The What Should We Do With the 5th Pick II: IBJ Edition

[Donkey McDonkerton]

I've been trying to tell you guys that WizDnasty a spambot or terminator or SOMETHING! The bot just spews garbage out about basketball related (kinda) stuff.

[dobrojim]

not sure why I read it (entertainment value?)

but DMac's lockdown perimeter defense? Wow. I like DMac
about as much as anyone, but seriously, lockdown perimeter
defense and he's our best defensive rebounder!?!?

I did not know that as a famous Nebraskan once said.

[closg00]

Another reason why Curry is shooting up the charts, character.

* Curry has just one tattoo: the letters TTC and "-30-" on his wrist. TTC is a Davidson motto that stands for "Trust Commitment Care," while 30 is Curry's number. Of course, -30- also means the end of a newspaper story, which I guess Curry wasn't referring to. He also said he would never become a tatted-up NBA star.

"I'd go home, my mom would slap me around," he said. "Can't do that."

From the Post.

[Rafael122]

I'm warming to Curry. I still think he's a better version of Juan Dixon but I'm warming to him. He wouldn't be a bad pick, at least we'd get someone who would be covered on ESPN and stuff.

[DCZards]

I've followed Earl Clark for three years at Louisville, watched him go from being a big guard to a F/C in college. I've seen maybe 15 games live, including against some very good competition, and dozens on TV. I've seen him destroy Blake Griffin, Jordan Hill, and the Stanford twins -- and I've seen him abused by randoms at Michigan State and Hansborough.

He will be a bust if people expect him to play SF. He has the Blatche problem -- his body vaguely remembers skills that it's outgrown, and his mind isn't disciplined enough to control things. He doesn't have the acumen to be a distributor, he doesn't have the handle to bring the ball up the court. He should not be taking three pointers.

He's 6 feet f'in 9, with reach to the heavens, and needs to play like it. He has all the physical talent in the world. He has very good hands, can catch the ball in traffic. He has an unbelievable stride, a huge asset in a drop step and other post moves. He's has a strong base and is extremely agile.

If he goes to a team that wants him to play PF, there is a very good chance that he will succeed. His ceiling is Bosh level, a bit less reliable on offense, a bit better on the defensive end. He could end up like Outlaw, or Odom. He could also end up like Rodney White or Marcus Haislip.

He needs to go to the Bobcats at #13 and spend some time under Larry Brown.

* Disclaimer: In no way am I suggesting drafting Earl Clark with the #5. I do not support that, and would not be happy with that development, should it occur.

Thanks, Fugop, for an insightful look at EC....based on a lot of exposure to him. As a Big East/G'town fan and someone with family in the NJ area Clark grew up in, I rooted hard for EC...when he wasn't playing G'Town of course. I just wasn't sure what EC would show up. Criticism of Clark playing disinterested at times are on the money, imo. And I didn't see of lot of toughness for a guy his size. It's interesting that he came to the Ville as a guard. It explains why he spent so much time on the perimeter in college. That's got to change at the next level.

I agree that EC's got the physical tools to be a player. With the right team...maybe it's the Bobcats...I can see him developing into a pretty good pro.

[Rafael122]

According to Ford, Curry's ceiling is 7 (Golden State) and the earliest he could get picked would be 3, if not at 5.

Also from Ford's report today is that doctor's cant find Blair's ACL and MCL MRIs. That's messed up. That potentially could cost him millions of dollars.

[Ruzious]

I've followed Earl Clark for three years at Louisville, watched him go from being a big guard to a F/C in college. I've seen maybe 15 games live, including against some very good competition, and dozens on TV. I've seen him destroy Blake Griffin, Jordan Hill, and the Stanford twins -- and I've seen him abused by randoms at Michigan State and Hansborough.

He will be a bust if people expect him to play SF. He has the Blatche problem -- his body vaguely remembers skills that it's outgrown, and his mind isn't disciplined enough to control things. He doesn't have the acumen to be a distributor, he doesn't have the handle to bring the ball up the court. He should not be taking three pointers.

He's 6 feet f'in 9, with reach to the heavens, and needs to play like it. He has all the physical talent in the world. He has very good hands, can catch the ball in traffic. He has an unbelievable stride, a huge asset in a drop step and other post moves. He's has a strong base and is extremely agile.

If he goes to a team that wants him to play PF, there is a very good chance that he will succeed. His ceiling is Bosh level, a bit less reliable on offense, a bit better on the defensive end. He could end up like Outlaw, or Odom. He could also end up like Rodney White or Marcus Haislip.

He needs to go to the Bobcats at #13 and spend some time under Larry Brown.

* Disclaimer: In no way am I suggesting drafting Earl Clark with the #5. I do not support that, and would not be happy with that development, should it occur.

