Simple Atlanta - Toronto trade

azuresou1 · Post #1 » by **azuresou1** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:14 pm

Something I posted on General Trade

Joe Johnson, Mo Evans, and the #19 for Chris Bosh and the #9.

Atlanta gets an All-Star 'big man' who's kind of soft but would allow them to shift down, as well as a #9 that they use on a PG (we'll say Flynn because I think he's amazing and could fall around there).

Toronto gets an All-Star SG, as well as a solid and efficient, if not amazing SF. Toronto uses the money it saves by not resigning Shawn Marion, Anthony Parker, and Garbajosa to sign a replacement big (maybe Boozer or Sheed?), and Pops Mensa Bonsu. They use the #19 to pick for the best talent available, maybe a SF if they want.

Atlanta:
Jonny Flynn/Marvin Williams/Josh Smith/Al Horford/Chris Bosh

Toronto:
Jose Calderon/Joe Johnson/Mo Evans/Bargnani/Boozer

Thoughts?

niffoc4 · Post #2 » by **niffoc4** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:19 pm

This only works if the Hawks are planning on dealing Josh Smith. b/c Marvin is not a 2, and Smith is not a 3. SF's can shoot outside of 5 ft... and no one wants Smith doing that. I guess Smith could play a 4 on offense and guard 3's on defense?
The value seems about right though.

Post #3 » by **dms269** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:25 pm

As you are aware now JJ is a 2010 guy.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #4 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:41 pm

This trade would obviously never happen. I think Bosh is better than Joe...but he also isn't good enough where he guarantees that your team will be competitive regardless of the supporting cast.

JoshB914 · Post #5 » by **JoshB914** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:16 pm

Bosh is better than Joe anyway AND we get to move up in the draft? Don't think Colangelo will bite on that one.

evildallas · Post #6 » by **evildallas** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:51 pm

If Toronto decides they can't resign Bosh they wouldn't be trading him for someone that they'd have to deal with resigning immediately. Don't expect Toronto to realize Bosh is gone in a week. The more likely deal for Bosh would be near the trade deadline for Josh Smith, filler, and future 1st. Toronto would get a PF under contract who might excel with a real PG and offensive system. Atlanta would get a bigger name. Here's the rub though, Bosh would have to agree to an extension and ownership would also have to ink Joe. Are the pockets deep enough here to do dual max deals? Too many ifs to get done.

deeps6x · Post #7 » by **deeps6x** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:12 am

The trade should be Bosh + Marion for JJ + Marvin.

Yes, Atlanta would win the trade based on Talent, but they might not do it because they already have their PF in Josh Smith.

I don't think Toronto can hold JJ or Bosh in 2010, so either way, they lose there. But the advantage for them doing this trade is they get a young player with potential in Marvin signed to a new deal. (Marvin and Marion would be S&T deals).

Atlanta wins because they are in a WIN NOW mode and Bosh + Marion would be a talent upgrade.

If you could mix Josh smith into the deal as well, then you would really have a blockbuster deal.

Harry10 · Post #8 » by **Harry10** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:48 am

i have been actually working on a similar trade idea for a few days now, just for fun:

ATL gives: Joe, Horford, Marvin, Speedy
ATL gets: Amare, Bosh, Posey

PHX gives: Amare
PHX gets: Horford, Marvin (SnT)

TOR gives: Bosh
TOR gets: Joe

NOR gives: Posey
NOR gets: Speedy

FA: Kidd - MLE

Draft: PG

Amare Stoudemire
Josh Smith
Chris Bosh
James Posey
Jason Kidd

but going back to the original post.... it is respectable, but i wouldn't do it for a few reasons, the main reason is because, i think the Hawks can get Bosh in a SnT with lesser talent, or just flat out sign him if he because a free agent in 2010

rak1974 · Post #9 » by **rak1974** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:12 am

i wouldn't trade Joe in a trade for Bosh unless we are getting a guard that can score back. Vince Carter or something like that. Law and Joe(S/T) for Bosh(S/T). Then Marvin Williams for Vince Carter. I would not want Bosh as our only star, he couldn't get it done in Tor. Why would we think he could get it done here. Plus JJ would never agree to a sign and trade such as this. If we get Bosh we need to pair him with JJ.
So the trade could be something like this

Tor trades Bosh Gets Smith or Horford, Law, and a future first. Thats all I would give up for Bosh. I feel like that is plenty for Bosh (maybe even more than we would have to give up) If Tor wants more then........ forget about it!!!!!

