Dwight is a MAX player, really?

[chriscringle95]

was 95 the year you were born by chance? no offense meant, just wondering if youngins are on the board now

2/7/77

I have seen all of the greats in there prime (Jordan, Pippen, Malone, Magic,Bird, Isiah, Hakeem, YOUNG Grant Hil, YOUNG Shaquille O'Neal, etc) since the 80's and have watched Amare since his sophomore year of high school. I have played basketball at the college level and followed this forum for the last 3-4 years.

I have read MKOT, SDU, Frank Lee, dbdynasty amongst others and I just feel that sometimes you guys just don't give Amare his due. Jordan didn't win his first championship until he was 28 years old. Amare is 26. Players DO get better with age. He is capable of being a franchise player. 25 and 10 in the playoffs in 36 games looks very good to me. He does it when it matters and that's what separates the good from the great.

I know as a Suns fan it is hard to continue to believe that this franchise can win an NBA Championship. Joe Johnson's injury in 04-05, the Stern Suspension's of 06-07, and the injury to Amare's knee in 05-06 (They would have DESTROYED Dallas like always with a healthy Amare) are the only reasons the Suns aren't hanging a banner at America West Arena right now. But to think they can't do it and need to trade this guy and that guy is crazy.

On topic Howard is a great athlete but his basketball skills are still far behind his physical skills. There is no way Gasol should be able to guard him one on one. You think Shaq in his prime at 23-24 would have been stopped like that? Howard is a force on D, but so is Mutumbo and Camby, and any other shot blocker, rebounder. Doesn't mean you can build a franchise around the guy.

Again:

Amare>Dwight. He has a more complete game and CAN be a good defender when he wants to be. Howard can't become a great offensive player off of effort alone. That is what separates the two of these superstars.

[chriscringle95]

I graduated High School in 1995. Miwaukee Vincent. Greatest basketball school in Wisconsin High School history! Rodney Buford(Heat,Sixers,Nets), Marcus (Wisconsin) and Carl Landry (Houston Rockets) just to name a few.

6 State Championships in 10 years between 96-2006

I have seen boatloads of talent up close and personal during my youth.

[thamadkant]

chris..

As a defender and inside anchore defensively... Mutombo > Howard.

Howard is Camby like that they grab heaps of boards, block shots, but Mutombo anchors it... Howard is a better anchor than Camby but Mutombo > both.
Howard is Mourning all over to me.... he is not close to O'Neal nor any of the greats at this point... I agree he doesnt have the offensive skills.

Stoudemire in the other hand has the offensive skills but doesnt have the basketball know how... sure he knows how to dunk, he has a good shot, he can finish near the rim etc, due to him just very focused to score and get that shot up. But basketball know how, as the greats have...
the ability to sacrifice other aspects of his game and increase others which his team needs the most... NOPE... doent have it..

He doesnt have the ability to contribute outide of shooting the ball or attempting a dunk.... he CAN, the guy is 6'10 with 35+ vertical very quick and agile... but NOPE... he doesnt know how to contribute outside of offense..

He is on the same tier as Shawn Kemp in his prime.... Shawn Kemp the better defender and rebounder and has the same passion as Garnett but doesnt have the offensive weapon Stoudemire has.... I'd have Shawn Kemp over Stoudemire due to his ability to grab 10+ boards or contain his man defensively when his shot or offense is OFF.... Stoudemire when shooting badly, or foul trouble, doesnt bring nothing for the team.....unfortunately... because he has the tools.

[Frank Lee]

I think, after reading these fine assessments,

Neither of these guys deserve a max deal.

But neither did Rashard.


Amar'Me's price tag will be a Market Driven decision. Problem is, Phnx loses ALL leverage if he opts out next yr and we are forced with a 'take it or leave' scenario. The only thing working in our favor is the tight economy and other big names on the auction table.

Had ichiban been less enthusiastic about playing elsewhere perhaps the negotiation process would have gotten off on the right foot. This season could/should have begun with talks of re inking Stat instead of rethinking Stat.

Cringle, tossing Amar'me in with that bunch of HoFers is a stretch, but you make good points, as many others here have.
( and lumping SDU into the anti-stat crowd is a risky thing to do )
My beef stems from his attitude. When he went on the All-Amar'Me-All-City-Tour that was the final straw. I do not ever recall Magic, Bird, Hakeem etc blatantly courting other teams. (Shaq is a different story)

Its the same feeling I had wth Swannie Shawnnie and Joe Johnson when they started whining. It killed me when Barkley squeezed us into trading him (and we got crap back because WE HAD TO DEAL...he then he yanked 33 boards against us the first meeting, thanks Chuck)

If your heart isn't in Phnx then go. My guts have been ripped out several times for this team. Fortunately now, with age and significant scar tissue, I don't bleed as bad. But it still does not lessen the pain, nor the vice requirements needed to cope.

