Hawks go ?

[MaceCase]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when was the last time a 20 year old current All-Star was traded for another 20 year old current All-Star? Only one I can think of was when cousin T-Mac was traded to Houston for Franchise, but I'm not sure that Stevie actually made an All-Star game that year.

[Harry10]

I don't think getting Wade is really an option. Don't see why he would want to leave Miami and if the Heat are smart they will ink him to a new deal before he even hits the market.

I think when it comes to getting another all star in here a player in Bosh's range seems more likely.

of course the Heat are going to make an offer for an extention, question is if Wade is going to sign it.

[MaceCase]

I don't think getting Wade is really an option. Don't see why he would want to leave Miami and if the Heat are smart they will ink him to a new deal before he even hits the market.

I think when it comes to getting another all star in here a player in Bosh's range seems more likely.

of course the Heat are going to make an offer for an extention, question is if Wade is going to sign it.

Wade is in a top media market, a beautiful warm all year city in a state with tax benefits. He's also playing for an organization that Pat Riley is running. These are all factors that would lead a player to stay in his current situation especially when they have the resources to build a contender around him. If he leaves common sense would dictate that he'd trade up and I don't mean geographic wise.

[Harry10]

Wade is in a top media market, a beautiful warm all year city in a state with tax benefits. He's also playing for an organization that Pat Riley is running. These are all factors that would lead a player to stay in his current situation especially when they have the resources to build a contender around him. If he leaves common sense would dictate that he'd trade up and I don't mean geographic wise.

exactly..... "trade up" to a team with more talent and more help. i'm pretty sure Wade is tired of being on a team that is a one man show. i'm pretty sure Wade is looking to carry a team to a championship and not just into the playoffs. teams with some help would be a team like the Bulls with Rose or the Hawks with Smith/Horford

BTW: i absolutly hate the FL tax argument, because it just doesn't work, and it is so dumb when people use it. if the FL tax argument was even legit, then why aren't the top five athletes in every sport on a FL team?! TX teams also have a hard time getting top FAs

[MaceCase]

Wade is in a top media market, a beautiful warm all year city in a state with tax benefits. He's also playing for an organization that Pat Riley is running. These are all factors that would lead a player to stay in his current situation especially when they have the resources to build a contender around him. If he leaves common sense would dictate that he'd trade up and I don't mean geographic wise.

exactly..... "trade up" to a team with more talent and more help. i'm pretty sure Wade is tired of being on a team that is a one man show. i'm pretty sure Wade is looking to carry a team to a championship and not just into the playoffs. teams with some help would be a team like the Bulls with Rose or the Hawks with Smith/Horford

BTW: i absolutly hate the FL tax argument, because it just doesn't work, and it is so dumb when people use it. if the FL tax argument was even legit, then why aren't the top five athletes in every sport on a FL team?! TX teams also have a hard time getting top FAs

No I only mentioned the FL tax as a sweetener. Miami is beautiful, they are a major market (thus why Shaq had no issue going to them) they have cap to burn, talent in Beasley and can add another player to help him out. Atlanta no matter how you cut is not a trade up from Miami, niether Josh or Al are stars and it's a smaller market in a "lesser" city. By trading up, Wade would only consider Chicago because its his home and they have a future all-star in Rose plus the market or New York because they can get another all-star along with Wade plus their #1 market. Atlanta would be a loss to him on every front unless Josh get's a Harvard degree over the summer and plays like Lebron mixed with Kobe.

[JoshB914]

Wade is in a top media market, a beautiful warm all year city in a state with tax benefits. He's also playing for an organization that Pat Riley is running. These are all factors that would lead a player to stay in his current situation especially when they have the resources to build a contender around him. If he leaves common sense would dictate that he'd trade up and I don't mean geographic wise.

exactly..... "trade up" to a team with more talent and more help. i'm pretty sure Wade is tired of being on a team that is a one man show. i'm pretty sure Wade is looking to carry a team to a championship and not just into the playoffs. teams with some help would be a team like the Bulls with Rose or the Hawks with Smith/Horford

BTW: i absolutly hate the FL tax argument, because it just doesn't work, and it is so dumb when people use it. if the FL tax argument was even legit, then why aren't the top five athletes in every sport on a FL team?! TX teams also have a hard time getting top FAs

I don't know that Wade will neccesarily be a one-man show over the upcoming seasons. Beasley has a ton of talent and potential and they will have $$$ to spend with JO and Blount coming off the books next summer.