Post #10 » by **dms269** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:34 pm

If we have a team of Smith, Amare, and Bosh, I would be very happy with a defensive guard starting. I would be happy with a 3 point shooter there so our bigmen can grab those boards. I don't think we need a scoring guard if we have 3 big men who can all score in the post starting. Plus you have Kidd as a slasher who can score, then just get some 3 shooters and your set.

azuresou1 · Post #11 » by **azuresou1** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:53 pm

Ditto. if you had Smith, Amare, and Bosh, you could run the most basic frontcourt-centric offense, and other teams would know, and still wouldn't be able to stop you. People also rag on Bosh and Amare's defense, but all 3 of them are long, and Amare's pretty nasty on the help defense.

If we had Kidd, Smith, Amare, and Bosh, we could have Mario West as our starting SG, and we'd still be a 60-win team, and a Finals contender.

rak1974 · Post #12 » by **rak1974** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:22 pm

azuresou1 wrote:Ditto. if you had Smith, Amare, and Bosh, you could run the most basic frontcourt-centric offense, and other teams would know, and still wouldn't be able to stop you. People also rag on Bosh and Amare's defense, but all 3 of them are long, and Amare's pretty nasty on the help defense.

If we had Kidd, Smith, Amare, and Bosh, we could have Mario West as our starting SG, and we'd still be a 60-win team, and a Finals contender.

Re: Simple Atlanta - Toronto trade
by uga_dawgs24 on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:34 am

If we have a team of Smith, Amare, and Bosh, I would be very happy with a defensive guard starting. I would be happy with a 3 point shooter there so our bigmen can grab those boards. I don't think we need a scoring guard if we have 3 big men who can all score in the post starting. Plus you have Kidd as a slasher who can score, then just get some 3 shooters and your set.

Billy Knight is that you?

You do know there is a reason teams with balanced line-ups are the ones that are sucessfull. if not everyone would try to have a team with 10 seven footers on it. they may get a lot of rebounds, but they would get out scored almost everynight.

niffoc4 · Post #13 » by **niffoc4** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:32 pm

You're right that the average PF couldn't guard small forwards full--time, but I'm pretty sure Smith could handle it.

rak1974 · Post #14 » by **rak1974** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:40 pm

niffoc4 wrote:You're right that the average PF couldn't guard small forwards full--time, but I'm pretty sure Smith could handle it.

but smith's handle is not good enough to be effective on the Offinsive side of the ball against other SFs.

rak1974 · Post #15 » by **rak1974** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:41 pm

and if you have Amare, Smith, and Bosh who are you going to have handling the ball? the PG and SG would always get trapped.

Harry10 · Post #16 » by **Harry10** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:47 pm

rak1974 wrote:Billy Knight is that you?

You do know there is a reason teams with balanced line-ups are the ones that are sucessfull. if not everyone would try to have a team with 10 seven footers on it. they may get a lot of rebounds, but they would get out scored almost everynight.

you saying Amare and Bosh can't score??? :eek1:

Harry10 · Post #17 » by **Harry10** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:05 pm

rak1974 wrote:and if you have Amare, Smith, and Bosh who are you going to have handling the ball? the PG and SG would always get trapped.

are you joking or are you actually for real?!?..... Bosh's handles are alot better than Marvin's

rak1974 · Post #18 » by **rak1974** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:08 pm

Harry10 wrote:
rak1974 wrote:Billy Knight is that you?

You do know there is a reason teams with balanced line-ups are the ones that are sucessfull. if not everyone would try to have a team with 10 seven footers on it. they may get a lot of rebounds, but they would get out scored almost everynight.

you saying Amare and Bosh can't score???

No, I am saying that Amare, Bosh, and Smoove all play the same position. if you swapped out Smoove for Hedo or Bosh for Dirk Nowitzki then I would be ok with it. But not three PF playing at the same time and neither one of them handle the ball well. They wouldn't even get the chance to score because the Hawks would be number one in the league in the worst turn over assist ratio.

rak1974 · Post #19 » by **rak1974** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:10 pm

Harry10 wrote:
rak1974 wrote:and if you have Amare, Smith, and Bosh who are you going to have handling the ball? the PG and SG would always get trapped.

are you joking or are you actually for real?!?..... Bosh's handles are alot better than Marvin's[/quote

]

have you ever seen Bosh bringing the ball up the court. Bosh handles maybe good for a PF (and they are) but they are no-where on the level of Hendo or Dirk, or even Garnett.

Harry10 · Post #20 » by **Harry10** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:39 pm

rak1974 wrote:No, I am saying that Amare, Bosh, and Smoove all play the same position. if you swapped out Smoove for Hedo or Bosh for Dirk Nowitzki then I would be ok with it. But not three PF playing at the same time and neither one of them handle the ball well. They wouldn't even get the chance to score because the Hawks would be number one in the league in the worst turn over assist ratio.

How horrible do you think Jason Kidd and Posey would be???

if you watch basketball, you would see that they are not three Josh Smiths..... Amare has a great low post game, Bosh has a great jump shot, and Smith plays great defense. it is not like the front court is going to be composed of Smith, KMart, and Tyrus... the three guys have very different strenghts.