Nice post but I come to the opposite conclusion. You didn't mention the Louisville v Kentucky game - when he played against a true PF in Patrick Patterson - and was physically manhandled. I think the only way Clark becomes an NBA standout is to make it at the 3. He's just not physically and mentally tough enough to play inside. And he has perimeter skills. They just need improvement. He'd have a great physical advantage if he gets comfortable at the 3.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I don't know enough from having watched Clark, but the player I'm reminded of having read fugop's, DCZard's, and Ruzious' latest is Terrance Morris.

Morris didn't pan out in the NBA but he's had a lot of success at abroad.

[WizarDynasty]

Morris never had an explosive first step to create his own shot as a small forward and he never had the power to create an advantage working in the post.
Clark has an explosive first step and the ability to go the rim with both hands. Basically Clark's explosive first step and ball handling ability are what make him head and shoulders above Morris.

[fugop]

Clark is a shutdown perimeter defender on defense. He forces a team to transform their entire game strategy because of his length, agility, and defensive awareness.

Clark was able to key the Cardinals extended pressure defense very effectively. But he's not a good man-defender on the perimeter. We aren't going to press in the NBA (see:Pitino/Celtics), so I'm not sure how his college performance will translate to the league.

On offense, his explosive first step allows him to beat smaller defender because if they don't play close up on him, he buries the jumper because he can easily shoot over them with his height and standing reach, most perimeter defender won't be able to match his standing reach of 9'1.

Clark was called for a travel on his "explosive first step" about 40% of the time. His step was quicker than his dribble, which is an unfortunate problem. It started showing midway through his sophomore year, and he hadn't fixed it by the end of his junior year.

He's slow to get his perimeter shot off, though it obviously wasn't blocked very often. He could take guys like Dante Cunningham out to the perimeter, but his shot was too erratic (sometimes a thing of beauty, sometimes a series of bricks) to be a reliable weapon.

If he had a slow first step like Harden, then smaller defenders could crowd him and force him to put the ball on floor and easily recover because of his slow first step. Clark has big game time experience in a disciplined offensive system where he distributed to other players.

You have obviously never watched Pitino's offense. It was not disciplined, it thrived on streaks derived from defensive pressure.

Clark fits the wizards perfectly because the wizards best defensive rebounder on the floor most of the time last year was McGuire and Haywood and Blatche are both below average defensive rebounders. Haywood excels in offensive rebounding. Harden, Curry, and Evans will not give you the what dmac gives you in thirty minutes and if you take McGuire minutes and give them to Harden all teh stats that McGuire gives on defense will be completely gone and no one on the roster will make up for it. Maybe Haywood might get one or two blocks but all of mcguire defensive rebounding, blocked shots, and lockdown perimeter defense against the opposing teams best defender will be gone when we give his minutes ot Harden, curry, or evans.
Clark gives you even more McGuire production on defense and huge mismatch potential on offense.

You lost me a bit there, but the Cardinal's best rebounder was Terrance Williams, who is a 6'6" guard. He was far and away better than Clark. Clark was often out of position to crash the boards (by design), and relied a lot on his athleticism and length, rather than fundamentals.

Clark's ability to attack the rim is >>> than McGuires. Clark's jumpshot, and strength when taking it rim are better than McGuires. McGuire's reach is 8'8 while clarks is 9'1. Almost a five inch difference when both players have their hands extended straight in the sky. 9'1 gives almost any offensive perimeter player problems while 8'8 is the average standing reach of most perimeter defenders and offensive players are used to shooting against. Clark has a defensive reputation and prides himself on defense. He is michael jordan's scottie pippen.

McGuire has a much better handle than Clark. Clark had 119 turnovers last year. A 1:1 to/assist ratio. He dribbled the ball off his foot, traveled, and made bad passes routinely. He's a high risk/high reward player.

All that said, I think Clark and Williams will both be very good pros. Dat and others can look at their numbers and question their offensive efficiency -- with good reason -- but unless you watched the Cards regularly, you wouldn't realize just how bad their guards were on the offensive side of the ball. None of them could drive, pass, even bring the ball up the court half the time. They could shoot and play defense -- they could hound opposing point guards in a way I've never seen before, Knowles and McGee in particular.

All of the offense ran through Williams and Clark. And, despite being incredibly versatile forwards, they weren't good enough to consistently run an efficient offense. If you'd put a guy like Ty Lawson on Louisville, that team would have been epic.

I think Clark will find a home in the league, and will end up as a very good power forward. He will be great on the weak side, and does have the quicks and length to stay with the power forwards on the perimeter. The instinct to play him as a big 3 is understandable, but I think it's going to (Please Use More Appropriate Word) his transition to the league, just like it has with Blatche. They have similar mental issues, and similar skills -- Blatche is a bit longer, a bit less explosive.

