McGowan is in serious trouble

youngLion · Post #1 » by **youngLion** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:02 pm

Alex Anthopolous was on The Fan just now. I only caught the end of the interview but the last question he was asked was about McGowan, and he started his response with something to the effect of "We're not ready to say that he won't be a major league pitcher again; we're still hoping". To me this says that they're preparing for the possibility that he's simply done.

We've heard rumblings for a while that McGowan's injury is extremely serious and career threatening (even for a Blue Jays pitcher) but this sounds like the most dire outlook we're heard about him yet. This is truly unfortunate after he started to really show signs last year.

With all of the injuries to this pitching staff I don't think it was ever reasonable to expect everybody to come back 100% and be effective big leaguers, but now that we can attach a name to that circumstance it's pretty sad.

s e n s i · Post #2 » by **s e n s i** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:13 pm

Ouch. I loved D-Mac. Although he carried a somewhat bloated ERA and a losing record, we all know the kind of stuff he has. Here's hoping it's really not that bad to the point where he'd have to cut his career short and hang'er up.

The good thing is though, is that Cecil has the potential to fill the void. And that Romero could be a constant fix in the rotation in the coming years.

Doc, Cecil, Marcum, Romero, ?. isn't really bad at all. Pretty good actually, granted Romero and Cecil get better.

evilRyu · Post #3 » by **evilRyu** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:25 am

wow, i really didn't expect/thought it would be career-ending

Let's just hope he makes a full recovery...

Mustard_Tiger · Post #4 » by **Mustard_Tiger** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:57 am

Oh well, I was really hoping to watch McGowan's growth over the next few years, but we're Jays fans, we're used to this kind of disappointment by now.

Reminds me of what happened to Chris Carpenter and his torn labrum. Nobody in the organization believed he would resume his career as a successful major league pitcher (if I'm remembering correctly), so they let him go. Carpenter did make an incredibly improbable comeback, though. It seems McGowan may not be so lucky.

Mustard_Tiger · Post #5 » by **Mustard_Tiger** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:00 am

chocolateSensi wrote:Doc, Cecil, Marcum, Romero, ?. isn't really bad at all. Pretty good actually, granted Romero and Cecil get better.

I know you don't like Litsch much, but he'll probably be back late next year (pitchers tend to come back pretty well from TJ). He can very easily still be an effective starter for the team.

Post #6 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:51 am

But do we want Litsch to come back as a starter? It seems that there are more attractive options in terms of the potential our young guys have, especially with guys who have a better fastball to fall back on.

Post #7 » by **Schad** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:00 am

Mustard_Tiger wrote:Carpenter did make an incredibly improbable comeback, though. It seems McGowan may not be so lucky.

Carp's comeback has to be one of the most remarkable I've ever witnessed. He was a decent, though thoroughly mediocre pitcher, didn't pitch for eighteen months to rehab what could have been a career-ending injury, and somehow came back with better control (by a large margin) than he even showed before.

It came as a shock to hear this, though it shouldn't have. Not only did McGowan have TJ surgery a few years back, but he was brutalized in 2007; it's hard to keep such things in perspective when you need him starting every fifth day, but he went from throwing 56 innings in 2005 (post-TJ) to 111 in 2006, and then to 191 in 2007. That's the type of jump that can shred a pitcher's arm, and given his tendency to put guys on, those weren't cheap innings.

I hope for his sake he can return, but velocity was his calling card. Unless he transforms his game entirely, it's going to be a very hard road ahead.

Post #8 » by **spykelee** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:03 am

Mustard_Tiger wrote:
chocolateSensi wrote:Doc, Cecil, Marcum, Romero, ?. isn't really bad at all. Pretty good actually, granted Romero and Cecil get better.

I know you don't like Litsch much, but he'll probably be back late next year (pitchers tend to come back pretty well from TJ). He can very easily still be an effective starter for the team.

Though we've seen alot of pitchers come back from TJ surgery in the past, I for one am beginning to question how many come back as the pitchers they once where... It's increasingly looking to me like it's atleast 2 years until you get the old guy back... and that's only assuming he ever comes back...

Francisco Liriano is a shell of his former self, and that is becomming an increasingly common situation with this surgery. Where guys have to re-make themselves to make it back. Everyone's penciling Marcum into our #2 spot next year, but what if he isn't what he used to be? All the sudden the jays pitching staff isn't nearly so strong... say in a for instance we actually traded doc and the situation would get alot bleaker. I'm not saying this always happens or anything, but it just seems to me, that not all guys are 1 year off and then bam, back to there good old selves. For Marcum's case, I for one hope it's true as he was my favourite pitcher on the jays bar none prior to his injury...

J-Roc · Post #9 » by **J-Roc** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:20 pm

Yo, wtf!! Does Anthopolous should be fired. Sounds like a kid on the radio. I can't believe JP or Beeston would have wanted those words to be used.

Michael Bradley · Post #10 » by **Michael Bradley** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:55 pm

Carpenter's comeback is definitely the exception, not the norm. It was a mix of finally getting healthy after various surgeries and going to St. Louis where Dave Duncan can turn anything (man, woman, child, animal, etc) into a decent starter. Of course, Carpenter was always one of the most abused young starters in baseball in the late-90's with Johnson and Fregosi managing, so the Jays organization is partly responsible as well.

