Olympiacos Is Interested in Marvin Williams

[KWSN-Men]

I hate to tell you guys this but right now Olympiacos might lose their starting power forward Ioannis Bourousis to the NBA. He's got a big contract offer from the Spurs and he has been putting off his meeting with Olympiacos for days now. It appears he is going to the Spurs.

So because of this the latest news in Greece was that IF Bourousis goes to the Spurs then Olympiacos is going to try to get Marvin Williams to replace him. It seems that Josh Childress has been talking to him a lot and has been asking him to come to Olympiacos and has been telling him how much he is enjoying it in Greece.

The offer being thrown around would be supposedly the same type of money being offered to Anthony Parker. That's more than Childress got. That's about 3 years $8 million net per season. Or about the same as $16 million per season in the NBA.

Sorry to give you guys this bad news about Olympiacos trying to raid your team again. But keep in mind this seems contingent on Bourousis leaving to join the Spurs. So you guys might want to keep an eye out for that. I'll keep you guys posted on the Bourousis situation.

[raleigh]

I would sincerely hope that Olympiacos learned their lesson.

Plus, this is what, the 4th or 5th free agent link to Oly?

[killbuckner]

I do have to say that Marvin's game would translate more to the international game. He would be spectacular as a PF who could step outside and kill teams on kickouts.


You would think that they would go after someone like Ben Gordon.

[theatlfan]

The ? I have here is does Chills want to ever play in the NBA again? I know that Sund wasn't entirely happy with his defection last year, but if/when Chills wanted to come back, I'm sure that Sund wouldn't hold it against him that he took a sabbatical abroad for a few years. But actively recruiting players off the team? That's an entirely different matter and might cause Sund to simply blackball Chills out of the NBA. Sure, we'd have to hold the cap hold for an indeterminate period of time, and maybe even pay him to simply not play, but it would definitely send a message to other NBA players thinking the same...

[KWSN-Men]

I do have to say that Marvin's game would translate more to the international game. He would be spectacular as a PF who could step outside and kill teams on kickouts.


You would think that they would go after someone like Ben Gordon.

They are trying to get Gordon. But both the team's power forwards might go to the NBA so that position could be of vital need. Also they can just sign the European Gordon in Rakocevic anyway and he is basically the same exact type of player as Gordon and he would cost a lot less. So actually, thinking about it, I can see how Marvin Williams, knowing Childress and everything, would be a possibility.

[killbuckner]

If Marvin went over on a 1 year deal it would cause the Hawks fits as far as capholds go. Childress and Marvin would count a combined 25 million against the cap. I think the hawks would have little choice but to renounce them in that situation and move on by using that caproom to make a move in FA.

Because of that it very well could just be negotiating from Marvin. I have said for a while that I didn't see how any teams in the NBA would offer him the kind of contract he is looking for. Because sund tends to press the RFA advantage I thought it was pretty much inevitable that Marvin took the 1 year QO. This could just be him trying to drum up some leverage.

[HMFFL]

I do have to say that Marvin's game would translate more to the international game. He would be spectacular as a PF who could step outside and kill teams on kickouts.


You would think that they would go after someone like Ben Gordon.

I agree about Marvin and the impact he would make. Ben Gordon would also do very well there and Olypiacos would greatly benefit. Other interest that have been reported are Ron Artest, Anthony Parker and some other NBA role players.

[KWSN-Men]

Unfortunate update for you guys on this topic. Bourousis refused to meet with the Olympiacos owners and turned down a massive contract offer that would be about the same an $8 million per year deal in the NBA. His agent told the owners of the club that unless they make him the highest paid player in Europe he is going to the NBA to join either the Spurs or Cavs who have both given him MLE offers.

[td00]

I could see this happening....and having that kind of number that Williams would cost you just to retain his rights could really put a damper on a big season for the Hawks next year.
They are in a tough slot. If they commit long-term to Marvin, that leaves them another year to deal with JJ and Al, and IMO seals the fate of Bibby coming back here.
And here we are still searching for that elusive PG and C that never seem to materialize. Perhaps a Ty Lawson could get up and running quickly to help us.

Rick Sund will earn his $$ this year if he can improve on last year's team.

[evildallas]

It doesn't really make sense for Marvin to go to Europe.

Reason #1, if he signs the QO, he becomes an unrestricted free agent next year giving him a lot of freedom in the Summer that teams have been saving for.

Reason #2, the QO is greater than the MLE. It is 7.355M, which is a large deal for Olympiacos or any other European team to exceed on a non-star.

