Player coaches?

[daddyfivestar]

Scenario: inspired by Zo's comment that Kobe is coaching and Phil is coasting...

Phil and his 12 mil retire.

Kobe opts out (as he can this offseason).

Lakers re-sign Kobe the player for 1 mil per year.

Lakers hire Kobe to be coach for 19 mil per year.

Only 1 mil against the Laker salary cap?

Have we found a loophole?

Can't wait for the answers. Thanks in advance.

[Three34]

If you can convince the league that a rookie head coach is worth being $19 million just to coach, then dammit man, you've just depicted a piece of flawless genius.

By the way, I'm being flippant. This question crops up about once a month, albeit normally with incapacitated players like LaFrentz or whoever. And hammer frayed I'll have to break your heart here. That's about as obvious of a case of cap circumvention as you can get. So no, no freaking way.

[killbuckner]

I thought for sure this would be about derek fisher.

[Dunkenstein]

Does the league even allow player-coaches anymore? I think as long as you're being payed to play, you can't be paid to coach as well. When Jordan came back to play for the Wizards, did he have to give up his management salary? I don't think the issue is covered in the CBA, though it may be covered in the By-laws.

[daddyfivestar]

^ and here I thought Zo was onto something.

I read it somewhere in the Larry Coon last night that it actually states "no player-coaches to avoid cap" (paraphrasing).

Thanks for the reps.

[FGump]

CBA rules for many years have banned player-coaches. It would be too easy to skirt the cap if it was allowed, so you have to be paid and on the official books as doing one or the other.

[chakdaddy]

CBA rules for many years have banned player-coaches. It would be too easy to skirt the cap if it was allowed, so you have to be paid and on the official books as doing one or the other.

So Mike Dunleavy Sr. was the last of the mohicans? Even though he was more of a coach-player than player-coach...

Actually, a player/coach who is a marginal player would be more of a roster limit circumvention than a salary cap circumvention.

[FGump]

Actually I think Dunleavy was in compliance with the current rules. As I recall, he was a coach (only) who was 4-5 years out of the league, but then was signed and added to the roster as a player when the Bucks were shorthanded. Did he ever hold BOTH positions simultaneously?

In any event, whether it was when the first cap was initiated, or at a later date, at some point they banned player-coaches. You can be paid as one or the other, but not both. If a team wants a part-time player who helps coach, then that's allowed, but he is paid entirely as a player and his role as a coach is merely an informal one.

[daddyfivestar]

What about player-scout?
Player-assistant gm?
Player-trainer?

[Modern_epic]

What about player-scout?
Player-assistant gm?
Player-trainer?

There are no loopholes.

A player and a team can make the player's responsibilities whatever they mutually agree to, but any compensation paid must be allowed under the rules for player compensation, and thus counts against the cap. Is that clear enough for you?

If you ever think you've found a loophole, you are wrong. This applies even if you really do find wording that allows a for a loophole. (Though I feel quite safe in saying you will not. With no insult intended, greater minds than yours have tried and failed.) There is a provision in the CBA which essentially says "all loopholes you find in the CBA a null and void".

[Dunkenstein]

CBA rules for many years have banned player-coaches. It would be too easy to skirt the cap if it was allowed, so you have to be paid and on the official books as doing one or the other.

I asked Larry the question in an email. He responded: "I coulda swore I saw something in the CBA precluding player-coaches, but I just took a look and didn't see it (searching for "coach"). I also took a look at the '99 CBA and didn't see it there either..."

I think that as long as the player-coach takes up a roster spot and his total salary falls under a Uniform Player Contract, there is no prohibition in the CBA against player-coaches (or player-general managers for that matter). So since you say CBA rules for many years have banned player-coaches, can you find the specific citation in the CBA?

[FGump]

Nope, don't know where it is. Maybe it's a by-laws thing, I recalled it as CBA but I don't know where it would be. But I'm certain that "player-coach" is illegal; this is an issue that arose in Dallas with Avery Johnson. The Mavs front office explicitly assured me it wasn't allowed in any form. You can only wear one hat.

"as long as the player-coach takes up a roster spot and his total salary falls under a Uniform Player Contract, there is no prohibition in the CBA against player-coaches" ... He can be a player who does some coaching of other players, but he can't hold the title of coach, even under the conditions you gave.

[HammJ]

If memory serves, Tree Rollins served as player/assistant coach for Orlando in the mid-90's.

Also, Dunleavy Sr. was not the Bucks' head coach when he inked a couple of 10-day deals back in the late 80's. That was during the Frank Drebin reign in Milwaukee.

My guess is Lenny Wilkens was the last player/head coach in the NBA.