What Should the Wizards Should Do with the 5th Pick?

[McGeeNArenas]

I don't believe it for a second. Curry will be a starter on a lottery team and a bench player, possibly not even the 6th man, on a contender.

I can't believe how much people are overrating this tweener. Shooting and heart alone can't make up for his size and lack of an ideal position at the next level.

The cherry on top is saying his skillset is comparable to ELITE players like Lebron or Kobe.

Well we just disagree on all aspects of this. IMO he's not a tweener, he does not lack an ideal position. He's legit PG thru and thru. He's got good size for a PG at 6-3 180 and showed decent strength in the athletic testing.

To me his skill level is 2nd in the draft only to Ricky Rubio. Please tell me where you find his skillset lacking.

The fact that you believe he's a legit PG makes it hard to debate on the matter since I don't believe that. We'll just have to wait and see him play in the pros to see I guess.

As far as skillset compared to elite wings, besides shotting, he lacks in every other area.

[McGeeNArenas]

Before I belittle your post,

I'll go ahead and say belittle away. Please show me I don't know what I'm talking about. I've read a couple of your post and I want to read this post you were going to make.

Well if he WAS a franchise level player, that means we can build around him and he would be the player to lead us to a championship. He would DOMINATE. If you believe he's a PG, he should be on the level of Chris Paul/Daron Williams. If he's a SG, he should be on the level of Kobe or Wade. Please let me know which franchise position this man will play for us....Will he be our CP3 or Kobe?

Please tell me how you believe any part of his game translates to dominating. He can't blow by defenders, he can't shoot over them. His passing is average at best. He doesn't rebound very well. He'll be good moving without the ball, shooting open shots, and off picks.

oh and one more thing, his D will suck. He will be abused by either position. SG will punish him in the post and PG will blow past him.

I have to save your post, it's too funny......and this way if I'm wrong, I'll own up to it. But this Curry hype is WAYYYY out of hand.

[nate33]

harden's work out video. 3:20 crab dribble due to a slow first step won't cut it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf5ye0Fc ... rofilepage

Wow...that was completely unimpressive. Maybe that was the very end of a long workout, but I was hoping for more after his results at the combine.

I didn't see a lot of lift on his jumpshot. He didn't get very far above the rim on his dunks either, even on a full court break. He also seemed to need to gather himself to dunk when driving to the rim. Of course you have lots of guys who look great in workouts that can't really play, but I was hoping to see more from a guy projected in the top 5.

You know, with the beard, he looked like a bigger/stronger DeShawn Stevenson. Not sure that's worth a #5 overall. I posted a couple pages ago that it's possible he could slip and this video is making me consider it even more.

I agree that he lacks explosion, but I was pretty impressed with his basic fundamentals. He has good footwork and ball handling skills and is clearly NBA ready right now. He only missed one jumper in that entire video. Sometimes, all you really need to do is make shots. Harden can do that.

In a way, he reminds me a bit of Caron Butler. If you watch Butler play in the half-court set, he rarely does anything that wows you. He just never misses those 18-20 footers.

[WizarDynasty]

First off we are making a comparison between a 33 year old non shot blocking 6'7.75Antwon Jamison that has no post game to speak off versus a 22 year old explosive, 31 inch no step-35 inch two step, midrange jumping, shotblocking, 6'9.25 powerforward with a high motor and without a questionable background and automatically is the best defensive rebounder on the team.

The more you say about Hill the more it sounds like you're describing Chris Wilcox.

You also need to give AJ a little more credit. We're all are aware of his defensive shortcomings but to call him "over the hill" is a bit of an overstatement. The guy has been a consistent double-double machine for the past few days (can't say that about Wilcox) and AJ continues to soldier on even when it's obvious that he's tired and beat up.

Chris can't put the ball on the floor and he definitely can't create separation with his dribble and drain a jumpshot. That's way way way outside of Wilcox's skill set.

