C's approach Grizz about 2nd pick in draft...

[sully00]

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Blair, Young, and Adrien all measured at under 6'6" that is what the **** I am talking about. Dante Cunningham who is a SF is the real big in the group going 6'7" at 227 lbs. Simpkins was 6'9" in barefeet as was Avent. Simpkins also had Michael Smith next to him at 6'9". There was a guy named Greis who was 7'2" but what the hell is the point of all this? Are really trying to say that the present Big East compares to the size and physical play that went on in the late 80's and early 90's? That isn't a debate. You think that Thabeet is the next Mutombo because his stats were simliar?

I have seen Ewing, Mutombo, Mourning, Thabeet is not in their league, even defensively, he isn't even Okafur's league. He blocks a lot of shots and he should he is 7'3", so does Sam Dalembert and I have never confused him with Mutombo.

I think the kid has come a long way in the past year, and maybe he will continue to improve but he went from fringe NBA player to a first round pick. He is 22 not 19. In this draft with its lack of size if I had a top 5 pick I would certainly entertain the idea of drafting him because of a lack of options. But I just don't see how you could be excited about the idea of trading an NBA starter for a guy who may never get there, never mind comparing him to HOF big men.

[jfs1000d]

I have been watching the Big East for 20 years. The last two years was some of the best athletic talent the league has ever had.

And, Thabeet was dominant inside at times, and almost always defensively. The guy is 7-3 athletic and has shown vast improvement in his game in a small amount of time. You ain't working with nothing here. He can start, rebound and defend in the NBA right now.

He is raw offensively and he has to learn to hold his position. Those who don't like him as a prospect are nuts.

I don't think he is a 20 ppg scorer. But, he certainly can play defensively, and he certainly has the tools to score. He just needs to play more games.

[GuyClinch]

I hope its not thabeet. Basketball is a game thats very difficult to learn for a player at an old age - irregardless of size and most foreign late learning players don't have the requisite love for the game needed. Dalambert might be closer to the upside for this guy. He is Saer Sene with 4 extra inches..

I think you guys are crazy to want to draft him. The guy has bust written all over him. Rubio OTOH might develop better then Rondo. But even if he doesn't you get out of signing Rondo to a big extension and save money in near future.

[jfs1000d]

Sully, agaisnt Providence Thabeet had 15 points, 11 rebounds and 10 blocks.

How much more dominant can he be?

I am a UConn alum, and have watched almost every game Thabeet has played. In person, he is even more impressive because he shuts down the lane off the ball.

Thabeet is a much more imposing presence than Okafor defensively. Okafor was a great college player, but even Okafor didn't have the impact on a game like Thabeet does. It's not really close. Thabeet prevents you from even attempting a shot. Look what he did to Louisville and even the game Luke Harangody has had against him. He is just so big, it's imposing.

He has strength issues and he may never develop. I cede that point and there is risk with him. But he is probably the equal of Mutombo coming out of college defensively.

This is the two time national defensive player of the year and a 1st team All-American who led his team to the final four. This isn't Patrick O'Bryant or Jason Thompson. Let's not short sell Thabeet here.

[sully00]

That is exactly my point jfs. You look at the stat line and don't realize that Providence had no effective big men what the performance mean? PC had Kale 6'8" and no offensive game and Hanke who is 6'11" but a stiff who doesn't play very much. At the PF spot they use McDermott who is 6'6" and Marshon Brooks who is a 6'5" 190 lb SG who is just plays really long. Providence relies on transition buckets and bombing away from 3. If the 3's aren't falling it is a bunch guards throwing up floaters in the lane of course he is going to have a field day blocking shots.

Point to the game against Louisville and Georgetown when he was going against some size. He also had the games against PItt and Gonazaga make me think he is only serviceable you say he isn't another O'Bryant but he wasn't as good as he was and he is older. You have to be dominant defensively for your team to play 4 on 5 offensively with you on the court.

[jfs1000d]

Sully.

He dominated a lot of teams. I was at his game against Syracuse and I saw him play from the baseline at Gampel. Absolutely dominant. He had 8 points, 17 rebounds and 7 blocks that game and absolutely stiffed Syracuse.

IN the second game against DaJuan Blair, he had 14 points and 13 rebounds.

He had 14 points and 11 rebounds against Louisiville in Freedom hall and intimidated the heck out of a great Louisville team.

He isn't a great scorer, though he managed to score 13.8 ppg. He averaged 10.8 rpg and 4.2 blocks per game. Now, the problem with his offense is its not refined. He has the foot quickness and athleticism to make those moves. He just needs game action.