I just don't think Wade is a realistic target at all. There are surely some top players we might be able to make a run at in 2010, especially if we show major progress as a team next year and show the potential to become a championship team. We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

[Harry10]

No I only mentioned the FL tax as a sweetener. Miami is beautiful, they are a major market (thus why Shaq had no issue going to them) they have cap to burn, talent in Beasley and can add another player to help him out. Atlanta no matter how you cut is not a trade up from Miami, niether Josh or Al are stars and it's a smaller market in a "lesser" city. By trading up, Wade would only consider Chicago because its his home and they have a future all-star in Rose plus the market or New York because they can get another all-star along with Wade plus their #1 market. Atlanta would be a loss to him on every front unless Josh get's a Harvard degree over the summer and plays like Lebron mixed with Kobe.

ATL, DAL, and MIA coming in 3rd, was Shaq's short list of cities he wanted to be traded to, coming out of LA. DAL is their because that is were his wife is from, MIA was in their because they are a warm weather city and made the playoffs the previous season. ATL made it just solely based on the warm weather and city itself..... but now the Hawks are winning.

you totally missed the point about Smith/Horford. the Hawks are not winning because of Joe, they are winning mainly of the interior defence that Smith/Horford supply..... something that star perimeter players love, because it makes the game easier for them and they know it gets them wins.

[MaceCase]

No I only mentioned the FL tax as a sweetener. Miami is beautiful, they are a major market (thus why Shaq had no issue going to them) they have cap to burn, talent in Beasley and can add another player to help him out. Atlanta no matter how you cut is not a trade up from Miami, niether Josh or Al are stars and it's a smaller market in a "lesser" city. By trading up, Wade would only consider Chicago because its his home and they have a future all-star in Rose plus the market or New York because they can get another all-star along with Wade plus their #1 market. Atlanta would be a loss to him on every front unless Josh get's a Harvard degree over the summer and plays like Lebron mixed with Kobe.

ATL, DAL, and MIA coming in 3rd, was Shaq's short list of cities he wanted to be traded to, coming out of LA. DAL is their because that is were his wife is from, MIA was in their because they are a warm weather city and made the playoffs the previous season. ATL made it just solely based on the warm weather and city itself..... but now the Hawks are winning.

you totally missed the point about Smith/Horford. the Hawks are not winning because of Joe, they are winning mainly of the interior defence that Smith/Horford supply..... something that star perimeter players love, because it makes the game easier for them and they know it gets them wins.

Dallas is also the 6th largest media market, Miami is the 9th I believe, Atlanta is far below them but seing as Shaq fancies himself a rapper the ATL made sense for him.
Correct me if I'm wrong but since when did Josh Smith and Al Horford become a dominant big man tandem? Joe is an all-star perimeter player yet it seems that he is the one carrying our "dominant" frontcourt. There is no PG and we have no post ffense, replacing Joe with Wade would net us more wins not because of Al and Josh but Wade.
Atlanta is not a superior destination at all period, The city itself is a downgrade and Wade can currently stay in a superior market where he can be teamed up with another all-star or go to Atlanta where he would be the only all-star aquisition.

[Harry10]

Dallas is also the 6th largest media market, Miami is the 9th I believe, Atlanta is far below them but seing as Shaq fancies himself a rapper the ATL made sense for him.
Correct me if I'm wrong but since when did Josh Smith and Al Horford become a dominant big man tandem? Joe is an all-star perimeter player yet it seems that he is the one carrying our "dominant" frontcourt. There is no PG and we have no post ffense, replacing Joe with Wade would net us more wins not because of Al and Josh but Wade.
Atlanta is not a superior destination at all period, The city itself is a downgrade and Wade can currently stay in a superior market where he can be teamed up with another all-star or go to Atlanta where he would be the only all-star aquisition.

what the hell are you talking about? ATL's DMA is 9th in the US

and what the hell are you talking about Smith/Horford not being a dominate big man tandem??? have you even been watching NBA basketball?

Dwight/anybody
KG/anybody
Zydrunas/Varejao
Smith/Horford

so exactly what frontcourt(s) in the east would you put ahead of Smith/Horford???