[closg00]

At-least the new DX mock has us taking Curry .....not that the mocks are worth anything.

[yungal07]

harden's work out video. 3:20 crab dribble due to a slow first step won't cut it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf5ye0Fc ... rofilepage

Wow...that was completely unimpressive. Maybe that was the very end of a long workout, but I was hoping for more after his results at the combine.

I didn't see a lot of lift on his jumpshot. He didn't get very far above the rim on his dunks either, even on a full court break. He also seemed to need to gather himself to dunk when driving to the rim. Of course you have lots of guys who look great in workouts that can't really play, but I was hoping to see more from a guy projected in the top 5.

You know, with the beard, he looked like a bigger/stronger DeShawn Stevenson. Not sure that's worth a #5 overall. I posted a couple pages ago that it's possible he could slip and this video is making me consider it even more.

I agree that he lacks explosion, but I was pretty impressed with his basic fundamentals. He has good footwork and ball handling skills and is clearly NBA ready right now. He only missed one jumper in that entire video. Sometimes, all you really need to do is make shots. Harden can do that.

In a way, he reminds me a bit of Caron Butler. If you watch Butler play in the half-court set, he rarely does anything that wows you. He just never misses those 18-20 footers.

I'm not sure what to make of the video. He obviously wasn't going full speed....maybe it's because he was working out for a team he knows is not drafting him? That being said, I agree with you Nate. The guy knows how to play basketball. He won't wow anyone with his athleticism, but it's obvious he can finish at the rim, as he dunked off two steps in drills and against Reef in the post. I figure he's going to do that throughout his career because of his size/strength and overall good ball skills.

Harden is still my guy if he's there.

[forthepeople]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaptU2Ez ... re=channel

Here is a look at the Evans Kings work out.

I still think Harden is the guy. Hopefully he slips to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlhHPYlS ... re=channel

[Dat2U]

To me it looked like that once Harden got his body moving, he moved pretty well. But his struggle is with that 1st step. It's non-existant, at least in the video. Also, it was non-existant at ASU.

I am impressed with his length though. It allows him to finish pretty easily.

I think Lyrical is onto something with the DeShawn Stevenson comparison. It's something I mentioned a week or so back. Harden has a similar build. I see Harden as a more offensively skilled version of DeShawn Stevenson. However defensively Harden may not have the quickness to stay with some of the more explosive SGs out there.

If all were looking for is an improvement over a replacement level player at the SG position. Harden can certainly do the job. I just have a hard time seeing Harden being anything more than a 12/4/3 role player in the league. He'll rebound better, handle a little better and be a better passer than DeShawn with less defense. Frankly, I'm greedy and want more from a #5 pick and honestly we should expect more. If we were drafting late lottery, Harden would make much more sense to me.

[yungal07]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaptU2Ezh2g&feature=channel

Here is a look at the Evans Kings work out.

I still think Harden is the guy. Hopefully he slips to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlhHPYlS ... re=channel

He has one fugly release on his jumpshot.

These workouts should bode well for Evans though. He doesn't have to play in a 5-on-5 setting where his lack of IQ and court awareness come into play.

[pancakes3]

I agree that he lacks explosion, but I was pretty impressed with his basic fundamentals. He has good footwork and ball handling skills and is clearly NBA ready right now. He only missed one jumper in that entire video. Sometimes, all you really need to do is make shots. Harden can do that.

In a way, he reminds me a bit of Caron Butler. If you watch Butler play in the half-court set, he rarely does anything that wows you. He just never misses those 18-20 footers.

at this point, i'm no longer impressed by harden's fundamentals. it's to be expected. i'm also no longer impressed by curry's shooting or griffin's strength. what the video does show, as LR said, was that the combine scores lied, lied, and lied some more. Harden isn't faster than Evans no matter what that stopwatch says. him draining those jumpers were to be expected because without that, he has no business in the NBA. Also, his demeanor just wasn't urgent. You figure somebody trying out for an NBA team would be killing himself even in drills. He either 1 - doesn't care enough, or 2 - was saving himself because he doesn't want to get too winded for the fast break portion. Him nailing right corner jumpers as a lefty is impressive for a regular basketball player but not for a top 5 lotto pick.

