NJ / BOS

[Celtics>Breathing]

This would be a disaster. Nobody has ever won anything with Vince Carter, he is a whopping year younger than Ray with another year on his deal. He is much more focused on his individual performance than is his team's performance.

Ray has proven to be an efficient offensive weapon in a reduced role, that is never anything that we have seen from Carter. I think you would see his numbers and happiness reduce significantly taking 13-14 shots a game and not having the ball in his hands. Vince is headed for a Jerry Stackhouse decline not a Reggie Miller one.

Wow sully! Sounds like your talking about Paul Pierce before KG got here. How funny is that . I think PP should be taking 12-13 shots a game, and VC taking 18-20 shots a game if this move was made. Paul can handle the end of the game duties.

Wow shows what you and the rest of the people supporting this idea know. Paul Pierce takes 13-14 shots a game now, even in a season that KG missed a 3rd of. He also did this his first year under Doc with Ricky Davis and Raef and eventually Antoine to share shots with. There aren't 18-20 shots a game for VC in Boston, who is a less effective and accurate scorer than Pierce and absolutely allergic to defense.

How is Vince Carter an upgrade to Ray Allen? What are you bringing him to Boston to do? He is 32 years old what is the point?

Ray Allen 13 shots per last two years
Paul Pierce 14 shots per game last two years

Vince Carter 17 shots per game last two years

God sully I'm sure VC will just want to kill himself or Doc for only being able to take two fewer shots per game than his last two years.

[Celtics>Breathing]

You know what I'm tired of all this homer bull that goes on these sites. NJ fans think that Ray straight up for VC isn't fair. Our fans think VC is a scrub, but yet we worship Paul Pierce who might be a less talented player (especially before KG) than VC. It's ridiculous. Who knows how VC would do playing with PP and KG. I guarantee it would be a lot better than what NJ been getting for the last 3 years.

[Barry Lird]

You know what I'm tired of all this homer bull that goes on these sites. NJ fans think that Ray straight up for VC isn't fair. Our fans think VC is a scrub, but yet we worship Paul Pierce who might be a less talented player (especially before KG) than VC. It's ridiculous. Who knows how VC would do playing with PP and KG. I guarantee it would be a lot better than what NJ been getting for the last 3 years.

Apparently Jersey fans don't realize that for their side, this is nearly entirely a salary dump and setting themselves up for a big 10/11 offseason, and that the reason they'd have to throw in more in the exchange is that we're taking on VC's 17.3 mil in 10/11. It's really not about whether Ray's better than VC or not, although from our side, we'd need a good starting 2, and VC is still that.

I see this as at least plausible, not to say that Danny will do it, but it's definitely not crazy, depending on what else besides VC they throw in.

[Celtics>Breathing]

You know what I'm tired of all this homer bull that goes on these sites. NJ fans think that Ray straight up for VC isn't fair. Our fans think VC is a scrub, but yet we worship Paul Pierce who might be a less talented player (especially before KG) than VC. It's ridiculous. Who knows how VC would do playing with PP and KG. I guarantee it would be a lot better than what NJ been getting for the last 3 years.

Apparently Jersey fans don't realize that for their side, this is nearly entirely a salary dump and setting themselves up for a big 10/11 offseason, and that the reason they'd have to throw in more in the exchange is that we're taking on VC's 17.3 mil in 10/11. It's really not about whether Ray's better than VC or not, although from our side, we'd need a good starting 2, and VC is still that.

I see this as at least plausible, not to say that Danny will do it, but it's definitely not crazy, depending on what else besides VC they throw in.

An objective view Barry. Agreed. Who knows what DA comin up with. I think it just has to be something.

[Marley2Hendrix]

You know what I'm tired of all this homer bull that goes on these sites. NJ fans think that Ray straight up for VC isn't fair. Our fans think VC is a scrub, but yet we worship Paul Pierce who might be a less talented player (especially before KG) than VC. It's ridiculous. Who knows how VC would do playing with PP and KG. I guarantee it would be a lot better than what NJ been getting for the last 3 years.

Apparently Jersey fans don't realize that for their side, this is nearly entirely a salary dump and setting themselves up for a big 10/11 offseason, and that the reason they'd have to throw in more in the exchange is that we're taking on VC's 17.3 mil in 10/11. It's really not about whether Ray's better than VC or not, although from our side, we'd need a good starting 2, and VC is still that.

I see this as at least plausible, not to say that Danny will do it, but it's definitely not crazy, depending on what else besides VC they throw in.

An objective view Barry. Agreed. Who knows what DA comin up with. I think it just has to be something.