[Ruzious]

Interesting thoughts. Build around the youth we have or make a run around the vets? I guess the 1st ? is are the vets good enough to actually make a run? Maybe, maybe not, can't say. Never seen them with a deep enough team to establish an opinion. I do know the team always gets better with even a pittance of more depth. The next ? is are the young players good enough together to make a run? Much harder ? to answer, because unlike vets, you'll never have enough to form an opinion of this (well, at least while they're still young). But I do know that I see the 3 good young players that we've got, Smith, Marvin, and Horford, are at their best when playing PF and at the very least we'd have to redistribute that somewhat to get a better team to build on.

As far as trading JJ, I dunno. If we went with youth, then we'd almost have to. We wouldn't get a star in return and it'd be a minor miracle to even get a lotto pick for him (who would have 1 - even potentially - and determine that they're better off with a SG pushing 30 than building with youth?). Of the teams that I could see making a run, DEN makes the most sense to me. 'Melo had some off games in the Western Conference Finals and JJ could make teams pay for stopping him. They have an extra '10 pick from CHA and a young SG prospect in JR Smith. A deal based off those 2 + DEN '11 pick would get me to bite if we did decide to go with youth. But would DEN? They already have Dahntay Jones and JR Smith forming an adequate Offense/Defense combo @ SG and they shown a proclivity for avoiding the salary cap at all cost (the Camby trade). There are other teams that could show interest in JJ (ORL also jumps to mind - especially if Hedo walks), but none really have the assets we'd be looking for in return.

I posited this on another board about our over reliance on Joe and whether or not we should give him max money in 2010. I'm all for distributing the offense over our younger core and just don't feel Joe will fall in line with that strategy especially at the price he would deserve and demand. Although they are within our division Washington would be a good destination. They have big money Vets with a closing window and can't wait on their young guys to develope. A trade of Joe for the #5 pick, one of their young guys Jarvaris Crittenton/Nick Young, Blatche and an expiring big in Thomas/Heywood would set our team up for future success and insure that we recieve atleast fair returns if Joe decides to bolt and play second fiddle to Lebron, Wade, Bosh etcetera in 2010.

We can go any direction with the #5 be it PG or wing, we'd have big man depth and a scorer in Young to replace some of Joe's shooting. Our core has had playoff experience so it won't be too difficult to incorporate these pieces easily and still lead us to a berth especially with greater offensive attention going to Horford and Marvin. A deal like this would make us take a half step back while vaulting the Wizards up in the short term but it would set our team up for success in the better part of the decade. I just don't see a title in the next two or three years even with Joe and he'll only be on the decline of his career by then while the rest of our core will be just entering their prime. I just feel Joe was instrumental in taking pressure off our youngn's when he first arrived but as time has passed he's stiffled some of their developement with the offenses over-relience on him. It's time we put some pressure on the young guys to become leaders and nurture the rookies we get after.

Wizards fan here. I think there would/should be a lot of interest from Washington if Johnson is made avialable. Would Horford also be available - with the impression being that his best position already belongs to Smith? If they both are availabe, what do you think of this blockbust: Johnson and Hordord for - Caron Butler, the 5th pick, either Blatche or Javale McGee (Most Wiz fans like McGee more than Blatche, but I'd flip a coin.), and filler (Etan or James). Assume you could use the 5th pick on Harden. 3 is Butler's best position, but he played some 2 last season, so he and Marvin Williams could play some together. Or Williams could be included in another trade.

[tbhawksfan]

Sorry Wiz fan, but that's an embarrasing offer. JJ is better than CB and Horford is way better than #5. You're two young bigs are both OK back ups with limited potential. No way. just for perspective. i've been proposing:

JJ for Blatche / Young /#5/ E. Thomas

So as opposed to my offer, yours would be Horf for almost free. I know CB is much better than Young, but that's far from evening it out.

I don't think you guys even have the pieces to make an offer for JJ and Horf.

[Ruzious]

Sorry Wiz fan, but that's an embarrasing offer. JJ is better than CB and Horford is way better than #5. You're two young bigs are both OK back ups with limited potential. No way. just for perspective. i've been proposing:

JJ for Blatche / Young /#5/ E. Thomas

So as opposed to my offer, yours would be Horf for almost free. I know CB is much better than Young, but that's far from evening it out.