as for Jordan Hill - Wilcox is an unfair comparison. I think he has more skill than wilcox seeing as how he actually had to work for buckets whereas Wilcox was literally feeding off of Dixon's misses and fast break buckets and nothing else. I think HIll reminds me more of Ronny Turiaf - only better, more athletic. He's a serviceable power forward but should never be paid more than what Etan's making. I'm starting to think that shopping Blatche + Young for Rudy while drafting HIll wouldn't be too bad a deal, even if it does leave us some pretty crappy bench players.


EDIT:
evans doesn't look very athletic in his workout either. struggles to get up, and harden definitely beat his man a lot more consistently on the low post drill.

[Dat2U]

I personally believe Harden is a product of the Draft Express hype machine. It makes me wonder if their getting kickbacks from Harden's reps for all the love they've showed him over the year. I've never seen a relatively solid but flawed prospect get so overhyped. Also Chad Ford just loves any prospect that allows him to come see their workout. Ford appears to write all his draft columns in rose colored glasses.

I'm wondering what the teams actually think of Harden. I still believe he'll fall out of the top 5. I also just don't see EG drafting him, he's just not his type of player.

Here's my mock for the top 5 picks.

1. LAC PF Blake Griffin - this one is an absolute no brainer. The Clips will mess this up come the regular season by putting Grffin at SF though.

2. MEM C Hasheem Thabeet - They don't have the guts to draft Rubio and call his bluff. Plus the owner seems to really like Thabeet.

3. OKC PG Ricky Rubio - Chad Ford is right about one thing. GM Sam Presti is an opportunist. While Rubio is a bad fit in OKC b/c neither Westbrook or Rubio is much of a shooter, OKC will draft Rubio's rights and sell him to the highest bidder.

4. SAC PG Jonny Flynn - Sacramento will be left holding the short end of the stick. They badly want Rubio but don't want to pay the price to get him (Jason Thompson). They'll take the highest remaining pure PG on the board. Flynn probably rates higher than Jennings in their book.

5. WAS PG Stephen Curry - I'm pretty sure Curry will be the 5th pick in the draft. I don't however think it will be for the Wizards. I think Curry is the choice b/c he carries the most trade value. OKC, NY, SA & POR are probably the best bets. OKC is out of luck unless the back off wanting McGee for Rubio. NY will probably offer Mobley's insured deal for an expiring to move down a few slots. SA appears to be offering Ginobili and Portland is probably offering a hodge podge of Jerryd Bayless, Travis Outlaw & their late first for an expiring.

Harden will likely go 6th to Minny. Evans could go 7th to Golden State and Holiday has a decent shot at going 8th to NY.

[WizarDynasty]

you don't give up a player like young. You get a veteran playoff shooting guard to mentor him since he has all the gifts to be a superstar guard both physical and skill set wise. He just needs a shooting guard with a high basketball IQ to mimic and stevenson definitely isn't it.
Blatche is probably one of the best bigmen coming off the bench in the league and entering his prime. You don't trade him either. We have plenty of expiring that many teams find valuable with the free agent class coming up soon. I don't think Blatche has the physical gifts to be a starter but a quality big coming off the bench. We definitely need our powerforward defensive re bounder of the future. A 33 year old Jamison logging heavy minutes and Jamison hates banging in the paint is not going to cut it. We need a rebound er and powerforward that makes people think twice about lofting up an floater in the lane. Jamison and Blatche aren't the answer and McGee isn't close to being a powerforward. Jamison plus expiring should get us this kind of powerforward since our expiring should be very valuable for the free agent class of 2010.

[Ji]

is anyone worried about Thabeet dropping to 5?