So to Stat (and his supporters) I say this.....

You have the audacity to publicly announce to DC, ATL, Chi, NY that
'You can win them a Championship and you'd love to play there' ??? I don't give a crap if you are Magic, Bird, and Jordan all rolled into one... Your heart is not in Phoenix. You obviously have little or no regard to the fan base that has supported you for the past 7 yrs. You are a hired gun, ready to be pimped out to the highest bidder of your choice. (all some of the reasons why I pretty much ignore THE BIG PROMOTER as well). Yeah, perhaps his comments were spurred on by past season trade rumors... but it is clear, this cat is all about himself and he really hasn't learned much in his tenure in the league.

oh yeah, and he is our best player and hope for the future.

Thanks Stat, for being Stat



PS...Hey Cringle, A buddy of mine played for Dick Bennet at Eau Claire..... (The same Bennet, who later coached Terry Porter) oh, and Leinenkugel's have made it to the SEast

[garrick]

I don`t think the reason Amare dropped off from team USA was because he wasn`t starting. I thought he wanted to rest his kees?

[chriscringle95]

I think, after reading these fine assessments,

Neither of these guys deserve a max deal.

But neither did Rashard.


Amar'Me's price tag will be a Market Driven decision. Problem is, Phnx loses ALL leverage if he opts out next yr and we are forced with a 'take it or leave' scenario. The only thing working in our favor is the tight economy and other big names on the auction table.

Had ichiban been less enthusiastic about playing elsewhere perhaps the negotiation process would have gotten off on the right foot. This season could/should have begun with talks of re inking Stat instead of rethinking Stat.

Cringle, tossing Amar'me in with that bunch of HoFers is a stretch, but you make good points, as many others here have.
( and lumping SDU into the anti-stat crowd is a risky thing to do )
My beef stems from his attitude. When he went on the All-Amar'Me-All-City-Tour that was the final straw. I do not ever recall Magic, Bird, Hakeem etc blatantly courting other teams. (Shaq is a different story)

Its the same feeling I had wth Swannie Shawnnie and Joe Johnson when they started whining. It killed me when Barkley squeezed us into trading him (and we got crap back because WE HAD TO DEAL...he then he yanked 33 boards against us the first meeting, thanks Chuck)

If your heart isn't in Phnx then go. My guts have been ripped out several times for this team. Fortunately now, with age and significant scar tissue, I don't bleed as bad. But it still does not lessen the pain, nor the vice requirements needed to cope.

So to Stat (and his supporters) I say this.....

You have the audacity to publicly announce to DC, ATL, Chi, NY that
'You can win them a Championship and you'd love to play there' ??? I don't give a crap if you are Magic, Bird, and Jordan all rolled into one... Your heart is not in Phoenix. You obviously have little or no regard to the fan base that has supported you for the past 7 yrs. You are a hired gun, ready to be pimped out to the highest bidder of your choice. (all some of the reasons why I pretty much ignore THE BIG PROMOTER as well). Yeah, perhaps his comments were spurred on by past season trade rumors... but it is clear, this cat is all about himself and he really hasn't learned much in his tenure in the league.

oh yeah, and he is our best player and hope for the future.

Thanks Stat, for being Stat



PS...Hey Cringle, A buddy of mine played for Dick Bennet at Eau Claire..... (The same Bennet, who later coached Terry Porter) oh, and Leinenkugel's have made it to the SEast

Yeah I wasn't trying to say anyone was anti-stat and I have read enough to know that SDU isn't. I think I could have written that part better.

That's cool about Dick Bennett. He is a legend in Wisconsin having coached UW-Green Bay and Wisconsin. His son Tony was also a helluva a player back in the early 90's at UWGB. Went on to play for the Hornets in the NBA for a few years.

Forgive me for being biased toward Amare but I have seen his best and I know he justs needs do it and not talk about it. I think they should let him be a captain and earn his max deal. He talks a lot about wanting to do this or that as a player so make him prove it. He has benefitted from being able to pass the buck off on others at times and has not always been held accountable. Putting him into the fire as a leader would at least prove without question if he is truly capable of reaching his potential as a player. If he fails you can ship him out at the All Star break.

I think his attitude is that of most athletes in that he is extremely confident in his abilities and can come across sounding cocky and arrogant. What I do like about his attitude is that he has no fear on the court and is very aggressive.

His mental preparation for the game is the last hurdle in his development I think. Play hard all the time, play with your teamates/make them better and play SMART!

[Frank Lee]

SMART is hard to teach


As much as I rag on Stat, i hope we are able to come to terms with him. Barring injury, the worse case scenario is he walks and we get nothing but more cap space. Nothing is the safe thing to do....