Phil Jackson IS the best coach ever

cfan79 · Post #1 » by **cfan79** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:37 pm

Like it or not Phil Jackson is the best NBA coach ever. He's got the most titles to his credit so he deserves the best coach title. Chicago and LA weren't winning titles until he showed up.

SonicYouth34 · Post #2 » by **SonicYouth34** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:46 pm

You call yourself a Celtics fan? Phil just walked into great teams. He didn't build them and didn't orchestrate a dynasty that resulted in 9 championships in 10 years.

TommyPoints · Post #3 » by **TommyPoints** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:56 pm

Maybe, maybe not. I think coaches get too much blame and too much credit anyway though. Doc didn't go from a horrible coach into a championship coach overnight. Good coaching helps obviously, but I think its more about special players, the team being built to win, and a little luck too.

Kefa461 · Post #4 » by **Kefa461** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:58 pm

Red quit coaching at age 48.....Phil is 64.

8-)

Datruth345 · Post #5 » by **Datruth345** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:58 pm

red was the president, gm, coach and even did the laundry

that should say enough

Banks2Pierce · Post #6 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:59 pm

I think Phil's a great coach, but the numbers don't sway the arguments. I think Horry won 4 titles, but he is not better than Bird.

I hate this best coach ever argument. If we put Jerry Sloan on the teams that Phil has coached, does he not win at least 8 titles?

2000-2002, he had Shaq, who was the most dominant player of all time when you consider his competition. I could've won the title with Shaq as my best player. Not to mention, he got great referee help in the fixing on the decade.

Jordan titles: best of all time in an era with no other great teams. Jazz were good for a few years.

Auerbach and Russell had to go through Wilt in Philly and then in LA with Jerry West.

I think it's too hard to call a greatest ever. Can't we just have a bunch of great coaches and call it a day?

Kefa461 · Post #7 » by **Kefa461** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:01 pm

cfan79 wrote:Like it or not Phil Jackson is the best NBA coach ever. He's got the most titles to his credit so he deserves the best coach title. Chicago and LA weren't winning titles until he showed up.

Russell then is the best player ever then huh ?

With a total of 16 NBA championship rings in a span of 29 years (1957–1986) as the Celtics coach, general manager, and team president, Auerbach is the most successful official in NBA history.

8-)

cfan79 · Post #8 » by **cfan79** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:01 pm

SonicYouth34 wrote:You call yourself a Celtics fan? Phil just walked into great teams. He didn't build them and didn't orchestrate a dynasty that resulted in 9 championships in 10 years.

I'm a hardcore Celtic fan, but I know when to give the devil his due. Phil won titles with two different teams who hadn't won titles for decades or not at all until he showed up.

cfan79 · Post #9 » by **cfan79** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:03 pm

Kefa461 wrote:
Russell then is the best player ever then huh ?

Yes, he's the best player ever. I'd put him over Bird, Jordan, Magic etc etc etc.

TonyMontana · Post #10 » by **TonyMontana** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:21 pm

I think they are both the greatest coaches to ever coach, Period.
I recall Kenny Smith said, there are three coaches that are and should be considered the best ever.
Wooden, Red, And Phil.
Each coach dominated its owne era its own league with whatever they had to coach with.
Look at it this way, Jordan didnt win a chip until his 7 year WITH Phil, Shaq didnt win until he came to LA and he won his first title with Phil and imagine 2 Superstars who dispised each other off the court won a three peat.
Props to both coaches for their achievements, and I can really see anything that seperates these two coaches other than one has one more ring than the other.

cfan79 · Post #11 » by **cfan79** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:29 pm

I don't like Phil Jackson, but I think that Phil deserves respect for dealing with so many attitudes during a chaotic time filled with trade rumors and free agency. Back in the old days Celtics used to teach their replacements. Nowadays there is so much turnover even when it comes to most superstars. Its a rarity that players stay with the same team for their whole career.

Triple M · Post #12 » by **Triple M** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:13 pm

Phil Jackson is a great coach mainly because he knows how to develope a bench behind his all world players. Guys like Ariza, Walton, and Farmer are much better under a coach like PJ who got the most out of them. While I still think arguments can be made for other coaches especially if we are focusing on aspects that are in game but at the same time winning the most championships at the Pro level is quite a feat. Red's legacy to the game goes beyond just winning 9 titles as a head coach so we shouldn't feel the need to down play what Jackson has acomplised.

spf211 · Post #13 » by **spf211** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:23 pm

cfan79 wrote:I'm a hardcore Celtic fan, but I know when to give the devil his due. Phil won titles with two different teams who hadn't won titles for decades or not at all until he showed up.

Two different teams who both just, oh, happened to have the best player in the NBA on them -- and for the Lakers, arguably the two best players in the league.

Red Auerbach coached a dynasty and then constructed teams again in the 1970s and 1980s to win multiple titles.

There's simply no comparison. Phil achieved what any good coach should have achieved with his teams. I'd argue given the talent Doc Rivers would perform the same way with both the Bulls and the Lakers.

Giving Jackson props for succeeding where the likes of Doug Collins and Del Harris failed is like giving a Gold Medal to Michael Phelps at the Special Olympics.

gocelts · Post #14 » by **gocelts** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:30 pm

Please post that crap on the Lakers board where it belongs.