Reason #3, with potential labor unrest or new CBA coming up in 2011, rumors have it that contracts guidelines will become more restrictive. Anything that keeps Marvin as a restricted free agent instead of unrestricted or locked up long term would not be in his best interest if he desires to still play in the NBA. If he wants to spend several years in Europe then my argument is moot.

Reason #4, unless I'm wrong there is still a roster spot limit on US imports. Investing in a second American that isn't a primary scoring threat would put a lot of pressure on Olympiacos to fill the primary scoring role in a competitive market for European players. The exception is Ben Gordon as he counts as British. I suppose Lynn Greer must not count as American either or they would have exceeded the limit this past season. I don't deny they'll be shopping, I just question the wisdom of buying Marvin for the team.

[KWSN-Men]

It doesn't really make sense for Marvin to go to Europe.

Reason #1, if he signs the QO, he becomes an unrestricted free agent next year giving him a lot of freedom in the Summer that teams have been saving for.

Reason #2, the QO is greater than the MLE. It is 7.355M, which is a large deal for Olympiacos or any other European team to exceed on a non-star.

Reason #3, with potential labor unrest or new CBA coming up in 2011, rumors have it that contracts guidelines will become more restrictive. Anything that keeps Marvin as a restricted free agent instead of unrestricted or locked up long term would not be in his best interest if he desires to still play in the NBA. If he wants to spend several years in Europe then my argument is moot.

Reason #4, unless I'm wrong there is still a roster spot limit on US imports. Investing in a second American that isn't a primary scoring threat would put a lot of pressure on Olympiacos to fill the primary scoring role in a competitive market for European players. The exception is Ben Gordon as he counts as British. I suppose Lynn Greer must not count as American either or they would have exceeded the limit this past season. I don't deny they'll be shopping, I just question the wisdom of buying Marvin for the team.

Lynn Greer is already out of the team. He is nowhere near good enough of a player for a team like Olympiacos. They couldn't get rid of him because his contract was so big but now he's gone for sure. Also they are talking about $16 million a year for Williams so that is quite a lot. Like I said though, if they re-sign Bourousis you guys have nothing to worry about because they don't need a power forward then.

However, the owners are going to invest 75 million more euros into the soccer club this year so that will affect the basketball club's budget. The basketball club's budget was 70 million US dollars last year, but I don't think it can be that high next year with the soccer club getting a 75 million euros increase.

[killbuckner]

dallas- the thing is that if Marvin does go over for the same Childress type of deal (3 years with a player option after every year) then I would say its absolutely guaranteed the hawks would have to renounce his rights because they would need to spend more than the MLE in FA. At that point. the Hawks would be 17 million dollars or so under the cap (depending on what they did with Bibby and Zaza) and I don't see how they could possibly be content to just use the MLE and retain the rights to Marvin. I think the team would get crucified if they had max caproom available and didn't spend more than the MLE.

Like I said, I think its probably just Marvin using the team as leverage, but if the Hawks feel he is credible about this then he does have an awful lot of leverage.

[td00]

Agree 100% will killb....this one is very intriguing and will play in Marvins' favor if the Hawks don't talk long-term with him. So far, we haven't seen the ASG step up in advance and lock a player in before he looks at other options.
Having to deal with the Bibby and Zaza slots only makes this more difficult this year. Someone earlier said a lot of $$ will need to be spent to get these 3 back in uniform here for next year. I would think more than what those 3 combined made last year (I might be reaching here as $26M probably won't be needed to retain all 3)? That might be a stretch, but Zaza is going to get a fairly good raise and Marvin's slot is similar to Bogut. You have to commit to him or risk losing him quickly.

[killbuckner]

I don't see Zaza getting a big raise. He make 4 million this year and I just can't see what team would offer him even the full MLE. I think the bigger worry for the hawks woudl be that a contending team offers him a reasonable contract and he tries for a ring. If he is going to be a backup either way- might as well be a backup with the Cavs who might be able to use a player like him. Bibby is the same worry... If the Hawks don't offer him a big contract I worry that he woudl rather just go take the MLE to play for the Lakers who badly need a PG who can nail an outside shot.

[D21]

Having to deal with the Bibby and Zaza slots only makes this more difficult this year. Someone earlier said a lot of $$ will need to be spent to get these 3 back in uniform here for next year. I would think more than what those 3 combined made last year (I might be reaching here as $26M probably won't be needed to retain all 3)? That might be a stretch, but Zaza is going to get a fairly good raise and Marvin's slot is similar to Bogut. You have to commit to him or risk losing him quickly.

