Bird's vision and this draft

8305 · Post #1 » by **8305** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:27 am

A while back Bird, Magic, Lebron and Carmelo did a kind of combined interview for SI. In that interview I remember Bird talking about a team of the future that would at times play a unit comprised of five guys all about 6'8" who could all pass, shoot, defend and rebound. I think the interview occured after drafting Granger but before drafting Williams, White and Rush. Rush and Granger fit the description, Williams and White did at least in theory. This vision of a team could explain liking Rush better than Bayless last year.

So, any validity to this theory? Does it lend any insight to what the Pacer draft board looks like for this year?

Crossova21 · Post #2 » by **Crossova21** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:40 am

Welcome to Indy Earl Clark!!!

Post #3 » by **Grang33r** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:12 am

I do remember hearing something like that. I know i've heard Bird mention several times that he's very high on work ethic and basketball IQ. He also likes older, more mature players.... Hibbert (senior), Rush was a junior but 22 years old, Granger (senior). A few misses, like Williams was a freshman. I gotta think they will re-main with that tactic which is why i truly think Maynor or Clark will be Pacers come draft night.

Post #4 » by **PR07** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:14 am

James Johnson fits that criteria, as does Tyreke Evans to an extent.

Post #5 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:24 am

It's a very vague description. Almost everyone other than Spud Webb and Roy Hibbert fit that description. James White also had no handles and couldn't shoot. Shawne Williams couldn't pass or defend.

Granger's about the only guy that's fit that description relatively well, but he doesn't pass a whole lot. Not that I'm calling him a ball hog, but he just doesn't pass a whole lot.

freeman · Post #6 » by **freeman** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:12 am

A quick, 6'-8" point guard would be nice in some ways, but not a 6'-8" center. Imagine what it would be like guarding Thabeet and Yao Ming.

The very first guy that came to my mind was Demarre Carroll.
Til now, i really am not that convinved about Clark's work ethic, and with the possibility of him developing into another Josh Smith. I still see him as an sf, and it could be the best suited position for him.
I believe we could find one of those rare pieces in next year's draft.

Donerik · Post #7 » by **Donerik** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:27 am

Isn't DeJuan Blair a 6'7" center(in shoes)?

So if we draft him and sign shawne livingston then I'd be convinced this was happening...

Post #8 » by **Grang33r** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:40 am

A reporter asked Blair if he's 6'7 and Blair said "no, i'm 6'6". The audio is on pacers.com.

chatard5 · Post #9 » by **chatard5** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:13 am

A 6'8 PG? Hmmm. A 6'8 Center? Hmmm. I think some1 mentioned something about age. It seems like we get either real young guys or seniors--most of the time the older guys.

8305 · Post #10 » by **8305** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:57 pm

The criteria for the most successful draft picks over the last 10 years is mature players who have not raised any character/work ethic red flags. Couple that with the desire to accumulate long, athletic, multi-skilled players and where does that leave you in this draft?

I like

Jeff Teague (long and strong enough to defend the pg position effectively, good off the dribble, fits our offense)
Sam Young (can do alot of things like shoot, rebound, defend) on the Pacers I could see him backing up Granger and playing the 4 when we play small.
Jonas Jerebko (only have the Draftexpress scouting report to go by) but sounds like the long jack of all trades type player

All of these guys project to improve us defensively.

greenway84 · Post #11 » by **greenway84** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:36 pm

Well if this was Birds vision then he took a huge step backwards when he drafted Hibbert. LOL. I would be happy with Clark. I would like to buy a late first round pick as well. Go after Sam Young. The only way I would want to draft a PG is with a pick obtained by trading Ford. Not with number 13. So i know I'm asking for a lot this Christmas in June. But i would be a happy boy if We could do those three things. LOL. Clark, Young, and either Teague or Maynor through a trade would leave me very happy.