[Kanyewest]

Don't you guys need a PG more than anything? I mean, you've got some nice players with Butler and Arenas (fingers crossed he comes back the same), and Jamison and Haywood are good supporting players. But why not slide Arenas to the SG position and get a real PG in there? That would balance out the roster tremendously (says me, as an uninformed observer).

Gilbert Arenas is a point guard IMO. Yes he scores a lot but that's the role he was cast in under the previous coaching staff. Contrary to what you read on the General Board, he's more than just a "no defense shot chucker". He's a very good playmaker when he's asked to be and he doesn't turn the ball over nearly as much as other top 10 scorers. If you read his recent quotes since the Flip Saunders hiring, he's actually looking forward to becoming more of a floor general. I personally think he can be a better scoring Chauncey Billups, although not as great of a defender (but he can still be decent enough).

Now that's not to say that Gil couldn't share the backcourt with another guy with PG skills. I have endorsed trades for guys like Kirk Hinrich but only because he would have the size to defend 2's. Pairing Arenas with a midget like Ty Lawson would be murder defensively. IMO any backcourt partner with Gil should be big enough and good enough defensively to guard quality SG's 1-on-1. Any playmaking ability they might have it just icing on the cake.

Of course there are those who would disagree, but that's my view.

Arenas wasn't exactly a pure point guard in Golden State and he had Jason Richardson in the backcourt and Antawn Jamison as well.

[AgentOvechkin08]

Dat why would the WIzards pass on a pure SG in Harden and draft a tweener in Curry (IMO he is not a "true PG)

That is just not going to happen. If Harden is there take him because he can come in and give us solid minutes at the 2 guard. He can stroke it with the best and has improved his ball handling. He is 6'5 in shoes so you really cant label him undersized.

[fishercob]

harden's work out video. 3:20 crab dribble due to a slow first step won't cut it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf5ye0Fc ... rofilepage

Wow...that was completely unimpressive. Maybe that was the very end of a long workout, but I was hoping for more after his results at the combine.

I didn't see a lot of lift on his jumpshot. He didn't get very far above the rim on his dunks either, even on a full court break. He also seemed to need to gather himself to dunk when driving to the rim. Of course you have lots of guys who look great in workouts that can't really play, but I was hoping to see more from a guy projected in the top 5.

You know, with the beard, he looked like a bigger/stronger DeShawn Stevenson. Not sure that's worth a #5 overall. I posted a couple pages ago that it's possible he could slip and this video is making me consider it even more.

I saw it quite differently actually. He seemed to get plenty above the rim on his dunks, looked strong and looked nice with his jumper. I don't see why having a tremendous amount of lift on his jumper is important (Manu doesn't) especially if he has a reasonably quick release (which he seems to).

In terms of questioning his effort/body language, I think that's just grasping at straws. That said, maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Kings. Would you, if you were him?

[Dat2U]

Dat why would the WIzards pass on a pure SG in Harden and draft a tweener in Curry (IMO he is not a "true PG)

That is just not going to happen. If Harden is there take him because he can come in and give us solid minutes at the 2 guard. He can stroke it with the best and has improved his ball handling. He is 6'5 in shoes so you really cant label him undersized.

You didn't really read my post. I said I don't see the Wizards drafting Curry to keep him.

You and others call Curry a tweener, I call him a legit PG. You say Harden is a better fit, and I may actually agree, but Curry IMO is a far superior player.

Harden moves and plays like an old man to me. He may grade out as a decent athlete but on the court its a different story.

I may be going the CCJ route here but I'd be willing to bet serious money that Curry will be the better NBA player.

That said, I don't see EG drafting either guy to keep. I just have Curry in the 5 spot b/c of his trade value.

The draft sites and us fans may think Harden has more value but Curry seems to dominate the actual rumors.

[AgentOvechkin08]

^^^ I read your post but unless the deal is REALLY good, i think we just take the best player available there which would be Harden. I hope the Ginobili trade rumor is false.

