Has Kobe Bryant been an overrated defender the past 4 years?

[Baller 24]

-- Kobe's defense from 2000-2003 was epic, those 4 years his defense was amazing, you can argue that he was a potential DPOY in the '01 season. BUT since the '05 season Kobe continues to make the All-NBA Defensive First team, does he deserve these accomplishments?

---The All-NBA Defensive teams are decided by the coaches, but the DPOY award is decided by the media.
---In the '06 DPOY voting Kobe Bryant was nowhere to be found, he didn't receive ONE SINGLE ballot for the DPOY award, yet he's found on the All-NBA Defensive First Team?

---In the '07 DPOY voting Kobe Bryant was ranked 24th in DPOY voting, he only got one vote, but amazingly he's found on the All-NBA Defensive First Team that season too.

---In the '08 DPOY voting Kobe Bryant was ranked 5th, he got 0 first place votes, he was behind other perimeter defenders, yet he's found first in the All-NBA Defensive First Team?

---In the '09 DPOY voting Kobe Bryant was ranked 5th behind Ron Artest, Shane Battier, and D-Wade, he recived less votes than all of them, yet he's on the All-NBA First Defensive Team again?

Is this an example of the coches living in the past? Or is Kobe REALLY that good of a defender? Because in the past during the 3-peat he was a spectacular defender, you can't argue against his accomplishments, but lately it doesn't seem like that at all, he doesn't play NEARLY CLOSE to the same defense he played in his earlier years. What do you guys think, is this part of coaches hyping his defensive abilities, or is he really that good of a defender?

[NO-KG-AI]

He's still awesome when you piss him off.

Kobe is really devastating when he gets mad, I wish he were more fickle and could let himself get pissed over dumb ****, because he doesn't miss.

I think he has though, not to say he's not still great, but he doesn't play with the same tenacity defensively as he used to.

[bballcool34]

I think they give him the nod more on his ability to play great defense rather than his actual performance on the court.

[LebronsCavs]

I think I know what Baller thinks.

[Roger Murdock]

He is that good at defense he just doesnt play like it cause he doesnt try as much anymore, and why should he if hes getting the same amount of credit for half the work.

[kooldude]

Yes he is overrated. Defense is about consistency as much as offense.

Basically when he tries, his D is still elite. Basically when he's mad or end of 4th quarters.

He tried consistency against Melo and get destroyed. He stopped defending him and Melo goes cold for the rest of the series. Interesting......

[JordansBulls]

2006-2007 he definitely did not deserve it. Finishing 24th in voting you shouldn't even make the 2nd team. Also that was the year Arenas went off for 60 and Redd 45 on LA.

[TMACFORMVP]

I think he's overrated when people talk about him as DPOY candidate, or even one of the greatest defenders of all time. He's terrific at ball denial when he's motivated, and as JVG has noted, an excellent possession defender in need of a stop, but on a consistent basis, yes, I'd say he has been an overrated defender these past couple of seasons.

I'll admit, I was surprised he didn't not guard either Allen or Pierce in the finals..

[Silver Bullet]

Every perimeter defender over the age of 28 has always been over rated. Payton was incredibly over rated, Artest is, Kidd was and MJ (yes, I know this is blasphemy, sorry) was too.

[PDXKnight]

I've never been as high on Kobe's defense as some have been throughout his career. He can keep up with his man which is great in a superstar, but I tend to think due to his offensive production, many have been quick to place him almost as highly as a prime Bruce Bowen when it comes to defense.

[Silver Bullet]

I guess most of you think journalists are a better judge of ability than head coaches. I guess that makes sense, knowing some of the posters who posted above.

[Jordan23Forever]

Every perimeter defender over the age of 28 has always been over rated. Payton was incredibly over rated, Artest is, Kidd was and MJ (yes, I know this is blasphemy, sorry) was too.

Always count on Kobe fans to sling the mud at other players rather than take their lumps for their boy's incredibly overrated defense.

Any defender over 28 is overrated? MJ in '92 and '93? Payton in '98 and '99? Kidd in 2003? Pippen from '95-'97? Sorry, but no. Don't try to lump Kobe in with other players to try and mitigate his shortcomings defensively.

[Patterns]

No. Kobe Bryant's defense is starting to get underrated because of the haters here who continuously try to devalue his play.

