Series Thread: Jays @ Natinals | June 19-21

[s e n s i]

A 7 run lead is just enough to meet the requisite run difference for the Jesse Carlson Cushion.

[tsherkin]

AWESOME offense... Overbay with 5 (!) RBIs?

I see Carlson's at his best...

EDIT: Oh right, NL park... that makes the subs make sense. Oops.

[Brinbe]

Woo, didn't get swept.

[tsherkin]

Hey, look, Frasor's in the game! Maybe he can shut this down. Damnit, did I just say that? I've been complaining about him for years. I guess a half-season of good pitching really does make you forget... C'mon, one out!

[TorontoSF]

4 out of 6 on the road. I say that's a pretty good road trip.

[s e n s i]

Nice. At least we got a bit of momentum heading into this 9-game homestand.

[tsherkin]

Very nice, we close the win and avoid the sweep. Lot of pitches for Ricky, but a good performance nonetheless. A few too many baserunners, but that was a good outing and I'll take a game like that from him each time, every time, and thank-you-very-much.

Outstanding offense... we needed this. It's funny that I say that when we're 5th in the AL in R/G, but we needed the offensive push and we got it. Aside from Overbay and the overall winning thing and all that, one of the neat things was that pretty much everyone but Rod and the pitchers contributed to the offense; even our pinch hitter got himself a hit!

Great game. I guess Carlson needed to keep the pressure off the rest of the relievers in terms of total pitches thrown or something, because I can't think of another good reason why he's still allowed on the mound in-game.

[Schad]

Carlson is out there for the same reason he has always been out there...he can throw quite a few innings, and the best reliever for Cito's mindset is one able to handle a brutal workload. He's tied for the AL lead in appearances, and has now thrown five innings in the last seven games.

It's not even really the overall IP, but the way they are distributed; if you want the likely culprit in Carlson's sudden demise, I'd point to the stretches that preceded his blow-ups:

- Between May 14-18, he pitched in four games over 4.7 innings. Not surprisingly, he didn't fare too well in the final game of that stretch.

- Then he received two days off before pitching 4.7 innings over four games between May 21-26. Cito tried to run him out there for the fifth time in seven days, and after throwing 19 pitches the day previous and he got rocked.

- This time is possibly the worst...since June 14 (nine days) Carlson has thrown 114 pitches, which is insane. Not only did he was he a bit shaky today, if Cito deigns to use him Tuesday, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he looks a bit sloppy as well

Basically, by using Carlson like this, Cito is turning a pretty nice asset into a detriment. It was a little different last year, when he was used as a LOOGY more frequently, but you can't run a guy out there to throw 15+ pitches in that many games and expect them to succeed, especially a guy like Carlson who relies on his mechanics to be perfect, rather than power or a plus-plus out pitch.

[evilRyu]

Anyone else kinda liked the few NL-style games? I do'nt know if I can handle it for a full 162 games, but I liked the fact that the *entire* team pretty much gets a piece of the pie of a game... it makes them more involved, and a ton more strategy... in the AL, there are lots of righty/lefty matchups late in the game.. but in the past 2 series, there seems to be way more of a strategic element. Cito really got owned BIG TIME with that double-switch he fudged late in the game against Philly, but luckily he still came out on top.

[evilRyu]

wow, hell of a DP

Scott Rolen is absolutely dead-eye with the arm. Off-balance on one foot, fading-away, and can still get it to 2nd. The scoop and transfer by Hilly was also amazing.

Rolen's defense has been incredible...... his replacement (Bautista) has been solid as well

[s e n s i]

Carlson is out there for the same reason he has always been out there...he can throw quite a few innings, and the best reliever for Cito's mindset is one able to handle a brutal workload. He's tied for the AL lead in appearances, and has now thrown five innings in the last seven games.

It's not even really the overall IP, but the way they are distributed; if you want the likely culprit in Carlson's sudden demise, I'd point to the stretches that preceded his blow-ups:

- Between May 14-18, he pitched in four games over 4.7 innings. Not surprisingly, he didn't fare too well in the final game of that stretch.

