Prime Larry Bird or Prime Pierce/Ray Allen

[Celtics_Champs]

neither of those guys were ever Top 5 in any SINGLE Season.

The thing that I hate about these threads, is that it totally trashes on the other players. The answer is Bird, I never saw him play, as I was young when he retired, but I know that he was the greatest. But all this stuff does is put down pierce and ray. Which is ridiculous. Pierce is one of the best celtics ever, slightly behind bird. And ray is a hall of famer too.

I'm not saying I want Pierce over Bird. Or Allen over Bird. But think before you write, no reason to trash on anyones career here.

[GuyClinch]

I think its alot less open and shut then people realize. Again Bird is from a diferent era. Players in the 80s were not as good or as athletic as they are now. And yes I was around to watch Bird play..
Before you go all crazy I challenge you to watch some old games and really tell me the bulk of the players were as good as they are now.

There are two huge factors here, IMHO. One is that in his era Bird was unquestionably superior to Pierce relative to other players. But the flip side is like Hubie Brown said I firmly believe the game has evolved.

Defense has greatly improved - and in the case of Pierce guys offensive games have greatly improved. PP would TORCH LB if he went up against him one one. LB had trouble with guys like Bernard King. PP would eat him alive. And no Bird would not kill him on offense either - PP would be very familiar with his moves and would have had good success guarding faster quicker players like Kobe.

I think people would be shocked at how well Pierce would do in this matchup. But of course its not at all fair to Bird. Had he grown up in the modern era he would have had the luxury of watching more previous greats and would be faster and stronger himself..

So its really a very impossible argument to settle. It's the same thing kind of issue with Russell. Russell was far more dominant the Bird in his day. But I would absolutely take Bird over Russell because I don't think the kind of player Russell was would dominate anymore..

But much like Bird - had Russell grown up in our era he would be like KG - not the Russell we know.

Pete

[CeltsfaninDC]

You do realize C's fans will vote overwhelming for Bird. Guys like Bird needs to adjusted for the times. Bird was the more dominant player but how would he fair in today's NBA..?

Did you actually ever see him play? Come on now....
He played against a level of opponent which many would say is better than today's watered down, no skill level, athletic NBA.

Players in the 80s were not as good or as athletic as they are now.

Dominique Wilkins says HI. You're joking, right?

[MyInsatiableOne]

Bird, and not even close. The 7 people who voted for Paul and Ray should be banned...

[GuyClinch]

Did you actually ever see him play? Come on now....
He played against a level of opponent which many would say is better than today's watered down, no skill level, athletic NBA.

Saw him live a bunch of times. Sorry but those 80's guys don't compare with the super athletic post Jordan swingmen we see today like Kobe, Pierce, Pippen etc. He was actually a so-so one on one defender. The few athletic players he fast like King were able to do very well against him. His strength was his anticipation and team defense..(and the fact he actually tried). I do agree he is more athletic then people today give him credit for. It wasn't all "brains." He had top skills. Cedric Maxwell was right when he compared him to Dirk. Though i would say Bird passed much better..but beyond that they have alot in common.

But of course Maxwell actually PLAYED with Bird. And the rest of you guys are just parrotting what your dad told you.

In the 80's D was pretty much one one stuff (very little team D) - and everyone shot over 50%. And before you go saying it was the 80s guys were more skilled.. Check the free throw percentages by era. Those have largely remained the same.


With Bird vs. Pierce you are talking about one guy with better rebounding and passing (Bird) and a guy Pierce who has better one on one skills, a better offensive game and more athleticism. On D its a tough call because whereas Bird was a super smart defender and had great anticipation. PP matches up much better vs. alot of guys one on one.

Don't get me wrong Bird was much better in his era. Actually i think McHale would fare just as well as Bird if they could be transformed into the modern era.. McHale with his length and mobility (for his size) would be well suited to the modern game. McHale would be like an Al Jefferson but with much better defense.

Pete

[Fencer reregistered]

When you suggest Actual Paul could guard Actual Larry more successfully than vice-versa, you're overdoing it. Actual Larry could shoot right over people with his high release. Pierce on defense is like a stronger Michael Cooper, and I don't recall Cooper shutting Bird down.

And if he didn't have a McHale-level teammate to already fill the post, Bird could post Pierce all day.

[drza]

Bird and it isn't close. This is basically a question of if you would rather have the MVP or two lower tier All Stars. You always take the MVP, as that is the limiting piece. There are only a few super-franchise players per generation, and if you have one and have any common sense as a GM you should be able to build a contender. Having two decent perimeter All Stars is nice and all, but if you can't add a superstar to that then you aren't winning a title.

[GuyClinch]

And if he didn't have a McHale-level teammate to already fill the post, Bird could post Pierce all day.

Bird would play PF if he played nowadays. He doesn't have the speed to stay with the modern SF. You guys greatly underestimate PP. Remember PP outplayed Lebron in a game 7. What do you think Lebron would do to a guy like Larry?!

One link we have to the different eras is MJ. Jordan played against Kobe - who has matched up with Paul Pierce. Jordan totally ripped up on the Cs. Kobe could absolutely hang with Jordan in the matchups I saw. And PP was able to shut Kobe down at times. In short PP would fare well against Bird on the offensive end. That much we can be certain about.

Pete

[vct33]

It's not even close for me. I take Larry in a heartbeat. Larry & some random MLE off-guard is much better than Pierce & Allen.

[MyInsatiableOne]

It's not even close for me. I take Larry in a heartbeat. Larry & some random MLE off-guard is much better than Pierce & Allen.

Yep...