Even in the final four, he scored 17 points, and when UConn went to him he scored. His struggles offensively aren't skill wise, they are he has to learn how to get position. He made incredible improvements in 60 college games. What's he going to do in 82 games in one season?

Sully, your a great poster here, but your missing the boat on how good he already is defensively. That precludes him from being a total bust. Now, at No. 2 you would like to get more of an offensive player, but in this draft, you would be nuts not to take a 7-3 guy who can impact a game defensively right away and may turn into a good offensive player.

If Durant is sitting No. 2, I take Durant. I love Blake Griffin over him. But James Harden and Ricky Rubio?

He isn't Mike Olowokandi. Thabeet figures to be a power player defensively right away. Mutombo with more athletic ability, less strength now, is a good comp.

[sully00]

I have not said he is going to be a total bust, I would probably take him in the top 5 of this draft because it is weak up top. I would not trade an asset to get into to the top 5 to do it. Don't talk to me about Syracuse they start 4 guys under 6'5". If you have watched the Big East for 20 years you know exactly what I am talking about, every scout who has ever watched him play says the same thing "how can have this size and athletic ability and have such a limited impact on the game against teams with absolutely no size to compete with."

I totally disagree with the premise that he is great defensively, I think he is a great shot blocker at the NCAA level, I think that he does an acceptable job rebounding the ball, I don't think he has had much of a chance to display his ability to defend in the low post when it has happened the results are mixed. But more importantly I think he is totally useless offensively, not just raw but limited to alley oop dunks and tip ins. This is with absolutely no one who could physically check him.

Look Greg Oden was going to change the game with his defensive ability he has proven to be average at best as NBA defender. He is two years into his 25 mil 4 year deal. Will he be a great defensive player eventually maybe but till then he can't play unless he scores and rebounds and his team is better with Pryzbillia in the game. Thabeet is not as good as Oden defensively, if he is only avg as an NBA defender how is going to get on the court if he can't score? After this rookie contract he might be worth 5 mil a year but he isn't going to be worth that over the next 4.

[Maple Green]

How about Rondo and Scal for # 2 of Memphis and Conley
and then
Ray Allen and #2 for #1, Kaman (or Sign & Trade Camby) and Al Thorton
Draft Griffin

Line Up
PG-Conley
SG-PP
SF-Thorton
PF-KG/Griffin
C Perkins/Kaman or Camby
Griffin is the insurance for KG because KG is injury prone
Kaman or Camby is the insurance for Perkins

Bench

House
Powe
Big Baby
Walker

[Avalanche]

No way the clips go for that, they are looking to unload a front court player to make room FOR Griffin, and they have already used him to promote next season

plus, we need to get away from this idea of trading Ray and Rondo for a front court guy (its come up for Amare, Bosh and now Griffin) , If we lose both of these guys we need to be getting a star in our back court

really this #2 talk is pretty obvious to me now, Danny did his job by making an initial call seeing what it would take to get it done.... and Wallace has a big mouth and spoke to someone about it, with the media finding out, we've heard nothing since and i really doubt DA will pursue it any further

If.... IIIFFFF anything were to happen i think the only way we could go is trade Rondo/Scal/TA (or a similar package) for #2/Conley and possibly Warrick, but then we would need to use our MLE on a guy like Dre Miller or Bibby, leaving us without the flexibility of using it on a front court back up.

Miller/Conley
Ray/Harden/House
Pierce/Walker
Garnett/Warrick
Perkins/Davis

still too undersized at the 5..

as i said, this was all just initial talks that will lead no where, but its the off-season, and any news (or rumor) is better to talk about then nothing

[stiles21]

I'm a Rondo fan but i can understand why you would want to trade him. Although I feel like any trade that makes Mike Conley our starting PG is a bad trade. Does he even start for the Gizz? Rondo is bigger faster stronger and smarter. Rajon and K.G also have that strange on court connection, thats not easy to find. This time last year we were in the finals, if your gonna mess up this teams chemistry you better have a sure thing superstar at that number 2 draft spot.

[GuyClinch]

I'm a Rondo fan but i can understand why you would want to trade him. Although I feel like any trade that makes Mike Conley our starting PG is a bad trade. Does he even start for the Gizz? Rondo is bigger faster stronger and smarter

Conley is a bit quicker actually. But I do agree Rondo is better. Point of the trade is your getting Conley (who is okay) and the #2 pick. That's a net upgrade in talent. Whether it helps us win right now is an open question.