Williams is also hard to judge. He's sort of the inverse of Harden, athletically -- though he measured out well, his athleticism is so apparent on every play that even similar players (by the numbers) look like stiffs in comparison. He would abuse guys like Cunningham and Paul Harris on the boards, out-physical Sam Young. He could easily be a tougher be Andre Iguodala, or Gerald Wallace. He could also be a worse shooting Reece Gaines, unfortunately.

I should reiterate that I like both of these guys. They would both add toughness and athleticism to the roster. But both are far from sure things. I wouldn't be surprised if either ended up performing extremely well for a playoff team.

[Mr. Grundle]

Earl Clark = Marvin Williams....except he's even softer. Marvin Williams is probably his ceiling. He might be a decent player some day but he's a horrible fit for the Wiz. The last thing we need is another tall lanky guy with "potential" who plays soft and wants to be a guard.

[WizarDynasty]

apparently you guys really don't know how good marvin williams really is lmao. Got alot to learn. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC5aLzd2HkE

[Kanyewest]

Yes because having a highlight reel indicates how good of a player you are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hufYu-nq8M

[miller31time]

Yes because having a highlight reel indicates how good of a player you are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hufYu-nq8M

WOW. His handles are amazing for a guy that big. And he just explodes to the rim. He defense with so much energy, too!

Get this guy on the Wizards!!!

[hands11]

Wow...you guys are really having fun this off season. On the one hand, you could draft a nice prospect at 5. On the other, anything past Griffin seems to be a crap shoot. I think that's also why you guys are contemplating trading for a vet. The other problem is you only have a couple of sure things on the team because no one knows what Gil nor Haywood will be like for a full season. Either way, I think this is going to be a critical season for the Wiz. If they don't get deep into the playoffs, I think there will be changes coming en masse next year. Good Luck.

no one knows what Gil nor Haywood will be like for a full season.


?

I think we know what we will get from Haywood and we know what we will get from GA as long as he is one the court....which is looking less and less like a worry in my book.

I really see little to worry about next season. At least any more then any other team has to worry. We have way more upside chance then downside risk.

What really would have caused us all nightmaires is if Abe was anal about the cap. He isn't.
If we didn't have a good head coach... we do.
If we didn't have a vet post player healty.. we do
If we didn't have a starting PG who will pass the ball.. we will

Only think that leaves up really venerable is what happens if we don't have a PG again. We simply need to be confident that we have someone who can come in an play PG if GA misses a few games or worse.

[doclinkin]

MIke Lee:

We only got to see the last 15 or so minutes of the workout, and it was pretty intense. Curry, Jennings, Flynn and A.J. Price ran three-on-three with N.C. State forward Brandon Costner and Clemson center Raymond Sykes.

The first thing I noticed was that Curry's jumper really was pure like Artisian water. He dropped the first three shots I saw him take -- a bank shot, a three-pointer and a pull-up jumper in transition -- and I asked Ernie Grunfeld if missed any shots. Ernie smiled and said, "Yes."

Then, the next drill came and the players were running two-man fast breaks with the trailer taking six shots. Flynn was feeding Curry and Curry missed his first five shots before making the last one. That's when I realized he was human, or just a smidge exhausted. But every shot he put up looked good at the release.

When the Wizards met Curry in Chicago, he wowed them in the interview from what I hear. Curry is probably the most NBA ready of the three point guards at Verizon Center that are expected to go in the lottery. He seems grounded and has a great basketball IQ (At one point, Wizards Coach Flip Saunders shouted up toward Grunfeld and tapped his right temple, which I assumed was a signal that Curry was pretty smart.

Huh. Maybe the kid has a chance to be drafted by the Wiz and stick.

I also found out that the Wizards will bring in Arizona forward Jordan Hill for an individual workout on Thursday. Hill will likely be the last big name vying for that No. 5 spot coming to Washington before the June 25 draft.

Then again, maybe not.

But it sounds at least like this was the most spirited workout that the team has run. Flip really hands-on and involved. He was a point himself back in the wayback machine. Guard play is really important to him.

Nice to see Stef get up for the slam in the workout vid.

[pancakes3]

Earl Clark = Marvin Williams....except he's even softer. Marvin Williams is probably his ceiling. He might be a decent player some day but he's a horrible fit for the Wiz. The last thing we need is another tall lanky guy with "potential" who plays soft and wants to be a guard.

marvin williams came into the league with way more perimeter skills than earl clark especially in terms of ball handling or shooting. earl's just not skilled enough to cut it on the perimeter and doesn't have the mindset to mix it up down low. however, if he gets his attitude right, learns his role, and applies his athleticism he could have a future as an Antonio Davis or Brian Grant type. However, i don't have very high hopes of that panning out for him.

ps, i was running the dumbers of guys 6'9 who shot >.500 from the field and <.700 from the FT line and earl clark's max/highest/through the roof expectation is... James Worthy. Maybe the suns are looking into him to fill that Shawn Marion role.