I don't think you guys even have the pieces to make an offer for JJ and Horf.

Your perspective and Washington's are different. Washington can't give up front court talent without getting back some in return - or at least some ammunition to get it.

As far as McGee and Blatche, both have huge upsides. The problem with both is - Are there basketball IQs going to be high enough to reach their potential.

But... since you think Blatche is just an ok backup with limited potential, take him out of your deal and replace him with a cap filler type. Then you might have a basis for a deal.

[HoopsGuru25]

Trading Joe for a deal centered around the 5th pick makes no sense. We aren't rebuilding and if we were...I would prefer we look at someone who has already shown something(Stuckey or Thad Young for example)as opposed to the 5th pick in a crap draft. Outside of the top 2..this looks like 2006 all over again where you have about a 35 percent chance at picking a player who is an end of the bench scrub in the lottery.

[MaceCase]

Dallas is also the 6th largest media market, Miami is the 9th I believe, Atlanta is far below them but seing as Shaq fancies himself a rapper the ATL made sense for him.
Correct me if I'm wrong but since when did Josh Smith and Al Horford become a dominant big man tandem? Joe is an all-star perimeter player yet it seems that he is the one carrying our "dominant" frontcourt. There is no PG and we have no post ffense, replacing Joe with Wade would net us more wins not because of Al and Josh but Wade.
Atlanta is not a superior destination at all period, The city itself is a downgrade and Wade can currently stay in a superior market where he can be teamed up with another all-star or go to Atlanta where he would be the only all-star aquisition.

what the hell are you talking about? ATL's DMA is 9th in the US

and what the hell are you talking about Smith/Horford not being a dominate big man tandem??? have you even been watching NBA basketball?

Dwight/anybody
KG/anybody
Zydrunas/Varejao
Smith/Horford

so exactly what frontcourt(s) in the east would you put ahead of Smith/Horford???

If Al and Smith are a dominant duo.....then why are half the trades here about getting taller by trading one of them?

[theatlfan]

Trading Joe for a deal centered around the 5th pick makes no sense. We aren't rebuilding and if we were...I would prefer we look at someone who has already shown something(Stuckey or Thad Young for example)as opposed to the 5th pick in a crap draft. Outside of the top 2..this looks like 2006 all over again where you have about a 35 percent chance at picking a player who is an end of the bench scrub in the lottery.

The reason for dealing JJ would be to to use the #5 pick to build around our youth. Blatche or McGee and/or Young could be decent young backups to Marvin / Horford / Smith and give us one h3ll of a very talented, young front court. The #5 pick could go toward either Harden or the PG you like best after Rubio. I guess Thabeet, Hill, and DeRozan could enter the conversation for some, but I'd be willing to go with the front court described. We'd also clear some cap room next year which helps in decisions about signing some of our young guys. We'd be young again, but there's definitely talent.

Wizards fan here. I think there would/should be a lot of interest from Washington if Johnson is made avialable. Would Horford also be available - with the impression being that his best position already belongs to Smith? If they both are availabe, what do you think of this blockbust: Johnson and Hordord for - Caron Butler, the 5th pick, either Blatche or Javale McGee (Most Wiz fans like McGee more than Blatche, but I'd flip a coin.), and filler (Etan or James). Assume you could use the 5th pick on Harden. 3 is Butler's best position, but he played some 2 last season, so he and Marvin Williams could play some together. Or Williams could be included in another trade.

If you're trolling for JJ and Horford, then putting something together around Butler, the #5, Young, and a young big is interesting, but I agree with tbs, we'd want more for both of them. It just doesn't make sense to trade both our best veteran and one of our promising young players in the same trade unless it was just too good a deal to refuse.

As far as both trades though, I can promise that we wouldn't be ready to do trade JJ before the draft. At this point, our highest priority is to attempt to take a step up from #4 into the same tier as CLE, ORL, and BOS in the East. If we can do that or not is debatable, but we wouldn't be ready to make that call before this off-season and we have a very clear picture what Speedy's expiring with which other assets could bring. We would need to be bowled over before we make that call now. Having said that, something along the line of Butler, one of your young bigs, and #5 for JJ might be enough to bowl us over. That would not only make us younger, but also spread our talent a little better. If this is too rich, then we could talk after the FA season and we know better if trading JJ is in our best interests.