- Then he received two days off before pitching 4.7 innings over four games between May 21-26. Cito tried to run him out there for the fifth time in seven days, and after throwing 19 pitches the day previous and he got rocked.

- This time is possibly the worst...since June 14 (nine days) Carlson has thrown 114 pitches, which is insane. Not only did he was he a bit shaky today, if Cito deigns to use him Tuesday, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he looks a bit sloppy as well

Basically, by using Carlson like this, Cito is turning a pretty nice asset into a detriment. It was a little different last year, when he was used as a LOOGY more frequently, but you can't run a guy out there to throw 15+ pitches in that many games and expect them to succeed, especially a guy like Carlson who relies on his mechanics to be perfect, rather than power or a plus-plus out pitch.

Good stuff, Schaddy. I personally would like to see more of Camp. Possibly give a few of those Carlson innings to him. I'm out right now and can't check up on Camp's workload and if it's close to Carlson's so don't flame me anyone. Like any pitcher, when Camp can keep the ball low he is very, very good.

For the most part, our bullpen has been solid. It's kind of ridiculous to expect them to collectively pitch shut-out ball, so as long as they're doing their best to keep the ball in the park, we should continue winning.

EDIT* Looks like Camp has only pitched two less innings than Carlson. In that case, Cito should just simply reduce Carlson's workload and disperse it amongst the rest of the pen, even if that means BJ gets more burn. We've seen Carlson have some of the easiest innings imaginable, but we've also seen him get rocked like propping the ball on a tee would have been more successful. Again this likely has to do with the Cito's overuse.

[zilby]

at least we got 1 win. and 5 from lyle overbiy

[wicked_crossova]

wow, hell of a DP

Thats what she said

[tsherkin]

Carlson is out there for the same reason he has always been out there...he can throw quite a few innings, and the best reliever for Cito's mindset is one able to handle a brutal workload. He's tied for the AL lead in appearances, and has now thrown five innings in the last seven games.

It's not even really the overall IP, but the way they are distributed; if you want the likely culprit in Carlson's sudden demise, I'd point to the stretches that preceded his blow-ups:

Interesting take. I've always wondered why relief pitchers sucked like that though, no insult to Carlson. If a starter can pitch 6-9 innings in a single day, what's the big deal about pitching a single inning in 3 or 4 consecutive games?

[youngLion]

Carlson is out there for the same reason he has always been out there...he can throw quite a few innings, and the best reliever for Cito's mindset is one able to handle a brutal workload. He's tied for the AL lead in appearances, and has now thrown five innings in the last seven games.

It's not even really the overall IP, but the way they are distributed; if you want the likely culprit in Carlson's sudden demise, I'd point to the stretches that preceded his blow-ups:

Interesting take. I've always wondered why relief pitchers sucked like that though, no insult to Carlson. If a starter can pitch 6-9 innings in a single day, what's the big deal about pitching a single inning in 3 or 4 consecutive games?

This might sound silly, but relievers aren't starters.

Relievers train to put everything they have into an inning or two of work and so their arms aren't conditioned for bigger workloads. Generally when a reliever is converted into a starter his arm has to be carefully stretched out to accommodate the added innings, unless it's a long reliever like a Brian Tallet. Old-schoolers like Nolan Ryan will tell you that pitchers' arms are babied too much these days and that this actually increases injuries, but I'm not sure I buy that argument. Medical science has advanced a long way, and training staffs are just better at identifying injuries these days. But I digress.

Another factor is mechanics. Many pitchers find themselves in relief roles because they've got very good stuff by way of a wonky delivery that does bad things to their arms, but this isn't the case with everyone.

I've got to agree Shad, that 114 pitches/9 days stat is totally crazy. Obviously every pitcher wants to go out there as much as possible, but Cito has to know better. He's going to burn Carlson out long before his time if this keeps up.