That was a point in Sekou's blog too, but I disagree with it. Even if Marvin needs an increase, and same for Zaza, these two increases can be balanced with Bibby pay cut.
I don't see any team offering Zaza more than the MLE, and Bibby more than 10M at worst, certainly more 8M.
Zaza going from 4M to 5.5M makes a 1.5M increase.
Bibby at 8M makes a 7M decrease.
That's 5.5M left for other increase, so even if Marvin goes from 5.6M to 11.1M, there's no need for more money.

The only problem is if you want to keep Flip, but if Marvin is at 9M, Flip can goes from 1.5M to 3.6M, all these 4 guys making the same amount than this last season.

And if you think that their salary will increase and make a problem the next season, you only have to not trade Speedy and let him expire. It will provide 5 more millions.


Now, Olympiakos is a different problem. Even if you give Marvin the max, it will certainly start between 13.5M and 13.8M, and if Olympiakos can offer him a 16M-like contract, it's a difference. Not so much big, but still a difference, unless you appreciate the situation, the team and the role you have, and doesn't want to loose it for 2 more millions.

If Smith got 10M, I don't see the owners giving Marvin more than him, so it would likely make at least a $6M difference. And if Marvin thinks he can have a bigger role in Olympiakos than in ATL, it can be really hard to keep him.

Billy Knight was the one who picked Childress over better player, and Marvin over All-Star PGs, and now, Rick Sund is on the verge of loosing both players for nothing in only one year, just at the moment we start to forget they were chosen before the other guys.

We could say Sund can't fight this kind of money, but if Marvin walk away from ATL, the question will also be "Why only ATL loose important players for nothing ?" (it will only be "for nothing" the day we renounce their rights).

[raleigh]

That was a point in Sekou's blog too, but I disagree with it. Even if Marvin needs an increase, and same for Zaza, these two increases can be balanced with Bibby pay cut.

Agreed.

2008 Bibby + Marvin + Flip + Zaza ~ $26M
2009 Bibby (8M) + Marvin (9m) + Zaza (6) + Flip (4) ~ $27M <-- And those are 'high-end' estimates

Plus, you can easily trade Claxton/Andersen to help fill out the rest of the bench.

[killbuckner]

Think of it this way. before any of the FA's are signed the Hawks have 42 million dollars in salary. Assuming they are content to only use the MLE and BAE in FA then the hawks can probably go up to 65 million dollars. (I don't think the ASG would go right up to the luxury tax, they would want wiggle room in case the tax drops the next year which it is projected to do. (the Hawks payroll was 68 million this past year)

That leaves 23 million dollars for any of our own FA's you want to sign. and you would have to carve out of that if you want to use the BAE or MLE. (And remember anything you give to Murray must come out of the BAE or MLE)

Those are starting salaries- not the average per year. If you give Marvin a long escalating contract then the first year will be lower than the average.

[D21]

That's why I would like to see one of Marvin or Bibby being signed with a flat contract, limiting the total salaries increase, the remaining part of the increase being cover by Speedy expiring contract.

What is sad is that with these numbers, we would not be able to do a sign and trade of Childress even if we have an opportunity, or it would have to be with a team able to take his contract with cap room, ATL getting mainly a pick.

It also shows a bit that if we remain under the tax, we will always have this missing element in the rotation to push the team at the next level.

I also see that if we have traded Zaza and Speedy for Brad Miller, if Zaza gets 6M, Miller would have make nearly the same amount than both Zaza and Speedy, with the possibility to re-sign him only next summer (and not this summer like Zaza), and for a lower salary, maybe not much more than what Zaza will cost. Would be curious to know if they tried to trade for Brad Miller...

[niffoc4]

Truthfully, I'm not that worried about Marvin going to Olympiacos. I think we'll see the Hawks either pony up the cash or trade marvin in an S&T before they let him go for nothing overseas. Last year Childress got the offer and gave the Hawks the opportunity to match (which they didn't). If Marvin does the same this year, I think they do. He has a lot more room for growth than Childress, and is more important than Childress was to the Hawks. Letting Childress go last year was the right decision. Letting Marvin go (for nothing) this year would be the wrong one.

[evildallas]

If Marvin went to Greece, I think my approach would be to let Bibby walk as well and turn my attention to free agents like Sessions and Artest and hopefully still be able to reink Zaza and Flip.

Sessions/Acie
Joe/Flip/Mario
Artest/Mo Evans
Josh/Othello
Al/Zaza/Randolph

Add to that whomever we draft (both rounds), and I think we progress a little further than last year. I doubt it would ever happen, but sometimes you have to be bold. Maybe you can steal a player by being the guy willing to spend a few dollars more whenever else is playing it tight to the vest (either waiting for 2010 or just worried about the economy).