Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

[Soup's Uncle]

I'm so relieved (knock on wood) to be rid of Etan "I can't catch" Thomas

[fishercob]

Ok, lotta thoughts. I'll try to keep them organized.

1) Miller is a 40% career three point shooter. He's never played on a good team. The Wizards are going to be an *elite* offensive team. He's a willing role player and isn't going to come in and try to "get his."

2)Perhaps Deshawn wasn't included because, when healthy he's our best perimeter defender

3) The Wiz are going to be improved on defense because of their size. They may be slow, but they're very big and are going to hold lots of team to one shot because of their improved rebounding. They're going to have to figure out how to force some missed shots though (cringes).

4) This would seem to signal an organizational belief in Blatche and McGee. This has to please a lot of people here who were clamoring for more Dray. We absolutely need him now.

5) While I wouldn't be shocked to see another mimor move, I don't expect anything big. People are overestimating the need to consolidate -- we need depth! Caron's not going to get run into the ground now that Miller is behind him. A veteran big would be nice for sure though, but Songaila is replacable, especially for the minutes we'd hope to need from him.

6) Randy Foye? Was a high lotto pick, seems like an ideal third guard if he can figure it out. Can fill it up, shoot it, play some D. He's far from a finished product, but the cat's got some definite upside.

7) We have some really nice lineup combinations:

Arenas, Stevenson, Miller, Blatche, Haywood
Foye, Miller, McGuire, Jamison, MCgee


EG and co clearly believe they have a good team and this makes them that much better. They better be right, but I tend to think they are.

I think the Wiz are going to suprise a lot of people.

[Ji]

this was the best offer we got period...and you guys would of cried bloody murder if we drafted thabeet or Jordan Hill...

I still would of preferred Curry but is he as good as Miller and Foye?

[likwitdesi]

I think they let Foye play primarily SG last year because he struggled at PG his first two years in the league. I am pretty confident that he is going to be the starter at SG to open the season and D-Mac will come off the bench. I think we are going to kind of regret missing out on Evans and Harden, because I think they are each going to be All-Stars.

What I am thinking right now is that Miller and Foye may be replacements for Butler and Young. Do the math. They play the same positions as Butler and Young and MIller and Foye can't be in a package deal for 60 days. I feel fairly confident that Phoenix would go for a Butler, Young, and Blatche for Stoudemire deal (throw in Crit if necessary). Miller, as a starter, would be a nice as a point-forward because neither Gil or Foye is a true point.

[BG3eb]

Stackhouse and filler for Miller? haha

[fishercob]

CCJ, Pech couldn't get on the court for a 19 win team. His stats are pretty meaningless given the sample size. We have ZERO credible evidence that the guy is anything other than a chucking stiff who gives great cop to Dan Steinberg. Get over Pesh.

[younggunsmn]

Miller passed up shots most of the year to find looks for other players. his shot is still there.
he battled a nagging ankle injury for a couple months which really hurt his production.
On offense he will be a great team player, especially in flip's offense, it really is tailor made for guys like him.
On defense? not so much.

don't count on much from foye. look at his shooting #'s they are horrid, and his defense is terrible at both the 1 and the 2. Plus his court vision is terrible, making him a weak point guard. He should not be getting minutes over crittenton or nick young, the only thing he is good at is occasionally getting hot from the outside.

I think this is a win-win for both clubs.
We are starting over by trading 2 expiring assets for the #5 pick, which will likely be used on a starting PG or SG, which also helps one more player we like fall to the #6 pick.
the contracts we took are not a concern, and the only one with 2 years left (songalia) is a servicable rotation player and still very tradeable. Adding 3 bigs also helps as we have no true center on our roster.

You guys instantly become a top-5 team in the east with a healthy arenas. Plus foye and especially miller are still very tradeable assets come deadline time if you are looking to move salary.

You guys do have a glut at SG though, and I could really see foye being used to move stevenson for cap savings or a big.

[WizarDynasty]

Well it's pretty much over now. Evan's was the pick that should have been made but Sacramento is going to grab him. Harden sucks. I will take Mike Miller over Harden any day of the week since everyone is in love with Harden's three point shot. Foye is a better defender than Arenas no matter how you spin it and we need someone next to arenas that can guard quick point guards and not fall off on the offense.
The only two bigmen in the draft were Hill and Mullen and no matter how you spin, other needs were still needed to be addressed.