I dont think Harden plays slow, i mean he did have a pretty crappy supporting cast at ASU and lead them to a good season averaging 20 pts and 5 rebounds and 4 assists.

I would not say Curry is the far superior player. I dont know how you could say that. He is small, decently athletic, and has a ridiculous shot. Now i am not comparing him to anyone but Salim Stoudemire was the same thing (a little shorter), and he is almost out of the league. I will give though, that Curry has a great IQ, but I think Harden has a good IQ too.

[Dat2U]

^^^ I read your post but unless the deal is REALLY good, i think we just take the best player available there which would be Harden.

Here's my point. Fans, Columnists, Message boards, DX, ESPN & NBAdraft.net may believe Harden is the BPA or even worthy of the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft, but what evidence do we have that the scouts & GMs feel that way? All the rumors seem to heavily involve Curry, Evans and even DeRozan as the players teams are after. Heck, I've seen Flynn & Holiday garner as much interest around the league as Harden.

A team's overall draft board probably looks alot different than the mocks we typically see around the net. I'm sure some teams may have Harden rated pretty high but I don't think there's necessarily a consensus on Harden being the BPA when we pick. I honestly think there's a very good chance he'll be there at #5, and a solid chance he'll still be on the board when the #6 pick comes up.

[LyricalRico]

I've been trying to find updates on the condition of Amare's eye since some brought that up as a concern when it comes to potentially trading the #5 for him. Here's what I found so far:

After suffering a retina detachment that his surgeon believes has never happened to an athlete of his caliber, Stoudemire is enduring a healing process that moves in a stark contrast to how he has sped up and down the court for the Suns.

From an October poke that tore his right iris to a February strike near the same eye, Stoudemire had suffered cumulative trauma that led to the Feb. 20 surgical discovery of relatively large tears on his right eye's retina. A thick fluid under the retina must be removed for Stoudemire to heal but draining it was too risky in February, leaving Stoudemire to wait for his body to resorb the fluid and nerve cells to regenerate.

Dr. Pravin Dugel, Stoudemire's surgeon with Retinal Consultants of Arizona, was able to drain thicker pockets of fluid in Stoudemire's eye two weeks ago but there is more to wait on as Dugel follows a cautious approach to the 26-year-old's recovery. The team initially had announced that the surgery would put Stoudemire out for eight weeks, leaving some playoff hope open until Dugel ruled that out two weeks later, saying the recuperation could take months.

"It's happening slowly but it's headed in the right direction," Dugel said of the fluid resorbing. "The process is not just to let the retina be flat but the idea is to make it flat and resume his career. That bar is extremely high."

Dugel performed a similar surgery on former Coyotes player Landon Wilson after a puck struck him in the eye in 2002. Wilson is still playing in the NHL but Dugel said Wilson's torn retina and optic nerve damage was not as extensive as Stoudemire's trauma.

Stoudemire had scarring around and under the retina and blood in his eye.

"It's important for people to understand the severity of this when you have a retinal detachment that happens in a young person and one that happens this severely, it's about as serious of a condition as I can think of," Dugel said.

Dugel is seeing Stoudemire every week to two weeks and will require Stoudemire to don protective eyewear for the rest of his basketball career. Stoudemire now has 20/25 vision with glasses.

Suns General Manager Steve Kerr is in regular contact with Dugel and remains confident Stoudemire will be ready for training camp in October.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... s0522.html

Stoudemire still has not been able to run, Kerr said.

“Amare has done a nice job of following orders and staying on bed rest and allowing the remaining fluid to drain out of his eye,” the general manager said. “It’s been a longer process than we’d expected but the doctor said everything’s going really smoothly and he’s just about ready to get back out on the court and start working out again.”

Kerr said he expected Stoudemire to be ready for the start of training camp this fall.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/139091

Sounds like an extremely serious injury but all signs point to a full recovery as long as he wears goggles for the rest of his career. Man, if they could get him and Rip we'd be the "All Face Wear" team.