I don't really like it, Carter is only 1 1/2 years younger than ray and their games are predicated on opposite ends of the spectrum, Ray compliments PP and KG so much better as a 3rd wheel, and he will age sooooo much better than vince. I don't think the 11th is quite enough to encourage this unnecessary risk.

[Barry Lird]

I don't really like it, Carter is only 1 1/2 years younger than ray and their games are predicated on opposite ends of the spectrum, Ray compliments PP and KG so much better as a 3rd wheel, and he will age sooooo much better than vince. I don't think the 11th is quite enough to encourage this unnecessary risk.

Agreed. Just adding the #11 would not be enough for us, as that player probably would get very little PT. They'd have to fill one of our backup needs, so Dooling or Hayes (for example) would be a must as well.

[BadWolf]

You have to do this.
We can/should have 2011 plan.
We get nr 11, ie Clark? Solid sf/pf tweener to be rotation player, probably better Gomes, and a look at williams.
Oh, and Vince at this point is much better then Ray.
VC had more success then Ray in their first 8-10 years, didn't he?

[Celts17Pride]

You have to do this.
We can/should have 2011 plan.
We get nr 11, ie Clark? Solid sf/pf tweener to be rotation player, probably better Gomes, and a look at williams.
Oh, and Vince at this point is much better then Ray.
VC had more success then Ray in their first 8-10 years, didn't he?

Puke!

I would take Ray over Wince Carter any day of the week. Wince is just collecting a paycheck. No heart.

Heck why don't the Celtics trade Ray, Pierce & Rondo and get Carter, McGrady & Bibby. They could get everyone on the all overrated team. That would be a record setting team. 15 win team right there.

[sully00]

Wow shows what you and the rest of the people supporting this idea know. Paul Pierce takes 13-14 shots a game now, even in a season that KG missed a 3rd of. He also did this his first year under Doc with Ricky Davis and Raef and eventually Antoine to share shots with. There aren't 18-20 shots a game for VC in Boston, who is a less effective and accurate scorer than Pierce and absolutely allergic to defense.

How is Vince Carter an upgrade to Ray Allen? What are you bringing him to Boston to do? He is 32 years old what is the point?

Ray Allen 13 shots per last two years
Paul Pierce 14 shots per game last two years

Vince Carter 17 shots per game last two years

God sully I'm sure VC will just want to kill himself or Doc for only being able to take two fewer shots per game than his last two years.

No I would kill myself knowing we are paying Wince Carter 17 million dollars to score 15 ppg and flash the skills that compile that 112 DRT and 17.3 oppPER. Just makes me scream ubuntu WTF. Vince is a push at best (+1.9) on the court right now and that is with him healthy and shooting the hell out of the thing. He is a one dimensional player who hurts his team.

Just for reference Ray is +11/DRT 106, oppPER of 12.

You must have loved the Dominique Wilkins era in Boston.

[Darth Celtic]

i think it's a wash. Talent wise vince can create offense better, where ray is better shooter so better off others creating.

Vince is younger and would extend the time we got.

I'd rather extend ray for 2 years at 7-8million, but if ray says no, better to do this trade then be stuck without ray next year and no vince either.

[Marley2Hendrix]

i think it's a wash. Talent wise vince can create offense better, where ray is better shooter so better off others creating.

Vince is younger and would extend the time we got.

I'd rather extend ray for 2 years at 7-8million, but if ray says no, better to do this trade then be stuck without ray next year and no vince either.

to the bolded part simply no, just no. Vince is about 18 mos older than ray and his game is largely predicated on athleticism and will not age anywhere near as smoothly as Ray's. If vince is the better player right now (and I don't think he is, especially good work by sully, some stuff I looked at right when I saw this), ray will quickly surpass him, all the while vince will likely be making more money. I have faith in Doc, Ray, and Management that if Allen leaves this team, it will be for a good reason

[Celtics>Breathing]

i think it's a wash. Talent wise vince can create offense better, where ray is better shooter so better off others creating.

Vince is younger and would extend the time we got.

I'd rather extend ray for 2 years at 7-8million, but if ray says no, better to do this trade then be stuck without ray next year and no vince either.

to the bolded part simply no, just no. Vince is about 18 mos older than ray and his game is largely predicated on athleticism and will not age anywhere near as smoothly as Ray's. If vince is the better player right now (and I don't think he is, especially good work by sully, some stuff I looked at right when I saw this), ray will quickly surpass him, all the while vince will likely be making more money. I have faith in Doc, Ray, and Management that if Allen leaves this team, it will be for a good reason

I don't think it's fair to label someone before they would even play a game here in Boston. I do believe most NBA people called KG a "choker" before becoming a Celtic. Not sure what would happen if VC came to Boston but don't say that you are sure you know what would happen.