This is what i stated days ago as our priorities.

Three major priorities for the team--we need one player with all attributes combined. You don't solve solution by acquiring two players and magically pretending that they are one player. Your starter is the most complete player and almost never needs to double team, and hopefully the other team needs to double him on offense. Ranked in priority
1. One big that has all of these attributes-High Motor, high field goal percentage, above average defensive rebounder, can block shots, can shoot from perimeter to open lane for Gil, is effective defending the pick and role. Explosive first step is a premium-, doesn't have an ego problem. All attributes need to be there.
2. Perimeter defense- A player that can guard big s/f's and has enough agility and standing reach to effectively contest a 6'8 players three point shot but has quick enough feet to guard on perimeter players such as point guards without being callled for a blocking foul, can knock down open three point shots, and can punish another team for using an undersized s/f by posting him up. Explosive First Step is a premium. All attributes need to be there otherwise he isn't worth a lottery pick.
3. A shooting guard who has the footspeed and strength to defend pg's, strong enough to defend s/f's, and has the ball handling ability to advance the ball against pressure, should be able to knock down an open three point shot. Explosive step is a must for a scoring guard.

We did upgrade our perimeter defense with extra length but I don't know about Mike's agility. i do know that i would rather see mike shooting three pointers than Caron jacking up two pointers all day hitting at the same percentage.
I think our third priority was met. Foye has the footspeed for pg and strength for sg's. He has pretty poor standing reach but he has an explosive first step and can knock down the jay.
If Blatche magically develops a high motor, our solution at powerforward is solved. But i did recognize that Jordan Hill didn't have lower leg strength needed to post on the blocks at will and Mullen's does have motivational issues.
So again, if we can figure out a way to trade Caron for Stoudemire, we are pretty set.
I still think EG screwed up by not getting Clark. That's going to haunt him for a very long time if he doesn't fulfill the teams first priority of getting a dominant offensive post bigman that is also an above average defensive rebounder with a high motor. That's been the organization number need for the last 6 years and EG still has done nothing to address it. As much as I complained about Stoudemire, I would rather have him over Mike Miller and Foye.

[LyricalRico]

Ok, lotta thoughts. I'll try to keep them organized.

1) Miller is a 40% career three point shooter. He's never played on a good team. The Wizards are going to be an *elite* offensive team. He's a willing role player and isn't going to come in and try to "get his."

2)Perhaps Deshawn wasn't included because, when healthy he's our best perimeter defender

3) The Wiz are going to be improved on defense because of their size. They may be slow, but they're very big and are going to hold lots of team to one shot because of their improved rebounding. They're going to have to figure out how to force some missed shots though (cringes).

4) This would seem to signal an organizational belief in Blatche and McGee. This has to please a lot of people here who were clamoring for more Dray. We absolutely need him now.

5) While I wouldn't be shocked to see another mimor move, I don't expect anything big. People are overestimating the need to consolidate -- we need depth! Caron's not going to get run into the ground now that Miller is behind him. A veteran big would be nice for sure though, but Songaila is replacable, especially for the minutes we'd hope to need from him.

6) Randy Foye? Was a high lotto pick, seems like an ideal third guard if he can figure it out. Can fill it up, shoot it, play some D. He's far from a finished product, but the cat's got some definite upside.

7) We have some really nice lineup combinations:

Arenas, Stevenson, Miller, Blatche, Haywood
Foye, Miller, McGuire, Jamison, MCgee


EG and co clearly believe they have a good team and this makes them that much better. They better be right, but I tend to think they are.

I think the Wiz are going to suprise a lot of people.

Great stuff. The more I think about this deal, the more I like it and for exactly the reasons you describe. Our size plus Flip's zone schemes should make us at least average on defense (which is worlds better than what we were under EJ). But now we've actually got options when the Big Three sit (which they can actually do now).