TonyMontana · Post #15 » by **TonyMontana** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:59 pm

spf211 wrote:
Two different teams who both just, oh, happened to have the best player in the NBA on them -- and for the Lakers, arguably the two best players in the league.

So what? Did those two players ever achieve anything other than an early exit from the playoffs or the losing in the finals?

spf211 wrote:Red Auerbach coached a dynasty and then constructed teams again in the 1970s and 1980s to win multiple titles.

One thing I dont do unlike a lot of people is to discredit legendary athletes and coachs for their accomplishments. I wasnt around when Red won his first title or the other ones that followed, so I have not right to address something that I have no knowledge about and Im not about to sit on the internet and comeup with what the majority of people thought about Red and his accomplishments so all I can say is props to him since according to what history has shown he was a great coach and he accomplished alot.

Now I have reed a lot on his achievements and why he was so successful, but again I only address what I know not what I reed.

spf211 wrote:There's simply no comparison. Phil achieved what any good coach should have achieved with his teams. I'd argue given the talent Doc Rivers would perform the same way with both the Bulls and the Lakers.

Sure then why didnt he win without Ray and K.G Posey etc.
You think its easy to build a team with even if that team is stacked with two or three allstars, if thats the case then Doc isnt a good coach either. Do you agree or disagree?
If he is then why has he lost so many years before the got Ray and K.G and his supporting cast? You argument only makes your team and your coach look bad since in fact you should give Doc props for being able to put these three future H.O.F together and build a chemistry and play 82 lus games and make it to the playoffs and then the finals. SO DID DOC GET A HAND OUT. Does he deserve this title or was it givin to him by the talent he recieved, or was he a bad coach and couldnt win until he got hand outs???? See what I mean?

spf211 wrote:Giving Jackson props for succeeding where the likes of Doug Collins and Del Harris failed is like giving a Gold Medal to Michael Phelps at the Special Olympics.

Actually Doug Collins is a very good coach.......... and thank you for throwing dirt bag Del Harris in the mix, Del Harris couldnt punch his way out of a paper bag nevertheless coach the Lakers.

Celts17Pride · Post #16 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:04 am

If I had Kobe, Shaq & Jordan I would probably win 4-5 championships as an NBA coach. It wouldn't surprise me if Jackson left for a few years then coached LeBron when his team is great. The title of this post is laughable. Sorry cfan79.

Celts17Pride · Post #17 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:07 am

cfan79 wrote:
SonicYouth34 wrote:You call yourself a Celtics fan? Phil just walked into great teams. He didn't build them and didn't orchestrate a dynasty that resulted in 9 championships in 10 years.

I'm a hardcore Celtic fan, but I know when to give the devil his due. Phil won titles with two different teams who hadn't won titles for decades or not at all until he showed up.

You mean until MJ, Shaq & Kobe showed up.

If he was really a great coach he would have stayed with the Bulls after MJ left and won 10 titles with them. Instead he left to go to LA with Kobe & Shaq. Red built his teams and didn't leave the first sign of trouble.

Dave_From_NB · Post #18 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:11 am

Coaching is a funny business. Last year Doc Rivers outcoaches Jackson, the final straw being the biggest blowout in the history of the league finals. This year Jackson is up against Brain Fart Gundy, and all of a sudden he's a great coach again.

TonyMontana · Post #19 » by **TonyMontana** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:03 am

Dave_From_NB wrote:Coaching is a funny business. Last year Doc Rivers outcoaches Jackson, the final straw being the biggest blowout in the history of the league finals. This year Jackson is up against Brain Fart Gundy, and all of a sudden he's a great coach again.

Wait wait, hold on..............
How did he out coach P.J?

So according to you and everybody else here Doc is a great coach, I happen to disagree. I think he couldnt win JACK without P.P K.G Ray Posey and his supporting cast.

I say he was handed a championship. Agree or disagree.
In fact he is not even an above average coach, he's career W-L% is .535 thats it. In fact if he didnt win a title he would've been around .450% it all depended on where the Cs wouldve finished last year. But yet he won his % went up since he was .805 last year.
Every year before he coached he had a losing season except last year and it was handed to him in a platter.

Agree???

dsorc · Post #20 » by **dsorc** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:07 am

TonyMontana wrote:
Dave_From_NB wrote:Coaching is a funny business. Last year Doc Rivers outcoaches Jackson, the final straw being the biggest blowout in the history of the league finals. This year Jackson is up against Brain Fart Gundy, and all of a sudden he's a great coach again.

Wait wait, hold on..............

So according to you and everybody else here Doc is a great coach, I happen to disagree. I think he couldnt win JACK without P.P K.G Ray Posey and his supporting cast.

I say he was handed a championship. Agree or disagree.
In fact he is not even an above average coach, he's career W-L% is 535, thats it.
Every year before he coached he had a losing season except last year and it was handed to him in a platter.

Agree???

I personally agree. I value Tom Thibodeau and what he has done for the defense more than what Doc has done. Doc is good handling the egoes but I wouldn't call him a great coach.