[hands11]

All I know is for someone who doesn't know anything, I've guessed a lot of stuff right over the years - lol. It's nice to see so many people paying Curry his props. Who knows if we will draft him or make a package deal but at least most the people here are on the same page with what he offers and what this team needs. I said from the beginning our weakest link is a back up passing PG who can nail a 3 ball on a catch and pop and Curry can do that. I'd be happy if we got one in FA or in a pick trade but our options are somewhat limited because of how many people we have signed. But the kid seems mature and has a winning attitude.

You never really know who is worth a top 5 pick. It's a crap shoot. Hell, look where GA was drafted.

I wouldn't be totally shocked if we traded a young player but I would be surprised. I think we would trade DS and James if we could but I doubt we can. Maybe James but no one is going to take DS off a back injury.

I remember the first time I posted about Curry. Most here were still dreaming of us getting BG and Curry was at like 18th. Now DX has us taking him. It would be a laugh to go back and see who the posters were who said I was an idiot for even mentioning him. I'm sure it was more then one of our main posters. LOL. Now read the board. Most are drinking the koolaid.

I think it's your gift with words and natural charisma, and verily your ubiquity. Why, not a day goes by that I actually think: that hands, he sure knows a ton about that Stephen Curry kid. Gosh you're smart You can accidentally convince fence-sitters-- or even dedicated doubters-- with your enthusiasm and gift of gab. It's a curse really, since it means you got to be right all the time otherwise you may get as doubted as you were touted, simply because your skill with an adjective happened to lead a mess of other lemmings off the same cliff you were dancing on.

Truly, it's a dangerous tool to have intelligence like yours. Yep, when folks thing 'hands' they're bound to think 'dangerous' and also 'tool'. -.

ubiquity ?

I guess all the shinny words in the world can't buy you basketball prediction instinct guessing ability.

As for my lemmings as you call them. Not a wet fur in the bunch.

[pancakes3]

But it sounds at least like this was the most spirited workout that the team has run. Flip really hands-on and involved. He was a point himself back in the wayback machine. Guard play is really important to him.

ball-pounding, creative point guards specifically. he's never really had legitimate talent (or wanted legitimate talent?) at shooting guard - frank hoiberg, trenton hassell, anthony peeler... except for the two ill-fated seasons where he played Sprewell.

[P'Oed]

All I know is for someone who doesn't know anything, I've guessed a lot of stuff right over the years - lol. It's nice to see so many people paying Curry his props. Who knows if we will draft him or make a package deal but at least most the people here are on the same page with what he offers and what this team needs. I said from the beginning our weakest link is a back up passing PG who can nail a 3 ball on a catch and pop and Curry can do that. I'd be happy if we got one in FA or in a pick trade but our options are somewhat limited because of how many people we have signed. But the kid seems mature and has a winning attitude.

You never really know who is worth a top 5 pick. It's a crap shoot. Hell, look where GA was drafted.

I wouldn't be totally shocked if we traded a young player but I would be surprised. I think we would trade DS and James if we could but I doubt we can. Maybe James but no one is going to take DS off a back injury.

I remember the first time I posted about Curry. Most here were still dreaming of us getting BG and Curry was at like 18th. Now DX has us taking him. It would be a laugh to go back and see who the posters were who said I was an idiot for even mentioning him. I'm sure it was more then one of our main posters. LOL. Now read the board. Most are drinking the koolaid.

I think it's your gift with words and natural charisma, and verily your ubiquity. Why, not a day goes by that I actually think: that hands, he sure knows a ton about that Stephen Curry kid. Gosh you're smart You can accidentally convince fence-sitters-- or even dedicated doubters-- with your enthusiasm and gift of gab. It's a curse really, since it means you got to be right all the time otherwise you may get as doubted as you were touted, simply because your skill with an adjective happened to lead a mess of other lemmings off the same cliff you were dancing on.

Truly, it's a dangerous tool to have intelligence like yours. Yep, when folks thing 'hands' they're bound to think 'dangerous' and also 'tool'. -.

ubiquity ?

I guess all the shinny words in the world can't buy you basketball prediction instinct guessing ability.

As for my lemmings as you call them. Not a wet fur in the bunch.

rispickulous trapeezio

see y'all uns, I can use them big words too, yuck yuck yuck