As far as McGowan, what hurt him, as Schad pointed out, was his brief stint as a reliever in 2006. That really limited his innings that year to the point where the innings jump the following year was huge. I don't know what the Jays were thinking. Had he been kept as a starter, with a watchful eye on his innings/pitch count, then the jump in innings may have been less of an issue.

In any event, if he can't be counted on to throw 150-200 innings anymore, then he has the stuff to be a dominant closer. Obviously he is best suited as a starter. Hopefully they do not give up on him too early. Injury or not, he has an ace calibre arm.

Mustard_Tiger · Post #11 » by **Mustard_Tiger** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:30 pm

J-Roc wrote:Yo, wtf!! Does Anthopolous should be fired. Sounds like a kid on the radio. I can't believe JP or Beeston would have wanted those words to be used.

I'm not quite understanding your anger here. You don't like Anthopolous because he disclosed too much of the truth?

Avenger · Post #12 » by **Avenger** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:42 pm

I didn't think the actual quote was as bad as you paraphrased it here. He said we can't be sure just like there were talks about Aaron Hill not playing again

evilRyu · Post #13 » by **evilRyu** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:12 pm

Mustard_Tiger wrote:
J-Roc wrote:Yo, wtf!! Does Anthopolous should be fired. Sounds like a kid on the radio. I can't believe JP or Beeston would have wanted those words to be used.

I'm not quite understanding your anger here. You don't like Anthopolous because he disclosed too much of the truth?

truth or not, that's not the point. the point is that you don't want management to come out and say that a player's career may be over. it seems very sudden since many projected him to be back in the rotation next season.

its like , how Babcock came out and said he didn't expect the raps to win as many games that one season..

evilRyu · Post #14 » by **evilRyu** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:15 pm

Mustard_Tiger wrote:Oh well, I was really hoping to watch McGowan's growth over the next few years, but we're Jays fans, we're used to this kind of disappointment by now.

Reminds me of what happened to Chris Carpenter and his torn labrum. Nobody in the organization believed he would resume his career as a successful major league pitcher (if I'm remembering correctly), so they let him go. Carpenter did make an incredibly improbable comeback, though. It seems McGowan may not be so lucky.

I think there was more to the story than that.. i remember hearing that the Blue Jays did make him a contract offer, but he rejected it (i believe it was a small contract)...

thebigguy · Post #15 » by **thebigguy** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:25 pm

evilRyu wrote:
Mustard_Tiger wrote:Oh well, I was really hoping to watch McGowan's growth over the next few years, but we're Jays fans, we're used to this kind of disappointment by now.

Reminds me of what happened to Chris Carpenter and his torn labrum. Nobody in the organization believed he would resume his career as a successful major league pitcher (if I'm remembering correctly), so they let him go. Carpenter did make an incredibly improbable comeback, though. It seems McGowan may not be so lucky.

I think there was more to the story than that.. i remember hearing that the Blue Jays did make him a contract offer, but he rejected it (i believe it was a small contract)...

If I remember correctly, there is limit to what you can reduce a contract through aribitration, and while they were willing to give him a contract they didn't want topay him 2 years at 3/4s of his salary before the injury.

Post #16 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:59 pm

Well, it looks like Dusty is indeed out for the rest of this season at least.

Also from the Post:

Could McGowan be done? "No one's saying that," Anthopoulos replied.

zilby · Post #17 » by **zilby** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:41 am

:'( D-Mac was awesome. get well soon.

chargerxthirty · Post #18 » by **chargerxthirty** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:02 pm

evilRyu wrote:
Mustard_Tiger wrote:Oh well, I was really hoping to watch McGowan's growth over the next few years, but we're Jays fans, we're used to this kind of disappointment by now.

Reminds me of what happened to Chris Carpenter and his torn labrum. Nobody in the organization believed he would resume his career as a successful major league pitcher (if I'm remembering correctly), so they let him go. Carpenter did make an incredibly improbable comeback, though. It seems McGowan may not be so lucky.

I think there was more to the story than that.. i remember hearing that the Blue Jays did make him a contract offer, but he rejected it (i believe it was a small contract)...

Don't even get me started on that guy..... that is one of the reasons I hate JP more than anything. Yes the Blue Jays did make him a contract offer, but it was an embarassment, he was willing to take minimum salary on a guaranteed MLB contract but JP refused to give him an MLB deal. They offered him a minor league contract and it was a JOKE. I understand that he may have never been the same, but realistically, for a man of his ability, minimum salary, it would of been WELL worth the risk. Needless to say, JP refused to move on his offer and Carpenter and his camp basically said, well **** you then, I'm a major league pitcher and I'll go elsewhere. The cardinals swooped in almost immediately no pun intended and signed him to a guaranteed major league contract. The rest is history, he made JP look like an absolute ass clown. I mean, all he did was win the Cy Young.

Test of Wills · Post #19 » by **Test of Wills** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:55 pm

This would really suck and hurt this franchise.

McGowan has had all the tools to be an ace of a staff and was proving to be a very good pitcher last season.

I envisioned Dustin and Marcum leading this group in the future but that could all be cut loose, if he doesn't recover.

Get well, McGowan!