And I don't think it's fair to compare this deal to other "rumors" we may have discussed. If those other deals were actually on the table, EG would have made them. Obviously they weren't and he felt that this move would have been better then whoever they planned to pick at #5. If you don't like the deal, then I think what you're really saying is that you don't like the overall situation of being screwed in the lottery during a weak draft. I think Grunfeld probably played this about as well as he could have.

[Rafael122]

Just to answer the question about "is Foye better than the 5th pick?" Yes.

Dat has broken out his tier groups. Basically, what I take from that is Griffin and everyone else. I have soured on Rubio, from reading reports of his workouts and all that, he basically sounds like Juan Carlos Navarro part two.

Evans' jumpshot is awful.

Curry is rail thin, and will probably be abused by guards 40 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller than he is.

We don't need Thabeet, we don't need Jennings, and I'm not enamored by Harden's athleticism.

So yes, you put Foye in this draft, and he's a top 5 pick. Undersized? Sure, but if healthy, he could be a very dangerous guy off the bench.

I'm not saying this trade is awesome and it will lead us to a ring. All I'm saying is, its a solid move. I wanted Amare, but if it can't be done, it can't be done.

[WashWiz54]

Hmm....

How the heck will the rotation work?

PG- Arenas (35), Foye (13)
SG- Young (26), Foye (13), Miller (9)
SF- Butler (32), Miller (16)
PF- Jamison (34), Blatche (14)
C- Haywood (30) McGee (10) Blatche (8)

With McGuire as a defensive specialist when needed?


I was wishing for Amare but grateful we got a good return so no complaining here. Foye is really nice, and I have a feeling he'll do really well for us this coming season.

This could also mean Butler IS available now and Amare could be a potential suitor for us. I just really hope we have a premier PF or at least a hard-nose backup by seasons start.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, Pech couldn't get on the court for a 19 win team. His stats are pretty meaningless given the sample size. We have ZERO credible evidence that the guy is anything other than a chucking stiff who gives great cop to Dan Steinberg. Get over Pesh.

Bargnani was worse up until this season, when Sam Mitchell got fired.

I think Pecherov has gone from a jump shooting team with absolutely no inside presence offensively to a team with one guy who is among the best inside, and it's going to make a big difference. Now Pecherov sitting outside jacking threes will be just what the doctor ordered for Al Jefferson being doubled inside.

And if Pecherov is the stiff he's been up til now, remember, I wanted Millsap with that pick (the same way I want Blair now).

[Kanyewest]

Ok, lotta thoughts. I'll try to keep them organized.

1) Miller is a 40% career three point shooter. He's never played on a good team. The Wizards are going to be an *elite* offensive team. He's a willing role player and isn't going to come in and try to "get his."

2)Perhaps Deshawn wasn't included because, when healthy he's our best perimeter defender

3) The Wiz are going to be improved on defense because of their size. They may be slow, but they're very big and are going to hold lots of team to one shot because of their improved rebounding. They're going to have to figure out how to force some missed shots though (cringes).

4) This would seem to signal an organizational belief in Blatche and McGee. This has to please a lot of people here who were clamoring for more Dray. We absolutely need him now.

5) While I wouldn't be shocked to see another mimor move, I don't expect anything big. People are overestimating the need to consolidate -- we need depth! Caron's not going to get run into the ground now that Miller is behind him. A veteran big would be nice for sure though, but Songaila is replacable, especially for the minutes we'd hope to need from him.

6) Randy Foye? Was a high lotto pick, seems like an ideal third guard if he can figure it out. Can fill it up, shoot it, play some D. He's far from a finished product, but the cat's got some definite upside.

7) We have some really nice lineup combinations:

Arenas, Stevenson, Miller, Blatche, Haywood
Foye, Miller, McGuire, Jamison, MCgee


EG and co clearly believe they have a good team and this makes them that much better. They better be right, but I tend to think they are.

I think the Wiz are going to suprise a lot of people.

Good post. I agree with everything except #1, that Miller did play on a decent team. Miller did play on Grizzlies which made it to the playoffs 3 years. Unfortunately for them, they had the pleasure of playing the Spurs, Suns (who made it to the WCF), and Mavericks(the team that made it to the finals). Nonetheless, Miller showed that he could contribute to a winning team and its early but it looks like the Wizards have more talent.

[Optms]

Hmm....