[sully00]

I don't think it's fair to label someone before they would even play a game here in Boston. I do believe most NBA people called KG a "choker" before becoming a Celtic. Not sure what would happen if VC came to Boston but don't say that you are sure you know what would happen.

I don't think it is fair to just forget about what a guy has done in his career because he scores 20 ppg. Dude is made of glass and a quiter. He quit on his franchise, hell an entire country, when it comes down to it I don't really think there is anything more offensive in pro sports than what Carter did to TOR. He labeled himself.

I don't ever want to know what would happen.

[floyd]

I don't think it's fair to label someone before they would even play a game here in Boston. I do believe most NBA people called KG a "choker" before becoming a Celtic. Not sure what would happen if VC came to Boston but don't say that you are sure you know what would happen.

I don't think it is fair to just forget about what a guy has done in his career because he scores 20 ppg. Dude is made of glass and a quiter. He quit on his franchise, hell an entire country, when it comes down to it I don't really think there is anything more offensive in pro sports than what Carter did to TOR. He labeled himself.

I don't ever want to know what would happen.

Amen to that.

[Celts17Pride]

I don't think it's fair to label someone before they would even play a game here in Boston. I do believe most NBA people called KG a "choker" before becoming a Celtic. Not sure what would happen if VC came to Boston but don't say that you are sure you know what would happen.

I don't think it is fair to just forget about what a guy has done in his career because he scores 20 ppg. Dude is made of glass and a quiter. He quit on his franchise, hell an entire country, when it comes down to it I don't really think there is anything more offensive in pro sports than what Carter did to TOR. He labeled himself.

I don't ever want to know what would happen.

Amen to that.

Ditto!

[Celtics>Breathing]

I don't think it's fair to label someone before they would even play a game here in Boston. I do believe most NBA people called KG a "choker" before becoming a Celtic. Not sure what would happen if VC came to Boston but don't say that you are sure you know what would happen.

I don't think it is fair to just forget about what a guy has done in his career because he scores 20 ppg. Dude is made of glass and a quiter. He quit on his franchise, hell an entire country, when it comes down to it I don't really think there is anything more offensive in pro sports than what Carter did to TOR. He labeled himself.

I don't ever want to know what would happen.

Amen to that.

You guys sit up on your high horse and pretend that **** never went down here in Boston. Do you remember what Pierce did in 05' when we played the Pacers in the playoffs. That was one of the most unprofessional things I've ever seen in sports. The dude was acting like a 10 year old. Should he be labeled so, and so because of that? Not here in Boston with all the unrealistic homers. I'm a god damn die hard Celtics fan, but I'm realistic.

[floyd]

You guys sit up on your high horse and pretend that **** never went down here in Boston. Do you remember what Pierce did in 05' when we played the Pacers in the playoffs. That was one of the most unprofessional things I've ever seen in sports. The dude was acting like a 10 year old. Should he be labeled so, and so because of that? Not here in Boston with all the unrealistic homers. I'm a god damn die hard Celtics fan, but I'm realistic.

Pierce acted like an immature ass but he never quit on anyone and he's tough as nails. I don't know how u can compare - especially from a celtics fan.

[sully00]

I feel like I am in the twilight zone, are you kidding me? I don't even know if your talking about the Tech or the Bandage on the head one of which was dumb and the other kind of funny.

How does Paul Pierce getting a technical foul late in a game after he gets hit in the head relate to a max contract player tanking on his team to such an extent that they can no longer allow him to take the court and can get nothing of value for him in return?

You need to take the poster down.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, Vince isn't the paragon of sportsmanship, but he would be an upgrade in talent. It would be a difficult talent mesh however. He's a ball-controller, and a pretty good one, but we've already got two good ones in Paul Pierce and Rajon Rondo who are made that much better by the off-ball presence of Ray Allen. Straight up, I'd say no, but if you could land the redonkulous deal of Ray Allen and Giddens for Carter, Dooling and the #11, I'd do it. That's just too much to leave on the table. While Vince might not be the perfect fit, he's no Iverson/Maggette/Randolph, i.e. one trick ponies who can only function as the center of their basketball universes. Vince can shoot, pass, penetrate, rebound, steal the ball and fill the break. He's got the tools to be a fine support player. If utilized properly, he could make us even more difficult to defend.