[KF10]

I think Kobe's defense has been overrated for some time now.

But he tends to pick up the intensity in tight games or to my knowledge in 4th quarter situations though. From that time frame, Kobe's defense is very good. Probably at elite level. Most likely.

[EHL]

His D is inconsistent but great when it's there. He's actually one of the few players that can intimidate players defensively without even closing out on them, it's really quite unique to Bryant. He'll play seemingly poor fundamental D at times, it'll work most of the time buying him some energy, then he'll exert a burst of energy on D and completely shut down his opponent most often. The times it doesn't work is when he fouls too often, which is rare but happens.

And if this thread is just referring to his seasons since 2005, you can point to a few defensive stats that show he's quite elite; finished 9th in defensive win shares in 2007-2008, 9th in steals in 05-06 and 07-08, and 18th in defensive win shares last season. He was injured in 04-05 but yeah, he wasn't much of a defender that year (and he didn't get on the team so it's irrelevant). Though to be fair I don't personally take those stats very seriously to begin with because most defensive stats have far too many outliers. Observation is best for D, and his has certainly been elite based on impact.

[EHL]

Every perimeter defender over the age of 28 has always been over rated. Payton was incredibly over rated, Artest is, Kidd was and MJ (yes, I know this is blasphemy, sorry) was too.

Always count on Kobe fans to sling the mud at other players rather than take their lumps for their boy's incredibly overrated defense.

Any defender over 28 is overrated? MJ in '92 and '93? Payton in '98 and '99? Kidd in 2003? Pippen from '95-'97? Sorry, but no. Don't try to lump Kobe in with other players to try and mitigate his shortcomings defensively.

Yeah but at least he doesn't wimp out of LeBron debates knowing that Jordan was just surpassed statistically by said player this past season.

[Jordan23Forever]

Explain to me how one season (as compared to 4-6 seasons at or near the same level) = surpassed statistically. Thanks.

When Lebron puts together another 4-5 straight seasons at or near the level of the one he just had, you can start talking nonsense like that. But you don't "surpass" someone statistically by virtue of one season. BBR has MJ's '88 ahead of Lebron's '09 by a fraction of a point, btw.

[NO-KG-AI]

Explain to me how one season (as compared to 4-6 seasons at or near the same level) = surpassed statistically. Thanks.

When Lebron puts together another 4-5 straight seasons at or near the level of the one he just had, you can start talking nonsense like that. But you don't "surpass" someone statistically by virtue of one season. BBR has MJ's '88 ahead of Lebron's '09 by a fraction of a point, btw.

To be fair, every single year of Jordan's career wasn't as good individually as this one year from LeBron

Then again, that's a whole other topic.

[Jordan23Forever]

To be fair, every single year of Jordan's career wasn't as good individually as this one year from LeBron

Then again, that's a whole other topic.

He had 4 in a row equal or virtually equal (31+ PER) and another two (basically) book-ending it with 29.8/29.7 PER ('87 and '93). That's why I said that one season does not make him statistically superior; he needs about 4-5 more at or near this level.

[EHL]

Explain to me how one season (as compared to 4-6 seasons at or near the same level) = surpassed statistically. Thanks.

When Lebron puts together another 4-5 straight seasons at or near the level of the one he just had, you can start talking nonsense like that. But you don't "surpass" someone statistically by virtue of one season. BBR has MJ's '88 ahead of Lebron's '09 by a fraction of a point, btw.

Essentially those 88 and 09 seasons are identical based on margin of error, no one including myself would be talking about LeBron being "ahead" of Jordan based on a fractional difference in PER if it happened to favor LeBron. Besides, LeBron was clearly the more well rounded player (better passer and rebounder, inferior shooter), and when you include their respective postseasons it isn't even close. Granted, LeBron won't be posting 37 PER every postseason, but he has done something that Jordan never did and that's impressive.

And my "surpassing statistically" statement was clearly predicated solely on his 08-09 regular season/post season, since he has barely been in the league "4-6 years" to begin with. At the same age he's every bit the player an absolute peak, prime Jordan was, and some. That was the argument, not the length of time Jordan dominated. The fact that a player has come along that can be argued as equal/superior to Jordan for an entire postseason (and regular season) is a new and significant phenomenon. Hell, even Kobe's having a postseason better than a prime 92 Jordan. I know, it sucks to see players challenging MJ's greatness.