8305 · Post #12 » by **8305** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:35 pm

I'm not that high on Clark. I actually like Young better. From the Pacers perspective if either is going to get meaningful minutes it would have to be at the 4. That means for either of them a lot of banging against bigger guys. Young even though he is smaller brings an element of toughness that I have never seen in Clark.

Post #13 » by **Grang33r** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:57 pm

8305 - First off, i want to welcome you to this forum. It's nice to see new people around and you are like fresh air. Seems like like realgm got a hell of a addition on draft time. lol

Anyways, two things of note IMO

1. I think you are very underrating Clark. I think he's a very good basketball player but maybe not the best fit for the Pacers thus i think we should look elsewhere but there's no way Sam Young is better then him. Clark comes from one of the nations top defenses. He's one of the hardest workers in college basketball and a good shooter. I don't think anyone really knows the limitations that Clark or even Terrance Williams have offensively because of the system they played in.

2. I've also heard good things about Jonas Jerebko and even outside of Draftexpress. However, for the Pacers viewpoint, i don't like the idea of picking him up. We already have two guys in Europe right now. Lorbek might come over this summer, or might stay, who knows if we can match the money he's getting. Picking Euros was a fad for Bird early on, as he loved to go overseas and check games and prospects out, but seems to me rest of the NBA has out did him in viewing prospects. With 2 guys overseas with our rights, i don't see the Pacers picking a 3rd and letting him stay in Europe.

fienX420 · Post #14 » by **fienX420** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:22 pm

NBA.com has a good video up of Terrence Williams being tutored by Gary Payton. 6'6" PG - just needs to work on the shot.

8305 · Post #15 » by **8305** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:48 pm

Grang33r wrote:8305 - First off, i want to welcome you to this forum. It's nice to see new people around and you are like fresh air. Seems like like realgm got a hell of a addition on draft time. lol

Anyways, two things of note IMO

1. I think you are very underrating Clark. I think he's a very good basketball player but maybe not the best fit for the Pacers thus i think we should look elsewhere but there's no way Sam Young is better then him. Clark comes from one of the nations top defenses. He's one of the hardest workers in college basketball and a good shooter. I don't think anyone really knows the limitations that Clark or even Terrance Williams have offensively because of the system they played in

2. I've also heard good things about Jonas Jerebko and even outside of Draftexpress. However, for the Pacers viewpoint, i don't like the idea of picking him up. We already have two guys in Europe right now. Lorbek might come over this summer, or might stay, who knows if we can match the money he's getting. Picking Euros was a fad for Bird early on, as he loved to go overseas and check games and prospects out, but seems to me rest of the NBA has out did him in viewing prospects. With 2 guys overseas with our rights, i don't see the Pacers picking a 3rd and letting him stay in Europe.

You may be right about Clark. I'm going off a couple of things 1. A Jason Whitlock article where he talked about Louisville being punked by Notre Dame because Louisville having no who could deal with Harangody's toughness. 2. The MSU NCAA game. Louisville sat in a 2/3 zone and had no answer for a Big Ten (offensively challenged) basketball team. Ever since then I've questioned any scouting accounts of Williams or Clark being exceptional defensive players.

As to Young I confess to being biased. Just enjoy watching him play. Probably a legitmate question just how much of his college game moves with him to NBA. The more I've watched the evidence that I think is overlooked by NBA guys is how much someone improves in college. In comparing Young and Clark who's game evolved more during his college career and how much does that speak to work ethic?

Not sure if you drafted Jerebko he would be left in Europe.

Thanks for the welcome.

fienX420 · Post #16 » by **fienX420** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:52 pm

I really like Clark - just needs strength and time.

Wizop · Post #17 » by **Wizop** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:36 pm

I think the five six nine guy idea goes all the way back to Pat Riley when he was coaching Magic at the Lakers but I agree that Bird wants more team speed and better athletes. I've also heard that he's done drafting for O'B's system. I wouldn't read much into this year's pick relative to a plan though as there just aren't many real power players in this draft.