How the heck will the rotation work?

PG- Arenas (35), Foye (13)
SG- Young (26), Foye (13), Miller (9)
SF- Butler (32), Miller (16)
PF- Jamison (34), Blatche (14)
C- Haywood (30) McGee (10) Blatche (8)

With McGuire as a defensive specialist when needed?


I was wishing for Amare but grateful we got a good return so no complaining here. Foye is really nice, and I have a feeling he'll do really well for us this coming season.

This could also mean Butler IS available now and Amare could be a potential suitor for us. I just really hope we have a premier PF or at least a hard-nose backup by seasons start.

Butler is definitely available, however I'm not so sure Phoenix would consider actually proposing another deal to Washington without the 5th pick out of Washington's hands now. But a deal somewhere along the lines of Amare for Butler, Young and Blatch is very realistic I think.

[WizarDynasty]

Hmm....

How the heck will the rotation work?

PG- Arenas (35), Foye (13)
SG- Young (26), Foye (13), Miller (9)
SF- Butler (32), Miller (16)
PF- Jamison (34), Blatche (14)
C- Haywood (30) McGee (10) Blatche (8)

With McGuire as a defensive specialist when needed?


I was wishing for Amare but grateful we got a good return so no complaining here. Foye is really nice, and I have a feeling he'll do really well for us this coming season.

This could also mean Butler IS available now and Amare could be a potential suitor for us. I just really hope we have a premier PF or at least a hard-nose backup by seasons start.

Amare is definitely available, however I'm not so sure Phoenix would consider actually proposing another deal to Washington without the 5th pick out of Washington's hands now. But a deal somewhere along the lines of Amare for Butler, Young and Blatch is very realistic I think.

there is no way we give up young and blatche for an expiring Amare. I see us maybe doing Critt and Butler and our high second rounder which is basically a late first.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, Pech couldn't get on the court for a 19 win team. His stats are pretty meaningless given the sample size. We have ZERO credible evidence that the guy is anything other than a chucking stiff who gives great cop to Dan Steinberg. Get over Pesh.

Niether could Blatche or Young, but both had better +/- on/off differntials than Butler or Jamison.

How much worse could the Wizards have been with Pecherov getting 39-40 minutes and 20 shots at PF or C? All the time Darius and Antawn got on a 19-win team just shows how bring Grunfeld, Jordan, and Tapscott were at the end of the day as far as I'm concerned.

[fishercob]

More lineups:
Gil, McGuire, Jamison, Blatche, Haywood
Gil, Foye, McGuire, Jamison, McGee

Depth!

[Benjammin]

Nate, would you put up an updated salary cap/luxury tax chart for the Wizards after these moves? In my rough calculations with an estimated 70-71 million luxury tax threshold, the Wizards should be under that (depending upon other moves) or am I missing something?

[Optms]

Hmm....

How the heck will the rotation work?

PG- Arenas (35), Foye (13)
SG- Young (26), Foye (13), Miller (9)
SF- Butler (32), Miller (16)
PF- Jamison (34), Blatche (14)
C- Haywood (30) McGee (10) Blatche (8)

With McGuire as a defensive specialist when needed?


I was wishing for Amare but grateful we got a good return so no complaining here. Foye is really nice, and I have a feeling he'll do really well for us this coming season.

This could also mean Butler IS available now and Amare could be a potential suitor for us. I just really hope we have a premier PF or at least a hard-nose backup by seasons start.

Amare is definitely available, however I'm not so sure Phoenix would consider actually proposing another deal to Washington without the 5th pick out of Washington's hands now. But a deal somewhere along the lines of Amare for Butler, Young and Blatch is very realistic I think.

there is no way we give up young and blatche for an expiring Amare.

If Phoenix could get him to sign an extension then I would have no issue with it. I'd actually pull the trigger on that deal if I was Washington. Perhaps even if Amare comes without the extenion. Things can change. If he were to come to Washington and the team somehow manages to pull off a Championship out of there ass the first year, then Stoudemire definitely is staying here.

On second thought however, I'm not so sure EG would actually give away one of his beloved "big 3." But I'm not one to say never.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Good deal because we dumped Etan and Darius.

Now we need to put together a package for Amare