UFC 99: June 13

[Walt Cronkite]

I'm new to MMA, but I have a theory about Wanderlei's UFC struggles I'd like to get an opinion on.

Simply put, I wonder if his issue is with the match lengths. In Pride, where Silva dominated, the first round was 10 minutes with the next two dropping to 5. Obviously UFC fights are 5 minutes shorter because they don't have a quirky round 1. For a guy that wants to brawl and absorb punishment but dish more of it out, would it stand to reason that a shorter first round would significantly alter this strategy?

At first, I feel like it sounds like a dumb excuse/argument, but it really has me wondering. Silva initially made a name for himself in grueling, one round Vale Tudo fights with a 30 minute time limit. I'm sure this lead to a unique training regiment which he would've needed to adapt (?) when he moved on to Pride, but he was still able to have an extraordinary initial round. Thoughts?

[Cammo101]

I'm new to MMA, but I have a theory about Wanderlei's UFC struggles I'd like to get an opinion on.

Simply put, I wonder if his issue is with the match lengths. In Pride, where Silva dominated, the first round was 10 minutes with the next two dropping to 5. Obviously UFC fights are 5 minutes shorter because they don't have a quirky round 1. For a guy that wants to brawl and absorb punishment but dish more of it out, would it stand to reason that a shorter first round would significantly alter this strategy?

At first, I feel like it sounds like a dumb excuse/argument, but it really has me wondering. Silva initially made a name for himself in grueling, one round Vale Tudo fights with a 30 minute time limit. I'm sure this lead to a unique training regiment which he would've needed to adapt (?) when he moved on to Pride, but he was still able to have an extraordinary initial round. Thoughts?

There may be a little to this, but I think that he is in the same boat as Chuck. They both won by overwhelming their opponent and hitting them hard. They are not the most technical. With age, the zip on your punches goes away some and your chin gets weaker, and these guys are feeling those effects now.

Wandy's power and ability to just blitz fighters just is not there anymore. Clearly he is still a tough guy, but not a top of the food chain guy in the UFC. With guys this high profile, their struggles are magnified by the talent of the guys they are losing to. They can still fight, just not at the elite championship level.

[Walt Cronkite]

Wanderlei isn't old, though. Do you mean by fighting years?

[Cammo101]

Wanderlei isn't old, though. Do you mean by fighting years?

He is not ancient, but the way he fights, he has a lot of mils on him. He is the kind of fighter who takes a lot of punishment to give a lot of punishment, and that appears to have caught up with him.

[Walt Cronkite]

Gotcha. Thanks for the reply, I was just trying to figure out why most of the Pride guys that made the leap had a less than stellar track record in the UFC. Obvious reasons being that they were past their primes or had already logged a ton of mileage, but I think the pacing difference ought not be dismissed... seems pretty practical.

[Cammo101]

Gotcha. Thanks for the reply, I was just trying to figure out why most of the Pride guys that made the leap had a less than stellar track record in the UFC. Obvious reasons being that they were past their primes or had already logged a ton of mileage, but I think the pacing difference ought not be dismissed... seems pretty practical.

This is a broader question with a handful of answers. Drug testing, the cage instead of the ring, the fact that a lot of the Pride guys were slightly overrated, and the different scoring and timing all play a part. That said, there are a lot of Pride guys who have come over and done real well like Rampage, Shogun, Henderson, Anderson Silva, Nogueira...

[Walt Cronkite]

I don't understand how ring vs. cage could make much of a difference. I'd love if you could elaborate on that a little bit when you get a chance.

[Cammo101]

I don't understand how ring vs. cage could make much of a difference. I'd love if you could elaborate on that a little bit when you get a chance.

There are a lot of big difference between the cage and the ring. The clinch game is much more effective in a cage, because you can lean on it. The cage also makes it easier to stand up from the bottom, and it also allows you to press your opponent into the cage and keep him bottled up. The differences are subtle, but they take some getting used to.

[Walt Cronkite]

Good points. Also, watching tonight's card it struck me that there must be almost twice as much mat surface area vs a ring.

[Hilltop]

It is time to put the following fighters out to pasture...

Chuck Liddell
Wanderlei Silva
Tito Ortiz
Matt Hughes
Randy Couture

I love a lot of these guys, but the UFC needs to start pushing the next generation of stars and stop clinging to the last generation.

Well you won't have to worry about the UFC clinging on to Tito Ortiz, that's the last thing that's gonna happen. His affiliations with the organization are through anyway.

[Test of Wills]

It is time to put the following fighters out to pasture...

Chuck Liddell
Wanderlei Silva
Tito Ortiz
Matt Hughes
Randy Couture

+1

The new stars of today.

GSP
BJ Penn
Anderson Silva
Suga Evans
Shogun Rua
Brock Lesnar
Lyoto Machida
Frank Mir
Thiago Alvez